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Author Topic: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling  (Read 36092 times)

Gizmo823

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Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« on: March 04, 2013, 07:49:05 AM »
I recently wrote a letter to USBC concerning my opinions on the current state of bowling that I thought I'd share with everyone.  I actually got a response, and just about word for word what I expected, but at least an actual human read my letter and replied.  Here is the letter, their response, and then I'll finish up:

This is an open letter to whom it may concern reflecting my opinions and comments regarding the state of bowling as a whole as well as a widely perceived view on how the USBC is only serving to further destroy the sport so many of us love and have already begun to mourn.  I will however begin by saying that the USBC Open Championships represents everything that is right with the sport of bowling.  The challenge, the venues, the organization, the execution, the resources, etc., every part of "Nationals" is so expertly crafted that even some of the best bowlers in the world make a point to come compete.  That, unfortunately, is where it ends, and could one day be lost as bowling as a whole continues to decline.  It is incredibly irresponsible of USBC to be so out of touch with league bowling, the very foundation of the sport.  I read a published article regarding fresh oil for every squad at the 2013 Open Championships, finally correcting the only problem I believe the event had.  It referenced a quote from someone regarding having one pattern for the team event and a different pattern for singles and doubles, effectively saying that USBC wanted to challenge their bowlers' versatility.  I found it to be one of the most hypocritical statements or comments I have ever come across.  USBC's specifications and limits regarding legal lane conditions are so wide open that thousands of league bowlers who never practice can show up to league once a week, shoot 750 with the only ball they own, and go home without so much as a thought.  These are the same people that post 230+ averages during the league season, only to show up to the Open Championships to shoot 1500 for all events, and go home with their tails between their legs.  The idea that making tighter restrictions on lane conditions would only serve to further drive away bowlers and hurt revenue for center owners is ludicrous, as USBC membership has fallen from approximately 9 million to 1.7 million in a little over a decade, corresponding with ever increasing numbers of "honor scores" and member averages.  When scoring was harder, people spent money practicing, centers were full for early AND late leagues every night of the week.  This has made the future for our youth bowlers dismal, and has driven away the majority of the truly skilled bowlers.  The quality of coaches has declined, combined with the fact that it's impossible to convince a kid they made a bad shot even though they struck.  If youth bowlers are putting up numbers on easy shots, they believe they are good, and become hard to coach.  Then when they start competing in Junior Gold or PBA Experience leagues, they become discouraged fast, and when they are ready to be coached, more often than not, their game has to be completely torn down and rebuilt.  There was a youth in my city recently who shot his "first" 800.  He is not skilled, and not accurate.  He is a no thumb bowler who simply throws a lot of revs and a lot of speed, and on a legal USBC pattern, all he really has to do is keep the ball right of the headpin to strike.  This past summer, he, like a lot of the city high school bowlers, joined our summer PBA Experience league.  He proceeded to shoot 354 for the entire 3 game set the first night of league on the Cheetah pattern, following which he packed up his equipment and never came back.  This is the kind of bowler the USBC is creating.  I used to believe my "accomplishments" were earned and worth something, now I realize they aren't worth any more than the metal the rings are made out of, which is in fact so cheap that they are impossible to resize.  All my work, my effort, what I've learned, it's all meaningless.  I have been a pro shop operator for 7 years now, and I would consider my knowledge, experience, and skill to be very high, yet the process of selecting a ball, watching the bowler, and crafting a layout and surface prep for most USBC sanctioned lane conditions is needless.  I can pick any ball off the wall, "label" drill it, never touch the surface, put holes in it, and whoever I drill it for will be "successful."  People in their 60's and 70's are reaching scores they have never seen before.  It's more surprising to hear that someone has NOT achieved "perfection" now than to hear that they have.  USBC is supposed to be the governing body for sanctioned competition, but all it serves to do is drive people elsewhere for real competition or real challenge.  Bowling is no longer a sport, or even a game, it is a recreation, where people gather in attempts to record obscene numbers or merely occupy them while they drink and socialize.  Any activity that requires zero practice and little effort to achieve "perfection" will eventually cease to exist.  I have put my life into bowling, and in turn it nearly became my life, but no longer.  I am ashamed to be a USBC member, and to be associated with the laughingstock that this recreation of sanctioned bowling has become.  The amount of money and time that has to be put into obtaining "available" coaching certifications, or to attend "available" tournaments or events is staggering, and the opportunity to prepare for these things doesn't exist for most of us.  The USBC is turning a blind, uncaring, ignorant eye to the most important things in bowling, while raising sanction fees at the same time.  Charging me admission to view the destruction of a sport I have put my life into is unacceptable.  For the first time in several years, I will not attend the Open Championships, simply because I have zero opportunities to practice on tougher conditions to prepare in the months leading up to the tournament.  The attitude the USBC has towards the sport is wholly irresponsible.  I can serve my kids cake for supper, but make vegetables available, which do you think they will choose?  Bowling is not on the rise, it continues to fall, and the focus and effort is completely in the wrong direction.  Making coaching and affordable equipment available and teaching a golfer how to putt makes little difference if the greens they play on funnel down towards the hole.  The USBC is singularly to blame for the current state of bowling, and it disgusts me.  Thank you for your time.

The response:
I appreciate your feedback and your membership. Your email illustrates a challenging issue the industry faces. USBC’s role in controlling lane conditions are a controversial subject and one that draws out many strong opinions. While you make a good argument for a mandating lower scoring lane conditions, there are enforcement and compliance challenges on the other side. USBC’s Sport Bowling program attempts to provide an option for those bowlers/centers who want the challenge you seek. I realize this is not a perfect solution as many communities do not have a center that offers Sport Bowling leagues.

 

I respect your passion for the sport and have no doubt your opinions come from a desire to improve bowling. I do want to clarify your implication that USBC has been raising dues. USBC national dues are $10 and have not increased since 2006.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write.

 

Best regards,

Jason Overstreet

USBC Communications


First of all regarding the league dues, a few years ago our dues rose from $15 to $17, apparently our local association raised their fee and blamed it on USBC, so I wasn't very happy about that, I definitely would not have stuck that in my letter if I'd have known.  The point of the letter wasn't to throw USBC under the bus, but this is honestly the way I believe it is.  I knew I would get something back about the challenges of enforcement, but here's the deal.  The USBC let it get out of control years ago when they were more concerned about an ounce of sideweight in a ball than about the ball itself, or about regulating the oil patterns.  The PBA figured this out 15 or more years ago, why didn't the USBC?  So maybe the current people in power at the USBC didn't have anything to do with it, but the organization itself is completely responsible.  Regarding the challenges though, as I said in the letter, I've worked in the bowling industry for 7 years now, I very well understand all the challenges and issues, I'm not just writing the letter crying about things without having a very knowledgeable and objective viewpoint.  Honestly though, they're going to have to do something, and here's the real point of contention.  Center owners will fight tougher conditions because they think they'll lose business.  Well, they have already lost business for years.  A real simple solution here, make conditions tougher for the sanctioned leagues.  If you don't want a tougher shot, don't bowl a sanctioned league.  What does sanctioning really do for you?  Gives you some trinkets, and allows you to use your average in tournaments for potential handicap.  People wouldn't quit bowling if they were told their league wouldn't be sanctioned, they would see it as a way to save fees every year.  Most people don't bowl tournaments anymore.  But of course, this would really hurt the USBC.  So instead of really governing the sport and enforcing the rules, they're content to just let things slip away while they say, "oh, well we offer a bunch of stuff."  Rant off. 
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Joe Cool

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #106 on: April 05, 2013, 12:47:09 PM »
To the poster who commented about Bob Benoit and that he should win 9 out of 10 every time.

You are probably right, he should.  However, I would say, once he started dominating  brackets, or tournaments at that level, at least in our area, there would be none for him to dominate as no one would get in.

Case in point, we have a traveling tournament team of 10 guys.  Normally when we bowl team event, we have 3-5 guys that will get in $100 of brackets each.  This year when we walked into a squad in a certain tournament, we see most of team USA is bowling on our squad.  We all got in $20 worth of brackets.  We won nothing. 

We know we are on the 2nd tier.  Why donate to their profits?

People do it at Nationals every year.  50% of people shouldn't even bother going, but they do.
Hit the pocket and hope for the best

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #107 on: April 05, 2013, 01:55:42 PM »
Okay, I am on some pain pills right now so I am kind of loopy and this makes sense to me now but I may reconsider this later after the pills wear off.  : )

All THS is is handicap for the above average bowler.  The THS doesn't really help the lower average bowlers as much because they are not as accurate or consistant enough to take much advantage of it.  Plus, they may not be knowledgeable enough to even know how to play the lanes to get that help.  It does help the bowlers who, if this were 50 years ago, would be averaging 170-190 and now with the THS, can average over 200. This is the group of bowlers who are getting the handicap help of the THS.  I am included in this group.


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Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #108 on: April 05, 2013, 03:06:34 PM »
Okay, I am on some pain pills right now so I am kind of loopy and this makes sense to me now but I may reconsider this later after the pills wear off.  : )

All THS is is handicap for the above average bowler.  The THS doesn't really help the lower average bowlers as much because they are not as accurate or consistant enough to take much advantage of it.  Plus, they may not be knowledgeable enough to even know how to play the lanes to get that help.  It does help the bowlers who, if this were 50 years ago, would be averaging 170-190 and now with the THS, can average over 200. This is the group of bowlers who are getting the handicap help of the THS.  I am included in this group.

Ding ding ding!  We have a winner! 
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Steven

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #109 on: April 05, 2013, 04:15:59 PM »
I like the description of the THS being handicap for the higher average bowler. But if it applies to all and the overall pecking order is still intact, who cares?

I've yet to run into this mythical creature who dominates sport shots but gets owned in THS league competition. If you have the speed control, revs, accuracy and spare making skills to dominate on Sport, you're going to dominate on the THS. There might be a few nipping at your heels, but you should still be top dog averaging 240+.

So what's the issue?  I'm asking this honestly. I bowl challenge leagues, and I've won several scratch sport shot tournaments, so I feel I have a grasp of both sides of the fence. I'm still a hack above all else, so I want to understand the thinking here.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 04:20:28 PM by Steven »

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #110 on: April 06, 2013, 03:22:19 PM »
I like the description of the THS being handicap for the higher average bowler. But if it applies to all and the overall pecking order is still intact, who cares?

I've yet to run into this mythical creature who dominates sport shots but gets owned in THS league competition. If you have the speed control, revs, accuracy and spare making skills to dominate on Sport, you're going to dominate on the THS. There might be a few nipping at your heels, but you should still be top dog averaging 240+.

So what's the issue?  I'm asking this honestly. I bowl challenge leagues, and I've won several scratch sport shot tournaments, so I feel I have a grasp of both sides of the fence. I'm still a hack above all else, so I want to understand the thinking here.

I don't think there's a sport king that gets completely owned . . but when you're used to winning 9 out of 10 games on sport, then go to 6 or 7 out of 10 when carry is the most important thing, it can FEEL like getting owned.  And if you think about it differently, the more accurate bowler will wear out their line more quickly due to removing the oil from the same 1 or 2 boards over and over again.  On a sport pattern, it's a very simple 1 or 2 board move left to find more head oil while still bumping your track in the mids, and getting a spare or two for a couple frames in a row while you're lining up again won't hurt much.  The guy that uses 4 or 5 boards will have his shot most of the night on a house shot, and a couple spares for the guy that has to move may result in quickly losing that game. 

There's also styles to think about here.  You can't expect everyone to be completely perfectly versatile.  If you have a guy with a very inside out shot, they may destroy sport patterns and actually struggle on house shots.  Where they're used to the stability through the middle of the lane, and some oil on the outside to get the ball to push and set it up for a good entry angle, you get nothing but push through the middle on a house shot, making the ball rev or transition later, so the ball may never make the corner through the middle, and trying to bump the dry on the outside at 35-40 feet where there's normally oil may be a problem for some guys. 

Rick Benoit lives here in town, and when he was working for Brunswick, we would have the pro staffers out here every summer to work with him for a couple weeks before the PBA tournaments would start up.  Guys like Sean Rash and Parker would absolutely destroy the house shot, and guys like Mika and Angelo actually had a little trouble on it.  Parker could ride the dry all the way down, and Rash was really good at bouncing the dry outside, but getting it to ride it for a few extra feet.  Mika's loft and angle was problematic, it was flat 10, or if he would move outside, overhook.  Angelo was about the same way, but his slower speed helped him slow hook it.  Now, as soon as they all got on sport patterns, it was over, they all did really well.  Angelo hasn't had the success that the other 3 have had, but after seeing him up close several years in a row, I'm not sure why.  They bowled with our scratch league one year, and Mika I think shot 630ish, while guys in the league were putting up 730s.  The next night, they took the top 10 averages in our scratch league and had a little exhibition on PBA shots (1 game on Shark and 1 game on Chameleon), and I was one of 2 guys out of the 10 that averaged over 200, while the pros were all over 230.   All the big shots that were getting big heads about beating Mika the night before weren't saying a whole lot after that exhibition. 

That's my take anyway. 
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Centers

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #111 on: April 06, 2013, 04:51:02 PM »
I read your letter to USBC, I'm happy that USBC responded to your letter, shows that they are aware of the situation but they are in a hard spot.  They can mandate a specific lane pattern for everyone to use, but 50% of the people wont like it.  They can come up with another pattern, and the other 50% of the people wont like that one. 

Here is my solution and we are doing it here in Tucson.  We have a scratch league where I believe 90%+ of the league believes in harder shots, less concerned of honor scores/averaging 230+, less on their EGO.  This season we decided to use 4 different patterns.  We used the house pattern for the first 9, blue pattern on the second 9, nationals d/s pattern on the 3rd 9, and we are getting ready to use the Kegel Beaten Path pattern.  Next year we will use Kegel patterns to keep things interesting and challenging. Most bowlers are well below THS average atleast 10 pins.  Bowlers realize their game isn't what they think it is.  There is always something for them to work on, but most importantly everyone recognize that the sport needs a change!  By the way, we are not sport certified.  Those averages will be used in City/State tournaments.  Its the only way to compete and make any money in these tournaments.  Its a "TRUE" average.

If we as bowlers don't do anything about it, who else will?  Our local association doesn't care what we do, the houses do somewhat care as long as they get their money, but us bowlers have to control the sport.  You have to get bowlers on board for the cause, for the future of the kids.  I believe Saturday mornings should be for kids, but we also need to show the kids what bowling should be after their youth.  If they want to bowl Nationals and have a chance, why not put the patterns out for them in league play?  I wish I had that opportunity when I was younger, all I had were house shots and it was all about bending the ball. 

Talk to your peers, get them involved.  Letters to USBC is a start but the bowlers need to get things started.  Get the junior programs involved.  I hate watching kids average 215+ on THS, when we can get them prepared a little more by throwing a challenge to them. 

kidlost2000

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #112 on: April 07, 2013, 06:46:38 AM »
Way to many post on here to care. Bowling is about money. Money for the centers and money for USBC. Integrity is not a factor when money is at stake. Bowling is down in popular as a sign of the times. The game has fallen behind and no condition regulation or ball regulations will change that.

Enforcement is another real factor.

Many of todays bowling centers do not meet the requirements set by the USBC for legal lanes. They are only required to have a pair of lanes meet the guidelines every year when inspected in order to be certified another year.

Is that integrity? No not by any means. If they enforced the rules then that would mean many centers lose their certification and then a loss of revenue for the center and USBC.

See how the USBC wouldn't want that to happen. It is bowling, no matter how you think it matters so much it really doesn't. The less you think about it and get upset over the things that will not and cannot be change the happier you will be.

…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Bill Thomas

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #113 on: April 07, 2013, 08:32:43 AM »
I really don't understand why any bowling center would have to cheat to provide today's  high scores.  When ABC/USBC passed the 3 unit rule, they in effect made lane blocking legal.  Any center that can not put out a "legal block" with the 3 unit rule doesn't know squat about lane conditioning
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 04:07:54 PM by Bill Thomas »

Long Gone Daddy

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #114 on: April 07, 2013, 01:50:27 PM »
I read your letter to USBC, I'm happy that USBC responded to your letter, shows that they are aware of the situation but they are in a hard spot.  They can mandate a specific lane pattern for everyone to use, but 50% of the people wont like it.  They can come up with another pattern, and the other 50% of the people wont like that one. 

Here is my solution and we are doing it here in Tucson.  We have a scratch league where I believe 90%+ of the league believes in harder shots, less concerned of honor scores/averaging 230+, less on their EGO.  This season we decided to use 4 different patterns.  We used the house pattern for the first 9, blue pattern on the second 9, nationals d/s pattern on the 3rd 9, and we are getting ready to use the Kegel Beaten Path pattern.  Next year we will use Kegel patterns to keep things interesting and challenging. Most bowlers are well below THS average atleast 10 pins.  Bowlers realize their game isn't what they think it is.  There is always something for them to work on, but most importantly everyone recognize that the sport needs a change!  By the way, we are not sport certified.  Those averages will be used in City/State tournaments.  Its the only way to compete and make any money in these tournaments.  Its a "TRUE" average.

If we as bowlers don't do anything about it, who else will?  Our local association doesn't care what we do, the houses do somewhat care as long as they get their money, but us bowlers have to control the sport.  You have to get bowlers on board for the cause, for the future of the kids.  I believe Saturday mornings should be for kids, but we also need to show the kids what bowling should be after their youth.  If they want to bowl Nationals and have a chance, why not put the patterns out for them in league play?  I wish I had that opportunity when I was younger, all I had were house shots and it was all about bending the ball. 

Talk to your peers, get them involved.  Letters to USBC is a start but the bowlers need to get things started.  Get the junior programs involved.  I hate watching kids average 215+ on THS, when we can get them prepared a little more by throwing a challenge to them.
Exactly what our league did.  Kegel challenge patterns only.  People averaging 20 pins less than THS league averages.  Guess what?  League thrives, people have fun, people shake their heads and say "man, I gotta get better at this", no tantrums, no demands the shot get easier.  Why?  Because everybody is on the same playing field.  Averages are relative.  Like I said, the only people that get bent about "easy" shots are the ones that think they are better than they are and they get beat by somebody they don't deem as worthy.  Big freaking joke.  OP and those like him are going to be why people quit.   
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #115 on: April 08, 2013, 08:07:08 AM »
I read your letter to USBC, I'm happy that USBC responded to your letter, shows that they are aware of the situation but they are in a hard spot.  They can mandate a specific lane pattern for everyone to use, but 50% of the people wont like it.  They can come up with another pattern, and the other 50% of the people wont like that one. 

Here is my solution and we are doing it here in Tucson.  We have a scratch league where I believe 90%+ of the league believes in harder shots, less concerned of honor scores/averaging 230+, less on their EGO.  This season we decided to use 4 different patterns.  We used the house pattern for the first 9, blue pattern on the second 9, nationals d/s pattern on the 3rd 9, and we are getting ready to use the Kegel Beaten Path pattern.  Next year we will use Kegel patterns to keep things interesting and challenging. Most bowlers are well below THS average atleast 10 pins.  Bowlers realize their game isn't what they think it is.  There is always something for them to work on, but most importantly everyone recognize that the sport needs a change!  By the way, we are not sport certified.  Those averages will be used in City/State tournaments.  Its the only way to compete and make any money in these tournaments.  Its a "TRUE" average.

If we as bowlers don't do anything about it, who else will?  Our local association doesn't care what we do, the houses do somewhat care as long as they get their money, but us bowlers have to control the sport.  You have to get bowlers on board for the cause, for the future of the kids.  I believe Saturday mornings should be for kids, but we also need to show the kids what bowling should be after their youth.  If they want to bowl Nationals and have a chance, why not put the patterns out for them in league play?  I wish I had that opportunity when I was younger, all I had were house shots and it was all about bending the ball. 

Talk to your peers, get them involved.  Letters to USBC is a start but the bowlers need to get things started.  Get the junior programs involved.  I hate watching kids average 215+ on THS, when we can get them prepared a little more by throwing a challenge to them.
Exactly what our league did.  Kegel challenge patterns only.  People averaging 20 pins less than THS league averages.  Guess what?  League thrives, people have fun, people shake their heads and say "man, I gotta get better at this", no tantrums, no demands the shot get easier.  Why?  Because everybody is on the same playing field.  Averages are relative.  Like I said, the only people that get bent about "easy" shots are the ones that think they are better than they are and they get beat by somebody they don't deem as worthy.  Big freaking joke.  OP and those like him are going to be why people quit.

The only people that get bent about what other people say on a bowling forum are the people that think they're smarter than they are and routinely get beat in an argument by somebody they don't think is as smart.  You're bent non stop about something or other and you're gonna condemn somebody else for being bent over something?  *facepalm*

Of course, I don't suppose you'd be upset over something that directly affects your job. 
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 08:10:08 AM by Gizmo823 »
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Mighty Fish

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #116 on: April 10, 2013, 11:24:26 AM »
Way to many post on here to care. Bowling is about money. Money for the centers and money for USBC. Integrity is not a factor when money is at stake. Bowling is down in popular as a sign of the times. The game has fallen behind and no condition regulation or ball regulations will change that.
Dear kidlost:

A simple question:

Were bowling proprietors doing better financially when scores were lower (pre-1980, for example) or when scores became higher ... much higher?

swingset

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #117 on: April 10, 2013, 11:30:04 AM »
Way to many post on here to care. Bowling is about money. Money for the centers and money for USBC. Integrity is not a factor when money is at stake. Bowling is down in popular as a sign of the times. The game has fallen behind and no condition regulation or ball regulations will change that.
Dear kidlost:

A simple question:

Were bowling proprietors doing better financially when scores were lower (pre-1980, for example) or when scores became higher ... much higher?

It's not a simple question. It's a complex question, dressed as a simple one.

Correlation does not equal causation. Proprietors were doing better when bowling was a national past time and revered sport - when factories and the working class were doing it above all other forms of recreation.

The balls, conditions, and all of that is secondary to how culture views and participates in a sport.

Golf used to be harder, clubs more difficult, balls didn't go as far, but the sport is bigger and stronger than ever.

There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.

The only sports worth playing serve alcohol during gameplay.

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #118 on: April 10, 2013, 11:59:13 AM »
Way to many post on here to care. Bowling is about money. Money for the centers and money for USBC. Integrity is not a factor when money is at stake. Bowling is down in popular as a sign of the times. The game has fallen behind and no condition regulation or ball regulations will change that.
Dear kidlost:

A simple question:

Were bowling proprietors doing better financially when scores were lower (pre-1980, for example) or when scores became higher ... much higher?

It's not a simple question. It's a complex question, dressed as a simple one.

Correlation does not equal causation. Proprietors were doing better when bowling was a national past time and revered sport - when factories and the working class were doing it above all other forms of recreation.

The balls, conditions, and all of that is secondary to how culture views and participates in a sport.

Golf used to be harder, clubs more difficult, balls didn't go as far, but the sport is bigger and stronger than ever.

There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.

Golf used to be harder?  Courses used to be shorter, there were less trees, less sand, less water, etc.  As the equipment got better, courses adapted.  How much have golf scores changed?  Guys shot 65-75 in 1990, and still shoot the same today.  Par 5s used to be 500ish yards, now there are some over 600, some par 4s over 500, and some par 3s over 200 yards.  Golf in and of itself offers a lot more challenge than bowling does in the first place, and everything is so much more visual.  Even good scratch golfers understand that if they shoot par on a 6500 yard course that it's in no way comparable to Tiger shooting par at Pebble.  There's a lot of good scratch bowlers that average 230 who aren't impressed seeing a pro shoot 230 on tv.  It's the challenge of golf and the visually obvious impressive shotmaking of the pros that even good amateurs can't match.  There's good scratch golfers that still can't hit a 9 iron 160 or 170 yards like Tiger can.  There's no condition ranking system in bowling, but there's slope and rating for golf courses, numerical representation that's really easy to understand.  And as far as the NON-bowler goes, I've heard hundreds of comments to the tune of "well I've got a buddy that bowls once a week and never practices and shoots a couple 'perfect' games a year, yeah sounds like a real difficult sport."  You never hear somebody saying "yeah well my buddy shot 58 the other day, I never see pros doing that." 
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swingset

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #119 on: April 10, 2013, 12:40:17 PM »
Way to many post on here to care. Bowling is about money. Money for the centers and money for USBC. Integrity is not a factor when money is at stake. Bowling is down in popular as a sign of the times. The game has fallen behind and no condition regulation or ball regulations will change that.
Dear kidlost:

A simple question:

Were bowling proprietors doing better financially when scores were lower (pre-1980, for example) or when scores became higher ... much higher?

It's not a simple question. It's a complex question, dressed as a simple one.

Correlation does not equal causation. Proprietors were doing better when bowling was a national past time and revered sport - when factories and the working class were doing it above all other forms of recreation.

The balls, conditions, and all of that is secondary to how culture views and participates in a sport.

Golf used to be harder, clubs more difficult, balls didn't go as far, but the sport is bigger and stronger than ever.

There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.

Golf used to be harder?  Courses used to be shorter, there were less trees, less sand, less water, etc.  As the equipment got better, courses adapted.  How much have golf scores changed?  Guys shot 65-75 in 1990, and still shoot the same today.  Par 5s used to be 500ish yards, now there are some over 600, some par 4s over 500, and some par 3s over 200 yards.  Golf in and of itself offers a lot more challenge than bowling does in the first place, and everything is so much more visual.  Even good scratch golfers understand that if they shoot par on a 6500 yard course that it's in no way comparable to Tiger shooting par at Pebble.  There's a lot of good scratch bowlers that average 230 who aren't impressed seeing a pro shoot 230 on tv.  It's the challenge of golf and the visually obvious impressive shotmaking of the pros that even good amateurs can't match.  There's good scratch golfers that still can't hit a 9 iron 160 or 170 yards like Tiger can.  There's no condition ranking system in bowling, but there's slope and rating for golf courses, numerical representation that's really easy to understand.  And as far as the NON-bowler goes, I've heard hundreds of comments to the tune of "well I've got a buddy that bowls once a week and never practices and shoots a couple 'perfect' games a year, yeah sounds like a real difficult sport."  You never hear somebody saying "yeah well my buddy shot 58 the other day, I never see pros doing that."

Ok, let me rephrase that...golf is easier for MORE PEOPLE. Even on the older shorter courses, the conditions were harder to make consistent....that's something that's changed for the better, the more forgiving clubs give better distance, better control, and for a scratch golfer it's not that big of a deal but EXACTLY like bowling, your average recreational golfer has an easier time scoring well than he did in the 1970's. I know it's a lot easier with the clubs I play now than the ones I had in high school in 1983. I am less of an athlete, with less hand-eye coordination, but I can drive farther and with a huge sweet spot miss the ball more and still get a good game. And you know what? That's a good thing for me, now, not a bad one. It sure as hell isn't hurting the popularity of golf, I'll tell ya that.

Regardless, my statement still is very valid. The reason golf is exploding in popularity and financially growing while bowling is fighting to remain relevant has nothing whatsoever to do with how "easy" the game is. Pros in golf are rich, sponsorships are enormous, and at the local level golf leages are doing well and new courses coming to life all over. Meanwhile, bowling alleys are receding....only new ones being built are "upscale" recreation centers.

But, to many the problem with bowling is too many people are scoring well?

That's just ridiculous thinking. First of all, bowling is still a very difficult game for someone completely uninitiated to it to do well, so the faster a total noob can pick it up the BETTER it is to get people in the door. That argument (mostly from old timers romanticizing their youth in bowling) is just absurd.

Second, you don't compete against the lanes - you compete against each other. If everyone is scoring higher now, well, so what? You still have to be better than your league, better than your tournament competitors, better than the rest.

That has nothing to do with why bowling isn't as popular anymore. Bowling has shifted from a sport to recreation, in the cultural viewpoint, and scores, condtions, that's completely unrelated to the shift.

If you honestly believe that making the game harder would bring more people into it (which is the ONLY, I repeat ONLY) way to make this sport grow, brother you are drinking some good stuff and I'd like some of it.

Imagine if you could just hurl the game back to 1980 conditions....how would this appeal to anyone presently not a bowler but thinking about it? Seriously, what possible advantage is that to someone just starting out? "Well, it used to be way easier to score well, but thankfully I and the USBC retarded the game 30 years so now it's a lot harder....isn't that GREAT?"

Lunacy.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 12:51:48 PM by swingset »
The only sports worth playing serve alcohol during gameplay.

Steven

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #120 on: April 10, 2013, 12:56:50 PM »

Ok, let me rephrase that...golf is easier for MORE PEOPLE. Even on the older shorter courses, the conditions were harder to make consistent....that's something that's changed for the better, the more forgiving clubs give better distance, better control, and for a scratch golfer it's not that big of a deal but EXACTLY like bowling, your average recreational golfer has an easier time scoring well than he did in the 1970's.

Regardless, my statement still is very valid. The reason golf is exploding in popularity and financially growing while bowling is fighting to remain relevant has nothing whatsoever to do with how "easy" the game is.

That's just ridiculous thinking. First of all, bowling is still a very difficult game for someone completely uninitiated to it to do well, so the faster a total noob can pick it up the BETTER it is to get people in the door. That argument (mostly from old timers romanticizing their youth in bowling) is just absurd.

Second, you don't compete against the lanes - you compete against each other. If everyone is scoring higher now, well, so what? You still have to be better than your league, better than your tournament competitors, better than the rest.

That has nothing to do with why bowling isn't as popular anymore. Bowling has shifted from a sport to recreation, in the cultural viewpoint, and scores, condtions, that's completely unrelated to the shift.



Swingset, some of the best phrased and accurate analysis I've read in long time. Everything was spot on, but your statement about competing against each other couldn't be said better.


Even with softer conditions (I hate the word easier, because it's not for most), the skilled bowler will still win most of the time on the THS. I understand that not winning all the time takes away from the purity some folks would like to see, but in my personal opinion, that significance is overstated. 


Again, nice post.