Aloha BR Forum!

It's been some time, for sure.  I hope everyone's well. 

I'd like to thank everybody for the help in advance.

As the title states, I'm in the market for a heavy oil help.  I've been doing a lot of research lately, both on gear and my game, to make the best decision possible.  Here's what I've learned about my game:

• Speed: Between 16.5 - 17.5 mph
• Revs: ~325RPM
• Axis Tilt: ~20°
• Axis Rotation: ~55°

My speed plus my axis tilt/rotation creates so much extra skid at the back of the pattern, that heavier/longer patterns are VERY tricky for me. My rotation also creates a VERY quick response to friction. 

I've tried a few different options for heavy oil.  One was a pin-up aggressive, asymmetric ball (something like 50x4.25x40), and that gave me a ton of over-under.  Another was a pin-down aggressive, asymmetric ball (something like 35x4x75), and the ball read pretty good when the heads were good, but became REALLY jump once the heads started to wear away.  Any sign of friction, and the ball read.  A final option I tried was a pin up aggressive, symmetric ball with what my driller called a "Mo Hole," after Mo Pinel. It was a hole 180° opposite my grip center.  This actually gave me the best results out of the three options, but still had inconsistencies.

With that in mind, I'm thinking of two different options. I'd love your feedback on these options, or any original thoughts you may have for my dilemma.

Option #1: Drilling an aggressive, asymmetric ball (either a Ruckus Feud or a Hyper Cell) pin next to ring, on the shorter side of 3 and 3/8 inches, with the MB kicked out towards the VAL.  Maybe something like 30x3x75.  My thought process here is to layout a ball with tons of built-in hook to flare a lot and set up smoothly after exiting the pattern. And when the lanes breakdown, I'll get a more gradual read of the earlier friction instead of the insta-read that I currently get.

Option #2: Drilling a slightly lesser aggressive, symmetric ball (I'm thinking IQ Tour Nano, Revolt or Forza) as aggressively as possible, and adjusting the surface to 1k or 1.5k abralon. My thought process here is to have the ball flare as much as possible and using surface to create the smoother transition. And since these balls have a relatively weaker cover than the Feud/Hyper Cell, I could use them for longer and maybe even use them to open up the lanes a little bit (when applicable, of course).

And there you have it. What do you guys think? Cheers!
Steve, aka: n00dlejester

Here's one thing to consider with Asymmetric cores.

Max flare is between 2.5 and 6 inches from PAP. The shorter the distance, the more axis rotation will be retained. A longer pin to pap on asymmetric cores will burn off axis rotation thus creating a smoother reaction after exiting the pattern.

Based on your options, you could drill a stronger asymmetric ball with a 5-5.5 inch pin to pap or you could drill a stronger symmetric ball with a lower pin to pap around 2.5-3 inches

Symmetric cores are opposite and retain rotation with higher pin to pap

+1

I agree in increasing the Pin-to-PAP distance on an asymmetric.  And always look at surface.

Its not going to be slower response, the 30 VAL angle is going to transition fast, but the 5 inch pin to pap will make it roll forward sooner because its burning your tilt on an asymetrical...So dont confuse the transition phase... On a symetrical 5 is going to push further down lane because it flares less....

Surface is everything!!!!  Surface has a greater impact on ball motion than layouts do. 

EX:  I drill two symmetric mid priced balls; one with a 5.5 inch pin to PAP and the other 4 inch pin to PAP.  With the surfaces being the same, I may see a board of so more hook out of the 4 inch pin than the 5.5 inch pin (according to Blueprint).  Now; I take 1 symmetric mid priced ball that comes out of the box at 4000 abralon w/polish and throw it and then take that same ball and drop it down to 1000 abralon with no polish; I am going to see the ball at 1000 transition much sooner and be much less angular on the backend than the ball at 4000 w/polish.  I believe that surface is going to benefit you more than worrying about whether you need a 3 inch pin to PAP or a 5 inch pin to PAP.

Surface is everything!!!!  Surface has a greater impact on ball motion than layouts do. 

EX:  I drill two symmetric mid priced balls; one with a 5.5 inch pin to PAP and the other 4 inch pin to PAP.  With the surfaces being the same, I may see a board of so more hook out of the 4 inch pin than the 5.5 inch pin (according to Blueprint).  Now; I take 1 symmetric mid priced ball that comes out of the box at 4000 abralon w/polish and throw it and then take that same ball and drop it down to 1000 abralon with no polish; I am going to see the ball at 1000 transition much sooner and be much less angular on the backend than the ball at 4000 w/polish.  I believe that surface is going to benefit you more than worrying about whether you need a 3 inch pin to PAP or a 5 inch pin to PAP.

You bring up a very valid point.  Unfortunately, sometimes surface makes things tricky for me.  Part of my struggles is my high axis tilt & rotation. Because of this, my gear tends to read the friction VERY hard.  A ball with a lot of surface will read the slightest of friction pretty hard, and just poop out before it hits the pins.  I'm looking for that magic mix of layout and surface that will give me a good mesh of read and energy retention. 

Given what I learned today about asym layouts for balls with high intermediate differentials, I now know WHY my asym gear has a history of over/under reactions. And also why that symmetric piece w/a  "Mo Hole" gave me the most consistent reaction.

I look forward to drilling up my next heavy oil piece! 

Noodle

I'm in the same boat as you are. Especially with asymetrical equipment. Higher tilt had caused me issues until I understood why

I'm very happy I'm not the only one! Haha =)

I'm 26 degrees of tilt and 60 rotation. I started drilling my asyms with 5 -5.5 inch pap when I was using in heavy oil. Never surface lower than 2000 and it has helped me. Total angles around 90.  35x5x55. 30x5.5x60. Always worked. I didn't do that on my Jackal and it hasn't been an issue as long as there is oil. I also never use low holes if I want any surface on a asymetrical. That for me made it worse, I would slide in a flood and burn up on anything else. I gave up on asyms for a while. Now low holes on symetrical equipment for me are always a positive..lol


Had a hyper cell, 40x5x35 P3. Couldn't do anything with it.  Same issue you see, either not reading or hitting like a marshmallow. Plugged the P3, P2 instead and it changed the ball greatly. But still could use it rarely. Sold it. Then bought another. Went 35x5.5x60.  Ball was great for me. I threw that at 2000 on oil and it was a beast.
Tried different on jackal because it looked like cover was a bit cleaner than hyper cell. So far so good. Only thrown it twice once at 4000 on a ths, had to put it away because the backend was crazy but it did t burn up, then this weekend at 2000 games 5/6 of a tourney where the backends got very tight and sloppy. It got down lane ok when I moved in and was only ball in house moving on backend. I was impressed.
I think because asyms read so hard and fast for me that why I usually get good or bad and nothing in between.

I do agree that surface is king, and with symetrical equipment that 100% dead on for me, but asyms are way touchier with my release.

Quote from: todvan on February 24, 2015, 06:49:03 AM

Same here with the tilt and rotation.  Over/under if too shiny, dead ball at the pins if too dull.  What is your solution VK?

I would think that somewhere around 3000 abralon with no polish would be the happy medium between surface and shiny.  Just smooth enough to get through the fronts and yet just enough surface to smooth out the backend.  Your thoughts?

Funny you say that, 3000 is my "go to" surface. Especially on THS.....on my Venom Shock it is the surface of choice on both ths and flat patterns...