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Author Topic: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling  (Read 36083 times)

Gizmo823

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Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« on: March 04, 2013, 07:49:05 AM »
I recently wrote a letter to USBC concerning my opinions on the current state of bowling that I thought I'd share with everyone.  I actually got a response, and just about word for word what I expected, but at least an actual human read my letter and replied.  Here is the letter, their response, and then I'll finish up:

This is an open letter to whom it may concern reflecting my opinions and comments regarding the state of bowling as a whole as well as a widely perceived view on how the USBC is only serving to further destroy the sport so many of us love and have already begun to mourn.  I will however begin by saying that the USBC Open Championships represents everything that is right with the sport of bowling.  The challenge, the venues, the organization, the execution, the resources, etc., every part of "Nationals" is so expertly crafted that even some of the best bowlers in the world make a point to come compete.  That, unfortunately, is where it ends, and could one day be lost as bowling as a whole continues to decline.  It is incredibly irresponsible of USBC to be so out of touch with league bowling, the very foundation of the sport.  I read a published article regarding fresh oil for every squad at the 2013 Open Championships, finally correcting the only problem I believe the event had.  It referenced a quote from someone regarding having one pattern for the team event and a different pattern for singles and doubles, effectively saying that USBC wanted to challenge their bowlers' versatility.  I found it to be one of the most hypocritical statements or comments I have ever come across.  USBC's specifications and limits regarding legal lane conditions are so wide open that thousands of league bowlers who never practice can show up to league once a week, shoot 750 with the only ball they own, and go home without so much as a thought.  These are the same people that post 230+ averages during the league season, only to show up to the Open Championships to shoot 1500 for all events, and go home with their tails between their legs.  The idea that making tighter restrictions on lane conditions would only serve to further drive away bowlers and hurt revenue for center owners is ludicrous, as USBC membership has fallen from approximately 9 million to 1.7 million in a little over a decade, corresponding with ever increasing numbers of "honor scores" and member averages.  When scoring was harder, people spent money practicing, centers were full for early AND late leagues every night of the week.  This has made the future for our youth bowlers dismal, and has driven away the majority of the truly skilled bowlers.  The quality of coaches has declined, combined with the fact that it's impossible to convince a kid they made a bad shot even though they struck.  If youth bowlers are putting up numbers on easy shots, they believe they are good, and become hard to coach.  Then when they start competing in Junior Gold or PBA Experience leagues, they become discouraged fast, and when they are ready to be coached, more often than not, their game has to be completely torn down and rebuilt.  There was a youth in my city recently who shot his "first" 800.  He is not skilled, and not accurate.  He is a no thumb bowler who simply throws a lot of revs and a lot of speed, and on a legal USBC pattern, all he really has to do is keep the ball right of the headpin to strike.  This past summer, he, like a lot of the city high school bowlers, joined our summer PBA Experience league.  He proceeded to shoot 354 for the entire 3 game set the first night of league on the Cheetah pattern, following which he packed up his equipment and never came back.  This is the kind of bowler the USBC is creating.  I used to believe my "accomplishments" were earned and worth something, now I realize they aren't worth any more than the metal the rings are made out of, which is in fact so cheap that they are impossible to resize.  All my work, my effort, what I've learned, it's all meaningless.  I have been a pro shop operator for 7 years now, and I would consider my knowledge, experience, and skill to be very high, yet the process of selecting a ball, watching the bowler, and crafting a layout and surface prep for most USBC sanctioned lane conditions is needless.  I can pick any ball off the wall, "label" drill it, never touch the surface, put holes in it, and whoever I drill it for will be "successful."  People in their 60's and 70's are reaching scores they have never seen before.  It's more surprising to hear that someone has NOT achieved "perfection" now than to hear that they have.  USBC is supposed to be the governing body for sanctioned competition, but all it serves to do is drive people elsewhere for real competition or real challenge.  Bowling is no longer a sport, or even a game, it is a recreation, where people gather in attempts to record obscene numbers or merely occupy them while they drink and socialize.  Any activity that requires zero practice and little effort to achieve "perfection" will eventually cease to exist.  I have put my life into bowling, and in turn it nearly became my life, but no longer.  I am ashamed to be a USBC member, and to be associated with the laughingstock that this recreation of sanctioned bowling has become.  The amount of money and time that has to be put into obtaining "available" coaching certifications, or to attend "available" tournaments or events is staggering, and the opportunity to prepare for these things doesn't exist for most of us.  The USBC is turning a blind, uncaring, ignorant eye to the most important things in bowling, while raising sanction fees at the same time.  Charging me admission to view the destruction of a sport I have put my life into is unacceptable.  For the first time in several years, I will not attend the Open Championships, simply because I have zero opportunities to practice on tougher conditions to prepare in the months leading up to the tournament.  The attitude the USBC has towards the sport is wholly irresponsible.  I can serve my kids cake for supper, but make vegetables available, which do you think they will choose?  Bowling is not on the rise, it continues to fall, and the focus and effort is completely in the wrong direction.  Making coaching and affordable equipment available and teaching a golfer how to putt makes little difference if the greens they play on funnel down towards the hole.  The USBC is singularly to blame for the current state of bowling, and it disgusts me.  Thank you for your time.

The response:
I appreciate your feedback and your membership. Your email illustrates a challenging issue the industry faces. USBC’s role in controlling lane conditions are a controversial subject and one that draws out many strong opinions. While you make a good argument for a mandating lower scoring lane conditions, there are enforcement and compliance challenges on the other side. USBC’s Sport Bowling program attempts to provide an option for those bowlers/centers who want the challenge you seek. I realize this is not a perfect solution as many communities do not have a center that offers Sport Bowling leagues.

 

I respect your passion for the sport and have no doubt your opinions come from a desire to improve bowling. I do want to clarify your implication that USBC has been raising dues. USBC national dues are $10 and have not increased since 2006.

 

Thank you for taking the time to write.

 

Best regards,

Jason Overstreet

USBC Communications


First of all regarding the league dues, a few years ago our dues rose from $15 to $17, apparently our local association raised their fee and blamed it on USBC, so I wasn't very happy about that, I definitely would not have stuck that in my letter if I'd have known.  The point of the letter wasn't to throw USBC under the bus, but this is honestly the way I believe it is.  I knew I would get something back about the challenges of enforcement, but here's the deal.  The USBC let it get out of control years ago when they were more concerned about an ounce of sideweight in a ball than about the ball itself, or about regulating the oil patterns.  The PBA figured this out 15 or more years ago, why didn't the USBC?  So maybe the current people in power at the USBC didn't have anything to do with it, but the organization itself is completely responsible.  Regarding the challenges though, as I said in the letter, I've worked in the bowling industry for 7 years now, I very well understand all the challenges and issues, I'm not just writing the letter crying about things without having a very knowledgeable and objective viewpoint.  Honestly though, they're going to have to do something, and here's the real point of contention.  Center owners will fight tougher conditions because they think they'll lose business.  Well, they have already lost business for years.  A real simple solution here, make conditions tougher for the sanctioned leagues.  If you don't want a tougher shot, don't bowl a sanctioned league.  What does sanctioning really do for you?  Gives you some trinkets, and allows you to use your average in tournaments for potential handicap.  People wouldn't quit bowling if they were told their league wouldn't be sanctioned, they would see it as a way to save fees every year.  Most people don't bowl tournaments anymore.  But of course, this would really hurt the USBC.  So instead of really governing the sport and enforcing the rules, they're content to just let things slip away while they say, "oh, well we offer a bunch of stuff."  Rant off. 
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Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #121 on: April 10, 2013, 01:43:56 PM »
Way to many post on here to care. Bowling is about money. Money for the centers and money for USBC. Integrity is not a factor when money is at stake. Bowling is down in popular as a sign of the times. The game has fallen behind and no condition regulation or ball regulations will change that.
Dear kidlost:

A simple question:

Were bowling proprietors doing better financially when scores were lower (pre-1980, for example) or when scores became higher ... much higher?

It's not a simple question. It's a complex question, dressed as a simple one.

Correlation does not equal causation. Proprietors were doing better when bowling was a national past time and revered sport - when factories and the working class were doing it above all other forms of recreation.

The balls, conditions, and all of that is secondary to how culture views and participates in a sport.

Golf used to be harder, clubs more difficult, balls didn't go as far, but the sport is bigger and stronger than ever.

There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.

Golf used to be harder?  Courses used to be shorter, there were less trees, less sand, less water, etc.  As the equipment got better, courses adapted.  How much have golf scores changed?  Guys shot 65-75 in 1990, and still shoot the same today.  Par 5s used to be 500ish yards, now there are some over 600, some par 4s over 500, and some par 3s over 200 yards.  Golf in and of itself offers a lot more challenge than bowling does in the first place, and everything is so much more visual.  Even good scratch golfers understand that if they shoot par on a 6500 yard course that it's in no way comparable to Tiger shooting par at Pebble.  There's a lot of good scratch bowlers that average 230 who aren't impressed seeing a pro shoot 230 on tv.  It's the challenge of golf and the visually obvious impressive shotmaking of the pros that even good amateurs can't match.  There's good scratch golfers that still can't hit a 9 iron 160 or 170 yards like Tiger can.  There's no condition ranking system in bowling, but there's slope and rating for golf courses, numerical representation that's really easy to understand.  And as far as the NON-bowler goes, I've heard hundreds of comments to the tune of "well I've got a buddy that bowls once a week and never practices and shoots a couple 'perfect' games a year, yeah sounds like a real difficult sport."  You never hear somebody saying "yeah well my buddy shot 58 the other day, I never see pros doing that."

Ok, let me rephrase that...golf is easier for MORE PEOPLE. Even on the older shorter courses, the conditions were harder to make consistent....that's something that's changed for the better, the more forgiving clubs give better distance, better control, and for a scratch golfer it's not that big of a deal but EXACTLY like bowling, your average recreational golfer has an easier time scoring well than he did in the 1970's. I know it's a lot easier with the clubs I play now than the ones I had in high school in 1983. I am less of an athlete, with less hand-eye coordination, but I can drive farther and with a huge sweet spot miss the ball more and still get a good game. And you know what? That's a good thing for me, now, not a bad one. It sure as hell isn't hurting the popularity of golf, I'll tell ya that.

Regardless, my statement still is very valid. The reason golf is exploding in popularity and financially growing while bowling is fighting to remain relevant has nothing whatsoever to do with how "easy" the game is. Pros in golf are rich, sponsorships are enormous, and at the local level golf leages are doing well and new courses coming to life all over. Meanwhile, bowling alleys are receding....only new ones being built are "upscale" recreation centers.

But, to many the problem with bowling is too many people are scoring well?

That's just ridiculous thinking. First of all, bowling is still a very difficult game for someone completely uninitiated to it to do well, so the faster a total noob can pick it up the BETTER it is to get people in the door. That argument (mostly from old timers romanticizing their youth in bowling) is just absurd.

Second, you don't compete against the lanes - you compete against each other. If everyone is scoring higher now, well, so what? You still have to be better than your league, better than your tournament competitors, better than the rest.

That has nothing to do with why bowling isn't as popular anymore. Bowling has shifted from a sport to recreation, in the cultural viewpoint, and scores, condtions, that's completely unrelated to the shift.

If you honestly believe that making the game harder would bring more people into it (which is the ONLY, I repeat ONLY) way to make this sport grow, brother you are drinking some good stuff and I'd like some of it.

Imagine if you could just hurl the game back to 1980 conditions....how would this appeal to anyone presently not a bowler but thinking about it? Seriously, what possible advantage is that to someone just starting out? "Well, it used to be way easier to score well, but thankfully I and the USBC retarded the game 30 years so now it's a lot harder....isn't that GREAT?"

Lunacy.

There's a very direct and mathematical correlation between the increase of honor scores and decline of membership.  The perfect game used to be like a hole in one, now if you don't get 3 or 4 a year it was a bad year.  So tell me this?  Why do so many more people play and participate in a sport that is tougher and harder to score in (being golf)?  Bowling has the outside perception that all you have to do is have the right ball and you're guaranteed a 300.  Why do people who have zero chance of making money still go to Nationals year after year when they consistently do terribly? 

The higher the scores get, the more your score depends on carry, because when you get guys above 220 going against each other on a house shot, it's a complete crap shoot.  If you have 5 or 6 boards of area and these guys can keep it within 3 or 4, where's the parity?  If two guys bowl a game and one 9 pin is the difference, how can you really say the guy that shot 300 is better than the guy that shot 279?  Making the shot tougher has NOTHING to do with GAINING bowlers, it has everything to do with KEEPING them.  People will give up on something when no challenge remains. 

So if a new bowler starts, and they have a 140 or 150 average, and see people with 220s and 230s, you're saying that's not more intimidating than if the top averages were around 200?  Anytime you start ANYTHING, it's going to be challenging.  The lower average bowlers complain JUST AS MUCH about the integrity of the game as the higher average bowler, they just don't know it!  They cry and cry constantly for more handicap to be able to keep up.  And the high average bowler can't consistently shoot 250 because of simple carry.  It's both easier AND harder for a 220 average bowler to shoot 260 than it is for a 140 average bowler to shoot 180.  Because of the way bowling scores work, a 140 average just needs to pick up a few more spares.  For 220 to get to 260, you need 2-4 more CONSECUTIVE STRIKES, and splitting the targets you're aiming at doesn't guarantee a strike, BUT when you have 5-6 boards to work with and you only need 3-4, when you do get the carry, it's easier to get those strikes that the lower averages aren't accurate enough to get.  Ask Walter Ray about his first show this year.  He split boards the entire game, but couldn't get more than 9 pins on nearly every single shot.  The higher the scores, the more important good carry becomes over good shots. 

Why then does the PBA not use higher scoring patterns?  If that's what everyone wants to see is big scores, why not give it to them?  Golf doesn't make things easier to appeal to the masses, so why does it continue to grow?  And hitting the ball further is in and of itself added difficulty!  (that's a different conversation for another topic) Challenge in bowling for new bowlers is in no way related to the conditions, just as it doesn't matter in golf whether the course is long or short, small greens or big greens, they're going to have just as much trouble throwing a bowling ball as they would hitting a golf ball, and won't even notice, "oh gee, there's more oil in the middle of the lane than there is on the outside" until they get up to 170, just like nobody will pay attention to a bunker being 250 yards from the tee until they're good enough to hit it that distance and keep it close to the fairway.  New bowlers WILL average 120-150 regardless of the pattern, and the idea that seeing guys shooting 300s and averaging 230 ISN'T discouraging just boggles my mind. 

Bottom line, ANY sport you play is tough regardless of the actual challenge of the game, because you don't even get challenged by the game itself until you master some fundamentals.  If you can't get a basketball through the hole, it doesn't matter whether you're by yourself or being guarded by Kobe.  If you can't putt straight, it doesn't matter whether the green is flat or looks like an earthquake came through.  If you can't hit a baseball on a tee, it doesn't matter if Randy Johnson is throwing them at you.  Bowling is the same way, new bowlers in 1980 I GUARANTEE you averaged EXACTLY the same as bowlers today do.  The pins are the same weight, the balls are the same weight, and you could take a Raptor Talon and throw it end over end, and it will go dead straight.  It's just now instead of just getting more consistent, now you have to learn a bunch of stuff about conditions, layouts, balls, surfaces, hook, angles, laneplay, where back then, you had a plastic or urethane ball, and whether you hooked it or played straight, accuracy was king.  Now on any shot it's speed and revs.  You think Earl Anthony wins almost 50 PBA titles in today's game?  ZERO chance.  Why did he win back then?  Because accuracy mattered more than carry.  The pros get a half hour before competition starts to open their shot up, so whatever shot was laid down will in no way resemble what the guys are bowling on by the time scoring starts.  Any game where there is zero parity between a pro and a good amateur won't be respected by the participants or people who are just seeing it for the first time.  I said before that I would NEVER consider putting a dime on the line against Pete Weber on the US Open shot, but I wouldn't hesitate to bowl him on a house shot.  All it takes is him leaving a 9 pin or a 10 pin here or there, not to mention that since he's more accurate, with the way today's balls pick oil up off the lane, he'll run into lane transition problems long before I will. 

I GET what you're saying or what angle you're working, but it's backwards logic when you really get to the important things about games or sports that people don't think about.  Yeah, if it's easy, more people will want to play it, but when there's no challenge left, do you keep playing?  Some people may say "well unless you shoot 300 every game, there's still challenge there," but until they get to that point where they realize that even a MACHINE like E.A.R.L. the robot has NEVER shot 300, it's like the Matrix after Neo took that pill.  All the sudden you see all these things in a completely different light.  Kids will play tic tac toe until they realize it's pointless.

So I'm not going to insult you, because you present a thought out, logical argument.  But any logical argument based off false premises will fail, even if the logic is flawless.  I love debating, but I'm not so fond of pissing contests, so I'd definitely love to keep this conversation going if you have more points you would like to bring up.  I'm in DEEP here locally trying to get bowling off life support, and you have to be objective to begin with, but you also have to consider perspective as well.  Something may be right, but if people can't see how it IS right based either on lack of experience, conceptual grasp, or lack of information, you're gonna do nothing but frustrate people unless they understand or on board with you, and talking down to somebody and acting like they're stupid because they can't see what you consider obvious isn't going to get anybody anywhere. 
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Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #122 on: April 10, 2013, 02:09:51 PM »

Ok, let me rephrase that...golf is easier for MORE PEOPLE. Even on the older shorter courses, the conditions were harder to make consistent....that's something that's changed for the better, the more forgiving clubs give better distance, better control, and for a scratch golfer it's not that big of a deal but EXACTLY like bowling, your average recreational golfer has an easier time scoring well than he did in the 1970's.

Regardless, my statement still is very valid. The reason golf is exploding in popularity and financially growing while bowling is fighting to remain relevant has nothing whatsoever to do with how "easy" the game is.

That's just ridiculous thinking. First of all, bowling is still a very difficult game for someone completely uninitiated to it to do well, so the faster a total noob can pick it up the BETTER it is to get people in the door. That argument (mostly from old timers romanticizing their youth in bowling) is just absurd.

Second, you don't compete against the lanes - you compete against each other. If everyone is scoring higher now, well, so what? You still have to be better than your league, better than your tournament competitors, better than the rest.

That has nothing to do with why bowling isn't as popular anymore. Bowling has shifted from a sport to recreation, in the cultural viewpoint, and scores, condtions, that's completely unrelated to the shift.



Swingset, some of the best phrased and accurate analysis I've read in long time. Everything was spot on, but your statement about competing against each other couldn't be said better.


Even with softer conditions (I hate the word easier, because it's not for most), the skilled bowler will still win most of the time on the THS. I understand that not winning all the time takes away from the purity some folks would like to see, but in my personal opinion, that significance is overstated. 


Again, nice post.

Yes, it was a nice post.  But what happens when you get so many bowlers that are better than a standard?  If you have 5-6 boards to work with, and guys get to the point where they can keep it withing 3-4, where's the parity?  What happens to the guys that can keep it within 1-2 boards?  3-4 boards is still a lot of area.  Why then do they not have house shots for PBA tournaments?  At some point it becomes a total crap shoot when the challenge isn't relative to achievable skill.  It would be like juggling 3 balls being the max that's required.  Yeah it's hard for some people to get there, but given that humans are capable of more than that, where's the separation between the guys that can juggle 5, 6, 7, or 8?  And if there's no parity or reward for skill, what's the incentive to even try to juggle more than 3?  Once that gets easy enough, what's left to achieve?  You can't tell me that if you average over 210 that you don't have fun bowling on PBA shots, you just can't.  The challenge speaks to people more than they admit.  It feels much more rewarding to get strikes on tough conditions because of the challenge you met to get it.  I'd much rather shoot 200 on a tough condition than 230 on a house shot. 

And tell me this . . big numbers aside, if you bowl for several years and can't seem to get your average over 170, do you still have a burning desire for the sport?  Probably not, not like you had when you started and were making progress anyway.  People like challenge whether they know they want it or not.  Would sports be entertaining to watch if you knew which team was going to win every single time? 

PLUS, if you get guys used to big numbers on a house shot and they try their hand at the PBA and find themselves in a completely different world, that's incredibly discouraging, instead of it being the same game with the same rules, just better competition.  House guys have to start learning all over again, no other sport is like that.  Basketball goals are still 10 feet tall with the same size rim.  Baseball diamonds are still the same dimensions.  The hole in golf is still the same size, you just have better competition.  In 1980, if you averaged 200 at home, you would average 200 on tour, you were just bowling against guys that could average 220.  Now you can get to 230 on a house shot, then when you go to PBA shots where the conditions are exactly a 180 degree difference, you go back down to 170 and start learning all over again.  The idea used to be to bounce it off 5 where the dry was, now if you aim for 5 it may not stay on the lane. 

I'd like to see a graph for bowlers, I know that 220+ averages are the top 1-2% of bowlers, but I want to see the parity after that.  I bet it's closer to a plateau than a peak.  The challenge in anything should ALWAYS be just a bit past what is humanly possible to repeat consistently, and should reward the BEST competitor above all else.  In the olympics, the best competitor wins instead of saying that everybody that finishes the 100m dash under 11 seconds gets a medal. 

I bowl against Bob Benoit frequently.  Bob is miles and miles of skill beyond anything I could see what a NASA telescope, but we average about the same.  THIS IS NOT RIGHT.  He can split boards and shoot 700 with a plastic ball, but we've got 5-6 boards to work with and I only need 3, so it's a total and complete carry contest.  Your average new bowler looking at a 230 average guy with multiple 300s will see that as an impossible goal.  Seeing that other people still have to work hard to shoot 200s seems and feels more realistic. 
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txbowler

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #123 on: April 10, 2013, 04:25:09 PM »
I myself have not seen this for myself, however, there have been many posters in several threads that have said, on golf boards, that they have the same discussions about the decline of golf.  Less and less people play golf compared to year past.

Same issues we are discussing.  How to get the youth interested in golf.  How to grow the sport.

So I don't know who to believe.  Is golf growing or not.

We know bowling is not.

Pinbuster

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #124 on: April 10, 2013, 04:59:24 PM »
Sorry but golf is much harder than bowling. Harder to learn, harder to get good at.

Yes the game improvement clubs have helped. But the average golfer is still a 16 handicapper and seldom breaks 90 on their home course.

And the golf industry is down, rounds are down around 20% from the Tiger peak in 2000. People found out the game is hard, takes money, and takes a lot of time to play.

Golf courses are closing and new course construction has slowed significantly.

Steven

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #125 on: April 10, 2013, 05:11:11 PM »
Gizmo, a lot of stuff you posted to absorb and respond to.  :D


I'm not disputing that you see some bowlers having 5-6 boards of area, when they strike. But if they're off by that many boards, they're most likely not very consistent in their spare shooting. By definition, that would be highly improbable. If they're not making 95%+ of their convertible spares, they're not averaging a THS 230-240. The guys who have the skill to be accurate within a couple of boards and are exceptional spare shooters will win most of the time. If you're seeing something different, I'd really like to hear specifics.   


Bowling in PBA shot leagues is a completely different mentality that doesn't always equate to 'fun'.  ;)  It's far more of a grind. There is a lot of spare shooting. Sometimes you see an avalanche of washouts and ugly splits.  It's not exactly an environment that's conducive to high fives and the excitement of close higher scoring matches. I like the Kegel Challenge patterns because they provide some additional challenge without crushing the will and desire of most below the absolute 'crem de la crem'. The PBA animal patterns can be torture, even for the truly skilled, when laid down on worn out surfaces. Many bowlers could practice on these conditions forever and never get it. If these patterns became the 'standard', I believe frustration would result in lots of bowlers leaving the game.

An interesting phenomena in the PBA league I bowl in is that most all of the averages are compressed between 185-200, with roughly 75% being between 192-198. These guys aren't shrubs -- many are consistent cashers in the PBA West Region. What's interesting is that their comparative skill levels are more reflected in their THS averages established in head-to-head competition.


A PBA condition world sounds romantic, but the reality wouldn't solve most of the problems bowling is experiencing. At least from where I experience and see it.

swingset

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #126 on: April 10, 2013, 05:27:26 PM »
Sorry but golf is much harder than bowling. Harder to learn, harder to get good at.


I didn't contend any differently - just that golf was easier for most players now than it was 30 years ago. If you think hitting with oversized clubs with a sweet spot the size of a silver dollar is the same as a blade from 1970 with the sweet spot of a dime, well, I don't know what to tell you. I can drive 275 yards, 9 times out of 10 very straight, and I'm just a hack. 25 years ago I couldn't hit that far, and I was a better player.


Yes the game improvement clubs have helped. But the average golfer is still a 16 handicapper and seldom breaks 90 on their home course.

And as has been pointed out courses are adapting to the longer and more accurate clubs to combat this. It stands to reason, but the truth is (and anyone who's played over the years would be crazy to deny) that the modern clubs and balls make the actual game easier than it used to be. Bowling has adapted by laying down heavier oil and offering sport patterns, but people are getting better in spite of it....for many reasons (knowledge, better balls, styles, whatever). That doesn't mean people are quitting the sport over it or that pros aren't impressive anymore tho, which seems to be the contention - and I feel absurd

And the golf industry is down, rounds are down around 20% from the Tiger peak in 2000. People found out the game is hard, takes money, and takes a lot of time to play.

Golf courses are closing and new course construction has slowed significantly.

I've read recently that it's picking up, but that brings up an interesting point - the economic downturn had a huge hand in the decline (look at the years), plus terrible weather the last 3 years, and a lot of recreation suffered similar pains, but even at that it's doing better than bowling.

People aren't stopping golf because it's hard. Cripes, that's nonsense. It would have never gotten to a state of popularity if that was true.

I don't know about nationwide, but here in Ohio golf courses are springing up. We just had two open in our county, and I know of none that are closing or threatened.

According to this golf is doing pretty well and coming out of the financial slump:
http://www.4hoteliers.com/features/article/7566

I think the point in comparing it with golf are there are more things at play that affect bowling than the ease of the game, or the patterns - entire shifts in how people spend their free time and whether or not they even have free time. These are MUCH MUCH larger issues than the game itself.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 05:44:10 PM by swingset »
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Mighty Fish

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #127 on: April 11, 2013, 11:17:09 AM »
There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.
Dear swingset:

Regardless of golf technology, you don't see ever the top local amateurs routinely shooting scores similar to (or better than) the top professionals. And in bowling, you can go to many centers and see local amateurs rolling scores as high (or higher) than you might see on a typical PBA telecast.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 11:19:08 AM by Mighty Fish »

swingset

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #128 on: April 11, 2013, 03:00:57 PM »
There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.
Dear swingset:

Regardless of golf technology, you don't see ever the top local amateurs routinely shooting scores similar to (or better than) the top professionals. And in bowling, you can go to many centers and see local amateurs rolling scores as high (or higher) than you might see on a typical PBA telecast.

It's kind of a silly comparison....pro courses are a lot different than your local 18 holer, just like conditions on the PBA tour are very different than your local house's tourney....as is the pressure, money at stake, the level of your competition.

If the PBA's best joined your local tournaments, would the local amateurs routinely beat them? I'd bet not....and there's the difference we all know in our hearts.

Regardless, who flipping cares who scores what in comparison to the pros? That doesn't determine how many people locally bowl, whether they enjoy it, or if they should decide to take up the sport and thus improve bowling as an industry and activity. What Norm Duke shoots, and what the best house hack I bowl against score on different shots and patterns doesn't affect me one iota. When I bowl a 279 in league, I'm not delusional enough to believe I'm on par with Norm Duke, anymore than the guy who shot the course record at my local golf club believes he's PGA material.

And, as long as people are not rolling 900's consistently in competition (and we're a long long way from there), the scores are completely and utterly irrelevant. If I beat my locals in a tournament, no matter what I score, it doesn't mean I can beat the PBA's best should I try. I am only as good as the conditions I'm bowling on, and only against the competition I am presently bowling against.

Likewise for the pros.

Scores in this game are only for two things: A measurement by which you can determine your place in a field of competitors, in which the "high" is subjective and not that important, or they are a comparison to others bowling in a similar condition against similar competitors - ie, honor scores. And, if your sole devotion to this game is to regulate refrigerator magnets and trinkets, then I guess this whole "how the pros score in relation to house hacks" means something. I don't bowl for knick knacks, and whether guys in the 1970's did more to earn their rings than I do now, really doesn't diminish my enjoyment of any given day on the lanes. I shudder to think that people really put that much into the score cards.

If they do, then perhaps the problem with bowling today is people are too damned uptight.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 03:11:00 PM by swingset »
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spmcgivern

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #129 on: April 12, 2013, 07:47:12 AM »
There's a simple question for you - explain how golf is thriving with easier-than-ever equipment and better courses, yet bowling is suffering.
Dear swingset:

Regardless of golf technology, you don't see ever the top local amateurs routinely shooting scores similar to (or better than) the top professionals. And in bowling, you can go to many centers and see local amateurs rolling scores as high (or higher) than you might see on a typical PBA telecast.

It's kind of a silly comparison....pro courses are a lot different than your local 18 holer, just like conditions on the PBA tour are very different than your local house's tourney....as is the pressure, money at stake, the level of your competition.

If the PBA's best joined your local tournaments, would the local amateurs routinely beat them? I'd bet not....and there's the difference we all know in our hearts.

Regardless, who flipping cares who scores what in comparison to the pros? That doesn't determine how many people locally bowl, whether they enjoy it, or if they should decide to take up the sport and thus improve bowling as an industry and activity. What Norm Duke shoots, and what the best house hack I bowl against score on different shots and patterns doesn't affect me one iota. When I bowl a 279 in league, I'm not delusional enough to believe I'm on par with Norm Duke, anymore than the guy who shot the course record at my local golf club believes he's PGA material.

And, as long as people are not rolling 900's consistently in competition (and we're a long long way from there), the scores are completely and utterly irrelevant. If I beat my locals in a tournament, no matter what I score, it doesn't mean I can beat the PBA's best should I try. I am only as good as the conditions I'm bowling on, and only against the competition I am presently bowling against.

Likewise for the pros.

Scores in this game are only for two things: A measurement by which you can determine your place in a field of competitors, in which the "high" is subjective and not that important, or they are a comparison to others bowling in a similar condition against similar competitors - ie, honor scores. And, if your sole devotion to this game is to regulate refrigerator magnets and trinkets, then I guess this whole "how the pros score in relation to house hacks" means something. I don't bowl for knick knacks, and whether guys in the 1970's did more to earn their rings than I do now, really doesn't diminish my enjoyment of any given day on the lanes. I shudder to think that people really put that much into the score cards.

If they do, then perhaps the problem with bowling today is people are too damned uptight.

So out of curiosity, where would bowling need to be for it to require changing?  Should we wait till bowlers are shooting 900s on a consistent basis?  Should we wait till multiple bowlers are averaging 800s every week?  For those who feel there is nothing wrong with the game, at what point has the game gone too far?

Everyone has a different view of what bowling is to them.  Some feel the game is fine the way it is.  They like shooting what they shoot and they know where they are in the pecking order.  Some want something different.  I understand why people don't care what the score is, but I think the conversation gets misconstrued as a sport shot or bust mentality.  I guess I wish the shot was different than the blocked shot.  I don't want sport shots for all leagues.  But I do think it should change.  I actually feel bowlers can average higher on 6:1 ratio shots than they do on the current 15:1 or whatever the ridiculous blocks are now-a-days. 

In the end, no two people see the state of the game the same.  And no two people will have the same ideas as to the causes or fixes for the game (if there is a fix).  But no one's opinion is more important or more "right" than another.

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #130 on: April 12, 2013, 08:27:31 AM »
Gizmo, a lot of stuff you posted to absorb and respond to.  :D


I'm not disputing that you see some bowlers having 5-6 boards of area, when they strike. But if they're off by that many boards, they're most likely not very consistent in their spare shooting. By definition, that would be highly improbable. If they're not making 95%+ of their convertible spares, they're not averaging a THS 230-240. The guys who have the skill to be accurate within a couple of boards and are exceptional spare shooters will win most of the time. If you're seeing something different, I'd really like to hear specifics.   


Bowling in PBA shot leagues is a completely different mentality that doesn't always equate to 'fun'.  ;)  It's far more of a grind. There is a lot of spare shooting. Sometimes you see an avalanche of washouts and ugly splits.  It's not exactly an environment that's conducive to high fives and the excitement of close higher scoring matches. I like the Kegel Challenge patterns because they provide some additional challenge without crushing the will and desire of most below the absolute 'crem de la crem'. The PBA animal patterns can be torture, even for the truly skilled, when laid down on worn out surfaces. Many bowlers could practice on these conditions forever and never get it. If these patterns became the 'standard', I believe frustration would result in lots of bowlers leaving the game.

An interesting phenomena in the PBA league I bowl in is that most all of the averages are compressed between 185-200, with roughly 75% being between 192-198. These guys aren't shrubs -- many are consistent cashers in the PBA West Region. What's interesting is that their comparative skill levels are more reflected in their THS averages established in head-to-head competition.


A PBA condition world sounds romantic, but the reality wouldn't solve most of the problems bowling is experiencing. At least from where I experience and see it.

Well, I was talking about the guys who only need 3-4 boards, but have 5-6.  If guys are still using 5-6 boards, then yes, you're probably right.  For me, there's a big difference between how I throw the ball on a house shot vs a tough shot.  If I know I have room, I'm more focused on how I'm throwing the ball than where I'm throwing it.  I'll generally try to "spank" it at the bottom more and throw it harder on a house shot, because that translates into extra carry, and if I tug it a little bit or get it out a little bit, it's still gonna get to the pocket.  On a tough shot, I relax a bit and just make sure I hit where I'm aiming at, because even if you don't strike on a tougher shot, leaving makeable spares is going to win you games. 

And yes, I get what you're saying about imposing tougher patterns on current bowlers, but the point for me is that when bowling was REALLY tough back in the 60's and 70's, when you had to figure your score by hand, some places used a mop to lay the oil down, and you had a ball that didn't hook at all, people were flocking to the bowling centers.  If you had a 190 average, you were a really good bowler.  People today are in love with big numbers rather than the relativity of their scores.  300 back then, and especially 800 was a pipe dream, a crazy, wild, might happen once in your life if the stars were aligned right type deal.  If everybody else is averaging 220, and I'm averaging 230, I'm happy, and exactly the same is true if everybody is averaging 180 and I'm averaging 190.  If that's happening, I'm winning games and making money. 

I'm not trying to campaign for soul crushing challenge, I just want things to be more about skill.  Some people might say, "well scoring on a house shot is still a skill," and they're partially right, but to me, power takes much less skill than accuracy does.  And maybe I'm so bitter because of my situation.  With no tough shots around, people don't get the concept of things, they're harder to coach, and harder to drill for.  If they're not shooting 300s, it's not their fault, because everybody else is shooting 300s.  And if they ARE shooting 300s, you can't tell them a thing, because hey, they have a 300, they know everything.  I keep going back to the Casey's pizza commercial.  "Casey's pizza is perfect like . . . my backswing.  Which is perfect.  I bowled a 300."  Even freaking CASEY'S knows how bowlers are.  And my biggest point is just because you can throw a ball well doesn't mean you know jack squat about drilling them.  Bowlers, their attitudes, and their egos are hurting the industry. 

I've got a buddy who quit last year at 35.  He's got 40 300s and 20 800s.  He said it got boring, because every night he didn't shoot something big felt like a disappointment.  Yeah obviously there were far more nights he didn't shoot something than he did, but when you go into every night having that kind of ability thinking you can go big and don't . . how do we KEEP those kinds of bowlers?  If high scores are the answer, why are people still quitting in record numbers? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

avabob

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #131 on: April 15, 2013, 09:51:30 PM »
It has never been about scoring and it is not about people quitting.  Many more people quit golf for non physical reasons than quit bowling.  The problem with bowling is in the competitive area, and is all about money.   There is no incentive for young people to strive to become elite in bowling regardless of the scoring environment.  It is about the people who arent starting, not the people quitting.

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #132 on: April 17, 2013, 09:59:34 AM »
It has never been about scoring and it is not about people quitting.  Many more people quit golf for non physical reasons than quit bowling.  The problem with bowling is in the competitive area, and is all about money.   There is no incentive for young people to strive to become elite in bowling regardless of the scoring environment.  It is about the people who arent starting, not the people quitting.

The numbers say otherwise.  I've been deeply involved with this for years, and have talked to everybody from the guy that comes to league once a week and throws it down the middle to guys at the top of the food chain in the sport.  If you have 9 million league bowlers at one point and now have 1.7 million . . that reflects people quitting.  The people that quit reduced it to a point where there is now no incentive to start.  However, with numbers continuing to fall, I don't know how it's NOT about the people quitting.  And if so many people are quitting golf, how is it such a lucrative sport?  You don't have many people who don't play or haven't played a sport that will watch it.  If people don't play golf, I daresay they aren't watching it.  The problem with bowling though is that even people that bowl aren't watching.  They see big numbers every week in league, what is the interest in watching pros shoot the same numbers? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

txbowler

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #133 on: April 17, 2013, 10:42:53 AM »
My wife has never played a round of golf in her life, never picked up a golf club in her life, and has no desired to ever play. 

If Tiger Woods is on TV in the finals of a golf tournament, she is watching.

Golf was saved by Tiger. 

End of discussion.

Gizmo823

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #134 on: April 17, 2013, 11:45:39 AM »
My wife has never played a round of golf in her life, never picked up a golf club in her life, and has no desired to ever play. 

If Tiger Woods is on TV in the finals of a golf tournament, she is watching.

Golf was saved by Tiger. 

End of discussion.

Yes, but what is the draw to watching Tiger?  And I don't believe golf was ever in trouble . . he just elevated it and brought it to a new audience.  But back to my point, why are people enamored with Tiger? 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

littlegreycat

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Re: Letter to USBC Re: the state of bowling
« Reply #135 on: April 17, 2013, 03:08:12 PM »
tiger was placed so high on a pedestal the fall was expected from such a young golfer. He was living in a time where Jordan was the standard of greatness winning and advertising and Tiger was asked to do the same from the moment he joined the pga. He crushed expectations Tiger was his own standard. No other player could compare his own year in year out performance.   people were comparing their golf to his only because Tiger was the only golfer they could name. I spent a lot of my 90's watching on the courses it was amazing lots of character and true enjoyment in the players faces. I haven't been at an event since maybe 2002 maybe it's still their idk.