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Author Topic: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl  (Read 15610 times)

channel surfer

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Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« on: February 01, 2005, 02:26:44 PM »


http://wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=2887442
EDIT: Also added: http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=81479&ran=49013

From what I know, he does almost every southern regional event, and has at least 1 title under his belt.

Guess he wont be getting any more titles anytime soon.
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Edited on 2/1/2005 11:23 PM

Edited on 2/1/2005 11:30 PM

Edited on 2/1/2005 11:31 PM

Edited on 2/2/2005 12:01 PM
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Scolai

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2005, 12:51:16 PM »
Good ol' Rags.  Capable of seeing BOTH the forest and the trees simultaneously.
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Scolai

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bamaster

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2005, 12:52:17 PM »
Here's my thought.

In this case, to justify the cause is to justify the effect.  This wasn't an accident.  No one accidentally shakes a baby.  I am confident this wasn't premeditated, but that doesn't make it NOT murder... to me.  The death of this child was avoidable... very avoidable.

Similarly, if a drunk driver drives home and runs head on into another car killing a family of five... is it murder?  Surely it wasn't premeditated. Surely it was an accident that he crossed into the opposing lane. But it is still a murderous act, is it not?  It too was avoidable.

Obviously, something else could have happened to cause this.  However, he was by himself with the child and the child had brain trauma.  He'll surely get convicted unless someone else came into thr house and did it.  If it's a murder conviction is a matter for the courts to decide.  Nevertheless, it is an act of violence that resulted in death... sounds like murder to me... albeit second degree.
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Ragnar

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2005, 12:53:34 PM »
quote:
Good ol' Rags.  Capable of seeing BOTH the forest and the trees simultaneously.
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None are more hopelessly enslaved, as those who falsely believe they are free....


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michelle

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2005, 01:18:12 PM »
Has there been a release of the coroner's report?  Or are we all basing the sentence prior to trial on the issue of fact on the media account of this appearing to be a "shaken baby" case?  After all, we all know how accurate the media can be about reporting stuff...

My comments very early in the thread are based upon real cases with real clients where there were real arrest reports and real autopsy reports.  There are a number of cases where prosecutorial overreach contributes to an initial charge of Murder (such as in Joey's case) and where the facts of the matter later prove up that no criminal offense occurred.  

I am appalled at the rush to judgment...I expect it from some of the kids on the site, but I really thought that there would be more of the adults that would wait for the full fact of the matter to come out before passing judgment.
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Left-Factor

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2005, 01:23:34 PM »
Rags,

Agree with the "presumption of innocence" philosophy.  But have to differ on the "it is possible the kid may have fell from a table or something" part.  When a child is shaken in anger and frustration, the force is multiplied 5 or 10 times more than it would be if the child had simply tripped and fallen. That force is repeated many times in succession while the child is being shaken.  To a trained medical professional, the difference between the two injuries are quite remarkable and distinguishable.  Vigorously shaking a child repeatedly pitches the brain in different directions.  Those sudden motions can cause some parts of the brain to pull away, tearing brain cells and blood vessels in the process. This tearing doesn't occur in a fall.  A fall would result in only a pitch in a single direction, with external signs of impact.  

If there were signs of a single impact to the head and blunt force trauma findings consistent with a fall, things might be different.  At least charges more in line with negligence, or no charges at all.  My "guess" (disclaimer) is that pathology showed significant non-localized tearing of brain cells and blood vessels, along with bruising on the childs arms consistent with being gripped very tightly. This is more likely why he was charged with second degree murder.  

Either way, we should pray for Joey's redemption.  Not his punishment.  
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bamaster

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2005, 01:28:37 PM »
quote:

Either way, we should pray for Joey's redemption.  Not his punishment.  


Well said.

Wonder if the mother might be at fault a little here, too.
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Ragnar

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #37 on: February 03, 2005, 01:55:50 PM »
Left-Factor, you sound as though you know whereof you speak, so I'll defer to you.  Still, I'd like (as Michelle said) to see all the autopsy reports, etc., before passing judgement.  Sure seems that Joey is responsible in some manner for this, but I'd like to be very sure before I convicted him.
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Strike300

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #38 on: February 03, 2005, 05:10:44 PM »
I never lose my temper with my 8 month year old niece. She's here the majority of the time. I care 4 her more than I do myself. I wouldn't do anything that would come close to hurting her let alone shaking a baby. If your 24 years old & irresponsible enough not to watch that babies every move you shouldn't be watching them in the first place. So you can STFU. He's an adult and needs to be put to death if he killed that poor child.

Edited on 2/3/2005 6:14 PM
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Strike300

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #39 on: February 03, 2005, 05:22:21 PM »
Are we to assume that you've never lost your temper and done something rash that you later regretted? Sure have.   More times than I can count I've gotten pissed off and done something stupid. Get mad, punch something, nearly break a hand...that kind of stupidity. Thats your stupidity at least you took it out on yourself. He was (presumably) angry - either the child wouldn't listen, or was crying, or some other thing a child does - and he (presumably) shook the child too hard. Why in the fock would you shake a child. R people that retarted? As I've said before: Stop talking. It makes you sound ignorant. My mouth my opinion.
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brenttsr

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #40 on: February 03, 2005, 05:39:03 PM »
NO EXCUSE YOU SHOULD GO FOR A WALK OR SOMETHING, HE SHOULD PAY FOR WHAT HE HAS DONE, I HAVE 2 BOYS 8 AND 4 AND WHEN THEY WERE SMALLER I WOULD HAVE NEVER SHAKEN THEM NO MATTER HOW CRANKY THEY WERE. HE SHOULD GET THE DEATH PENALTY IF THAT IS WHAT HE DID.
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a_ak57

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2005, 05:40:09 PM »
Hey, here's a crazy thought.  How about we comment AFTER the trial, and we know all the facts and if he's innocent/guilty?

Nahhh, that makes sense, we can't do that.
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michelle

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2005, 05:44:32 PM »
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that strike300 has never seen a casefile on a case charged such as Joey is dealing with...after you have seen some of the autopsy reports in those types of cases where there was prosecutorial overreach, then come back and tell me to STFU.

Oh, and I haven't even gone into the other categories of errant accusations...where the charged party was not the proximate cause of the damage but had the misfortune of being the person present at the time of death.  



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Strike300

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #43 on: February 03, 2005, 05:48:23 PM »
These are nothing but mere opinions. He is an adult. He knew what his actions could cause. People are always trying to make excuses for what they have done instead of manning up and taking the punishment for there poor decisions. Personally he would have been in the hospital also.
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Strike300

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #44 on: February 03, 2005, 05:52:17 PM »
As a matter of fact I have. Yes the media and prosecution does overreach. What I'm saying is if he did that he needs to DIE. Point blank period. People need to be responsible and not abuse these KIDS. KIDS. They don't know ne wrong. Adults do! REAL ADULTS!
Edited on 2/3/2005 6:51 PM

Edited on 2/3/2005 6:51 PM
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brenttsr

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Re: Local PBA member charged for murdering a 2 year old girl
« Reply #45 on: February 03, 2005, 05:54:25 PM »
I AGREE STRIKE300
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