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Author Topic: local association hall of fames  (Read 5023 times)

mfetterman

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local association hall of fames
« on: March 21, 2014, 06:20:15 PM »
Looking for some input on the voting processes and procedures used by different local associations for their hall of fames. I serve on the board of my local association and year by year our voting is dropping off and this year we did not have a single inductee. Our current process is that anyone who meets the nomination requirements can be nominated by any member of our association. Our voting is then done by the members of our board, association directors and all current living HOF members. Our current voting procedure is two stages. Stage one you can vote on up to three nominees and fifty percent of the vote is required to move onto stage 2. Stage 2 allows for a vote of up to two of the remaining nominees and requires a 75 percent vote for induction. Our main problem is lack of ballots we receive back. I think this year there were either 34 or 36 possible voters. Stage 1 we only got 21 ballots and stage 2 we only received 18. All board members and directors turned theirs in so it was all HOF members that we did not get votes from. This was the first year since 1980 that we did not have an inductee into our hall despite three nominees moving onto stage 2. 13 votes were needed for induction and the nominees received 12, 12 and 11 (despite one of them receiving 20 out of 21 in stage 1). I'm looking for input and suggestions either posted here or you could message me if that would be easier. As an association we don't know what we can do to increase our voting or if we need to change our current procedures and regulations. Any comparisons or differences between our association and your local would be appreciated. This is something that is going to be on the agenda for our next meeting. Any and all comments, suggestions, criticisms or whatever of our current process and procedure will be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any and help you may provide.

 

itsallaboutme

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2014, 07:32:02 AM »
If you want to take the politics out of the induction process you can go to a point system for achievements and then set a number of points needed for induction.  So many points for honor scores, so many for tournament wins, all star teams if you association has such thing, ect.

Otherwise the politics will always be involved.  A perfect example that I know of is Larry Laub not being put into the Arizona State HoF until 2006.

Gizmo823

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 08:55:45 AM »
Yeah, it shouldn't be a popularity contest, but unfortunately it is most places.  We have some guys in our local hall that shouldn't even be allowed to hold some other HOF's bowling towel.  Now sometimes you'll have special circumstances, like a guy here that hasn't bowled since he was in high school, but he's been writing a weekly bowling column for the local paper for the last 35 years . . without getting paid for it.  We felt that merited induction even though he hasn't bowled for 3 1/2 decades, and no points system would have put him in.  However, the vast majority of of inductees will be based on their bowling.  We also have guys here that by their numbers should be in the hall of fame, but they aren't because they aren't "old enough."  A points system would be the fairest way to go about it. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

avabob

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2014, 10:26:08 AM »
I don't know any hall of fames at any level in any sport that are based primarily on any kind of statistical basis.  No way to take judgment and opinions out of the process.  Even a statistical point system contains the prejudices of the people who design it with respect to what merits points, and how many. 

Gizmo823

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2014, 12:02:30 PM »
And I think therein lies the problem . .

I don't know any hall of fames at any level in any sport that are based primarily on any kind of statistical basis.  No way to take judgment and opinions out of the process.  Even a statistical point system contains the prejudices of the people who design it with respect to what merits points, and how many.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

itsallaboutme

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2014, 02:34:09 PM »
Here you go Bob.  Hall of Fame, Bowler of the Year, and All Star Teams.

http://www.gccusbc.com

itsallaboutme

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2014, 02:38:32 PM »
Another-

http://www.lpga.com/golf/news/criteria-for-the-lpga-tour-hall-of-fame.aspx

The LPGA has a veteran category that is based on voting, but if compile enough points there are no politics involved. 

coco3085

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2014, 06:24:30 PM »
as a board memeber of the local association, we just did some voting on bowler of the year, and hall of fame.  Hall of fame says that the person should have been bowling at least 10 years, bowled in the city tourney at least 10 years, held some sort of office, then we prefer to have someone who shoots nationals and other tourneys, and last, has been active within the association as a volunteer or other (like youth coaching, helping in tourneys ect.).

this year's HOF inductee has been in the association bowling for 22 years in a row, was a youth coach at a point in time, shoots every city tourney, and also our jackpot doubles tourney, and the adult youth tourney, and was association president for 5 years (this was a while ago) and also a league vp for a time.  to us this guy was a no brainer

just what we do

itsallaboutme

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2014, 06:43:39 PM »
That is the perfect example of why there needs to be two catagories, performance and meritorious service.

Mighty Fish

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2014, 01:49:45 PM »
If you want to take the politics out of the induction process you can go to a point system for achievements and then set a number of points needed for induction.  So many points for honor scores, so many for tournament wins, all star teams if you association has such thing, ect.

Otherwise the politics will always be involved.  A perfect example that I know of is Larry Laub not being put into the Arizona State HoF until 2006.
Dear itsallaboutme:

There may be some merits to a "point system" ... but such a system needs to be carefully thought out before putting it into use.

My local Hall of Fame tried such a system for a few years, but after several people were inducted under that system, there came a time in which I was the only potential inductee, and because they didn't want to elect me, there was no one deemed "eligible."

Before a "point system" would be put into effect, there logically should be a provision -- or a separate category, perhaps called Pioneer, in addition to bowling ability and meritorious service -- for non-members who may have had a stellar career in the '60s and '70s prior to the advent of THS, but their "numbers" would pale in comparison to modern-day scores; hence, they wouldn't come close to being "eligible" by any point standards.

Mighty Fish

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2014, 01:57:27 PM »
Yeah, it shouldn't be a popularity contest, but unfortunately it is most places.  We have some guys in our local hall that shouldn't even be allowed to hold some other HOF's bowling towel.  Now sometimes you'll have special circumstances, like a guy here that hasn't bowled since he was in high school, but he's been writing a weekly bowling column for the local paper for the last 35 years . . without getting paid for it.  We felt that merited induction even though he hasn't bowled for 3 1/2 decades, and no points system would have put him in.  However, the vast majority of of inductees will be based on their bowling.  We also have guys here that by their numbers should be in the hall of fame, but they aren't because they aren't "old enough."  A points system would be the fairest way to go about it. 
Dear Gizmo823:

Yeah, tell me about it.

In my area, the bowling Hall of Fame is nothing but a "popularity contest" ... and further, the Hall has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the local association or USBC. It is nothing but a "private club" that invites certain people into its "good-old-boys" organization.

It's also interesting that you mention a Hall member who didn't even bowl since high school, but he's written a bowling column for 35 years, and you imply that's his only Hall qualification (though in my opinion, not an insignificant one).

However, I've also written a local bowling column for 35 years, and I've never been inducted into the Hall. But that isn't my only qualification. In one 10-season stretch, I carried a higher average than anyone ever inducted into the Hall for six of those seasons, including four in a row. And I've won association tournament championships in five consecutive decades. I've also served as a league officer on more than 60 occasions, but apparently, I'm not considered Hall eligible by the "good-old-boys" club.

Mighty Fish

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2014, 02:12:44 PM »
Dear mfetterman:

In response to your original post ...

Even though, as I've stated, my local bowling Hall of Fame is nothing but a private club with no ties to the local association or USBC, your stated "rules" are similar to that of the Sarasota-Manatee County (Fla.) Bowling Hall of Fame.

As is the case with regard to your Hall, any association member can nominate someone for Hall consideration. And there are also two meetings to consider the nominees. On the first ballot, a 50 percent approval is required to advance a candidate to the second ballot, and a 75 percent approval is required for induction.

The major difference in our local Halls is that in your area, voting is done by the board, association directors and living Hall members. In my local Hall, the voting is done by HALL MEMBERS ONLY. And it doesn't matter how many qualifications a non-member has, there is a lot of personal bias (among current Hall members) in the voting.

For example, ALL of the following bowlers were longtime area residents, but none of them are in the Hall. Perhaps you've heard of some of them: LISA WAGNER, GIL SLIKER, STEVE NEFF, SKIP TUCKER, TED THOMPSON and many other well-qualified candidates that you almost certainly have never heard of.

Before becoming Female Bowler of The Decade, Lisa Rathgeber (later Lisa Wagner) had a stellar local league and tournament record, but even though she is in the Ladies Pro, USBC and Florida State Halls of Fame, she can't seem to manage to get inducted into the local Hall -- although I have no doubt that she could care less (because she understands the "politics" of it all).

mfetterman

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2014, 09:12:21 AM »
Thank you to those that replied. Any other ideas? I have some new stuff to bring up at our next meeting from the input I received. It really looks like we may be in a no win situation no matter what we decide. There are going to be cons to every scenario that we may come up with. Either people that may be "deserving" that are overlooked or people who have no business being a "Hall of Famer" getting inducted, and I'm still not really sure which one is worse. Maybe trying some kind of hybrid type nomination/voting process may be worth looking into. Maybe a points based system for nomination or consideration followed by a voting process. I guess our situation, and I mean bowling as a whole, not just our association, will always have problems like this. Just look at the other pro sports, especially baseball, which I'm not going to get into any type of debate over as I have many times with people and I even find myself changing my mind and opinions on people frequently.  Bonds and Rose? Based on a points system they are 100 percenters. Bonds on a voting system = not so much.  Rose = probably no chance till he and Selig are both gone and even then probably a long shot. Many others fall into the Bonds category. And then there are the Biggio's. Longevity, quality stats, represents what a pro ball player should be (I've not heard any negatives or suggestions otherwise) and even on the ballot with a ton of the recently questionable players and still doesn't get inducted.

Mighty Fish

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2014, 06:31:21 PM »
Yeah, it shouldn't be a popularity contest, but unfortunately it is most places.  We have some guys in our local hall that shouldn't even be allowed to hold some other HOF's bowling towel.
One example of such a Hall of Famer is Jim Elliott. I guarantee that all of the following is true, and is there anyone out there who feels that Jim Elliott should be in any area's bowling Hall of Fame?

* High lifetime game: 266
* High lifetime series: 613
* High lifetime average: 171
* Best tournament finish: 2nd in junior-adult HANDICAP event
* As association secretary, he was SUSPENDED by the American Bowling Congress.
* At many association annual meetings, delegates weren't given a printed financial statement, even upon request.
* At an ABC fact-finding hearing, he testified (under oath): "WE HAVE NEVER HAD A FINANCIAL STATEMENT. There is nothing in ABC rules that says we have to have a financial statement." (Then, at a later fact-finding hearing, he totally denied having said that, even though he was presented a copy of the court reporter's transcript indicating that he had, indeed, said it).
* When he finally was forced (by ABC) to provide financial statements, for four consecutive annual meetings, delegates received INACCURATE financial information.
* An ABC fact-finding committee found that association financial records were insufficient and inadequate, which prevented an accurate determination of all income and expenses.
* An ABC fact-finding committee's findings: "The financial records were inadequate ... and the printed financial statement was deceiving.
* The ABC own auditors, headed by John Heindel, came to the following conclusion: "We cannot understand how (the association secretary) arrived at many of the figures used in the financial statements. We tried various combinations AND FINALLY GAVE UP IN FRUSTRATION."

astrodanco

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Re: local association hall of fames
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2014, 12:28:30 AM »
Fish, that should be the hall of infamy, should it not?