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Author Topic: Legality of a ball in league play - Question  (Read 5437 times)

thirtyclean

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Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« on: January 12, 2012, 12:19:53 AM »
Was bowling in league last night and a guy shot 300 against us with a Storm Frantic. Being a ball driller for over 10 years, I always like looking at the rack and seing the different drillings, especially when I like the way the ball is rolling for a bowler. I looked at the drilling, and the CG was maybe a 1/2 inch away from the bowlers ring finger (RH) and the pin was maybe 2 inches above the ring, and the weight hole was basically pushing that CG I believe in to it being illegal. Now, I understand there is mislabeling and very low top weights on some balls. Have any of you ball drillers ever called out a bowler in league or questioned a drilling in league play. Does anyone even care unless something is noticed. Another question, can you question or call out a bowler in league competition. Is it even worth the trouble. I know CG is not supposed to matter as much, but unless you are in a tournament, balls are not checked for leaglity anymore. I mentioned it to the league secretary, he kind of chuckled, but nothing came of it. I was wondering if anyone ever ran into a similar situation. 


Thirtyclean
2011 - 12  Lineup (Nuts, OMG Pearl, Wisdom, Bank Pearl, Hammer Arson)
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storm making it rain

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2012, 08:39:52 AM »
Tough to tell really, i've seen some balls that just by looks could possibly be "illegal" but there's also too many variables to know without putting it on a scale.  just from your example (without seeing the ball in person) maybe the ring finger was drilled alot deeper or the CG was possibly mismarked.

 

Drilling my own equipment I personally make sure they are "legal", but the only other time they would get weighed out is at nationals every year.  I had a buddy of mine throwing a Cell and the CG was kicked out like 2.5" and turned out being perfectly fine after i put it on the scale.

 

 


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thirtyclean

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2012, 08:47:05 AM »
I checked the rule, and if the bowler did not have prior knowledge of the ball being illegal, it wuld just have to be fixed before able to be used again in competition, but know action would be taken for scores already bowled with the ball.


Thirtyclean
2011 - 12  Lineup (Nuts, OMG Pearl, Wisdom, Bank Pearl, Hammer Arson)
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Thirtyclean

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2012, 08:48:47 AM »
Assuming it WAS illegal, I still don't think it's worth worrying about. The effect on the overall ball motion was probably so small that I tend to believe that the bowler and the ball were just matching up well. Maybe the finger holes were deep enough to keep it within legal limits...
 


Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Allstar Lanes
Brunswick Regional Staff
 
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
 

 
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Xx 12 X 300 xX

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2012, 10:06:03 AM »
Finger hole depth is key here.  People assume now a days that any ball with the CG to the right hand side (RH bowler) means the ball needs a weight hole.  Many people do not like weight holes so you can just drill the finger holes deeper.   This can also be a ball reaction trick as well, as some people like ball reactions without the holes, or want to use the hole later to change the ball reaction.   Also the starting weights of the ball might allow the ball to be drilled with the CG way out without a hole as well.   There are a few variables here.
 
You see and hear this from time to time, they only way your going to know is if you weigh out the ball.    
 
 


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buried7pin

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2012, 10:28:54 AM »
 It's like calling out a sandbagger, its nearly impossible to prove and you look like an idiot if you call some one out about it.

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strikeking

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2012, 11:53:03 AM »
Years ago I bowled against a "back-up" ball bowler who was throwing what I thought had to be illegal because of the lay-out and the action that he was getting with the ball. I ran my own pro shop and know something about what should be legal. I had him take the ball to the in-house pro shop and from then on it was a farce. I soon realized that the operator of the shop was the one who had drilled the ball. Needless to say, but that ball never did get checked.  Now I think it's best to just say nothing. If someone is cheating it's not worth the effort to call him out and cause ill feelings. HE knows he's cheating!!! Same goes for "sandbagging.


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kidlost2000

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2012, 12:14:52 PM »
Many of USBC rules are a joke. If someone is correct in what they posted about the USBC rules which does sound correct, basically USBC doesn't care about taking scores away.
 
The only place a ball is checked for legal static weights is PBA events and USBC Nationals. Many bowlers every year have their bowling balls fixed or corrected for illegal weights when getting weighed at Nationals. Bowling balls they have used for no telling how long. Many that have shot several honor scores with "illegal" bowling ball static weights.
 
In all actuality STATIC WEIGHTS DO NOT MATTER in todays world of bowling when it comes to the ball ever being checked for any leagues, honor scores and the vast majority of tournaments. Many league secretaries never even look at the ball, they just tell the bowler to write the ball manufacture and name on the score sheet. This is your USBC.


"1 of 1." 
 
Edited by kidlost2000 on 1/12/2012 at 1:15 PM
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milorafferty

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2012, 12:25:21 PM »
Yea, I have had the same ball corrected twice. I Vegas I was using a new Virtual Gravity and it had a half ounce too much finger weight, so they corrected it. In Reno the following year, the ball weighed out just fine. But last year in Reno, the thumb weight was too high, so they had to correct that. The ball didn't roll any different.
 
kidlost2000 wrote on 1/12/2012 1:14 PM:
Many of USBC rules are a joke. If someone is correct in what they posted about the USBC rules which does sound correct, basically USBC doesn't care about taking scores away.
 
The only place a ball is checked for legal static weights is PBA events and USBC Nationals. Many bowlers every year have their bowling balls fixed or corrected for illegal weights when getting weighed at Nationals. Bowling balls they have used for no telling how long. Many that have shot several honor scores with "illegal" bowling ball static weights.
 
In all actuality STATIC WEIGHTS DO NOT MATTER in todays world of bowling when it comes to the ball ever being checked for any leagues, honor scores and the vast majority of tournaments. Many league secretaries never even look at the ball, they just tell the bowler to write the ball manufacture and name on the score sheet. This is your USBC.


"1 of 1." 
 
Edited by kidlost2000 on 1/12/2012 at 1:15 PM
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Bill Thomas

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2012, 02:18:13 PM »
milo,

 

Was it the ball or the guy who weighed it.  I had a ball turned down one year in Reno.  Took it to the Storm booth who said there was noting wrong but removed the amount of finger weight that USBC insisted was too much.  Took the ball back the next day and USBC (same guy) said it still had the same amount of excess finger weight.  After some discussion with a supervisor USBC said the ball was legal and let me use it.  That's the reason for my question to you.


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milorafferty

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2012, 02:22:19 PM »
In Vegas, it was the ball. The reason I say that is the one guy used the electronic scales originally, then the guy who was making it legal weighed it on the manual scale, so I think it was just a tad finger heavy when it was originally drilled. 
 
In Reno, I think it was just the guy who weighed it. I didn't complain either way though. I'm not a good enough bowler for a 1/4 oz or so to make a difference. LOL 
Bill Thomas wrote on 1/13/2012 3:18 PM:
milo,

 

Was it the ball or the guy who weighed it.  I had a ball turned down one year in Reno.  Took it to the Storm booth who said there was noting wrong but removed the amount of finger weight that USBC insisted was too much.  Took the ball back the next day and USBC (same guy) said it still had the same amount of excess finger weight.  After some discussion with a supervisor USBC said the ball was legal and let me use it.  That's the reason for my question to you.


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1fife

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2012, 07:13:11 PM »
could have low top weight

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TDC57

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2012, 08:36:20 PM »
In Vegas, I had a ball that didn't weigh out correctly even though my ball driller makes sure all balls are legal when they leave the shop. I didn't argue but the funny thing was the guy who weighed it said  "do you want me to fix it or do you just want to keep it for league?" I think that pretty much sums up how much the USBC cares about if a ball is legal for league action.


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ithinkican

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2012, 11:13:42 PM »
it could be illegal. but it sounds like the ball may have had a 2.5-3.5 inch pin. and if i have it pictured in my mind correctly. the ball that he is throwing doesnt have much top weight from the start. so it shouldnt have to have a balance hole if im not mistaken. there are too many variables to tell. but i can assure you that if this guy can roll a 300 with that ball, i can guarantee that he has it legal for tournaments too.


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Pat Patterson

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Re: Legality of a ball in league play - Question
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2012, 11:16:47 PM »

 I had the same thing happen to me in Vegas too.  Had a Lane Masters Sure Strike that "Apparently" had too much side weight, at home prior to leaving it weighed out at 1/2 oz positive side.   The guy said it would be legal for league play, but if I wanted to use it in the tourney I would need a weight hole to remove the side weight.  Had him take out the appropriate amount, acccording to him removed so I could use there.  When i got home I had it re-weighed and it had "0" side weight, which tells me their scale was off by at least 1/2 oz IMHO.



TDC57 wrote on 1/13/2012 9:36 PM:
In Vegas, I had a ball that didn't weigh out correctly even though my ball driller makes sure all balls are legal when they leave the shop. I didn't argue but the funny thing was the guy who weighed it said  "do you want me to fix it or do you just want to keep it for league?" I think that pretty much sums up how much the USBC cares about if a ball is legal for league action.




Pat Patterson
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