Post by: aussiedave on February 10, 2012, 05:26:58 AM
I just got my first PAP measurement done and also bowled at a different center that actually measured your ball speed for you, so armed with this new knowledge I wanted to pick some brains out there for their ball recommendations.
PAP is 4 1/2 Rt and 1" up - ball speed is in the 13 -14 m.p.h range. I bowl semi-roller, right hand.
I am looking for a strong but predictable move to the pocket.
Looking forward to hearing from y'all on this one, thanks in advance.
ad.
Post by: completebowler on February 10, 2012, 01:37:43 PM
Roto Grip Defiant is a great option. It is priced slightly lower than other top end balls and is a bit more of a controlled arc than the others I've seen.
If you want a cheaper option the Gamechanger, Arson, Bandit, Victory Road Solid would all get the job done. None of those are in the same league as the Defiant but they are good options.
ALL STAR BOWLING & TROPHY
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LANGAN'S ALL STAR LANES
IBPSIA MEMBER
WALLED LAKE MI
Post by: Cobalt Bomb on February 10, 2012, 01:45:23 PM
As complete said, Defiant is a good choice. I would also recommend the Marvel.
Post by: aussiedave on February 10, 2012, 02:06:22 PM
Well thnx very much for the quick replies!
Appreciate your input.
ad.
Post by: ImBackInTheGame on February 10, 2012, 02:16:24 PM
Post by: aussiedave on February 10, 2012, 03:46:23 PM
We do get oil to bowl on - they condition the lanes about 2 hours prior to our league start.
I am not a big turner of the ball - probably closer to a tweener from what I can ascertain.
The lanes are synthetic and they usually use a typical house shot pattern, and vary the lengths occasionally.
Those were great questions btw - I should have thought of those before hand.
ad.
Edited by aussiedave on 2/10/2012 at 4:47 PM
Edited by aussiedave on 2/10/2012 at 4:48 PM
Post by: spmcgivern on February 13, 2012, 07:46:51 AM
Without knowing more details about your game and ability, I would have difficulty recommending high end equipment. Your ball speed is a little on the slow side and with no mention of your rev rate how can anyone make a recommendation.
Have your pro-shop operator watch you bowl and get a suggestion from them. Once you have your information (rev rate, rotation, tilt) then many of the more knowledgeable people here can make some suggestions or you can use this forum as a backboard to see if there is some consistency between your driller and other drillers here. Ultimately, you want to have a good relationship with the person who is drilling your equipment and hopefully they are staying up to date on the current trends and equipment. But ultimately, I hope for you they aren't in the business to sell you the newest high end expensive ball just for their own benefit. For all I know, a Roto Grip Riot is a better option for you than a Defiant.
I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com
Post by: dizzyfugu on February 13, 2012, 09:03:42 AM
Second that. With lower speed, high end pieces can be VERY touchy and condition-specific, so be warned. If you wnat something versatile, I'd rather go with a symmetrcial mid-range ball, a simple, solid reactive - esp. when you want a "multi-purpose" piece. Such a ball offers you a wider range of utility and margin for error than, say, a nervous and utterly (uber) strong asymmetrical/high mass bias piece. And you save some bucks!
Almost any manufacturer has something in their arsenal that fills this role, and you should think about the conditions you want to use the piece. If you play THS, IMHO something like a Karma Solid or a Solaris Blackout will be "enough". When you know that you play on longer an heavier volumes, you might consider something with a lower RG core, a higher differential and a more aggressive cover (and a coarser surface).
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
2010/11 Benrather BC Club Champion
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 13, 2012, 09:29:29 AM
First thing we should have asked is: What is your rev rate? Are you a cranker, stroker, tweener? That will play ALOT into recommending a ball; especially when you are only at 13-14 mph. You have no need for a high end ball with that low ball speed, period! You really do not need anything dull, either. If you are a stroker type, you could go with something like a Ebonite Elevate. If you have a higher rev rate, stay lower with something like a Columbia Freeze or Ebonite Cyclone or Storm Tropical Heat Hybrid.
Rev rate is the biggest factor we need to know to give you a true recommendation!
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: trash heap on February 13, 2012, 11:03:27 AM
Be careful about using ball speed from the center. Its usually done on the last section of the lane. Your ball speed might be a little higher. A ball can significantly slow down at the end of the lane.
There is a calculation for speed by just using a stop watch. Start the timer at foul line (at release) and stop it when the ball hits the pins. Some one probably can provide you with it right now. I don't have my notes on me at this time, but will return later tonight with the number.
Post by: Mbosco on February 13, 2012, 01:20:43 PM
Hey, you sound a lot like me! Twohand is right that you'll rarely, if ever, need a really high end bowling ball. I use pretty exclusively low end or fairly old equipment on every condition I've ever played, and I know I'd never be able to control the top end monsters with my low ball speed (I've tried a couple times and it was UGLY). I do think you may need something dull (eventually), depending on the volume of oil you plan on bowling on. Even on a THS if it's heavy, I sometimes go down as far as 500 (but I sand my own stuff, so it's not a big deal). I think as far as core type, you're probably better off with a symmetrical ball.
If you're not bowling on heavy oil, I'd recommend a Brunswick Slingshot drilled strong. I think it would fit your game rather nicely.
Post by: aussiedave on February 13, 2012, 04:18:47 PM
For those who asked - I am an ordinary turner of the ball, nothing special there. Standard semi-roller - don't have a clue as to how many revs that is. Stroker.
I stand wide on 5th dot (left hand side) and put it over the 4th (from right) arrow. I do this to keep it on as much oil as possible.
League av is 167. I am 54.
Thnx.
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Edited by aussiedave on 2/13/2012 at 5:19 PM
Edited by aussiedave on 2/13/2012 at 5:21 PM
Post by: aussiedave on February 13, 2012, 04:33:06 PM
Hey, you sound a lot like me! Twohand is right that you'll rarely, if ever, need a really high end bowling ball. I use pretty exclusively low end or fairly old equipment on every condition I've ever played, and I know I'd never be able to control the top end monsters with my low ball speed (I've tried a couple times and it was UGLY). I do think you may need something dull (eventually), depending on the volume of oil you plan on bowling on. Even on a THS if it's heavy, I sometimes go down as far as 500 (but I sand my own stuff, so it's not a big deal). I think as far as core type, you're probably better off with a symmetrical ball.
If you're not bowling on heavy oil, I'd recommend a Brunswick Slingshot drilled strong. I think it would fit your game rather nicely.
Nice to meet someone who has similar style!
I thought of the Slingshot, and also am considering the Grape Vibe by Hammer. I wonder if the Vibe would cut hard if drilled aggressively?
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Post by: Walking E on February 13, 2012, 05:19:33 PM
Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Also a member of ROB STONE NATION
Post by: tommyboy74 on February 13, 2012, 05:45:34 PM
The Defiant is a great ball and I am getting my own drilled up soon. However, with lower speed, high end stuff can be very touchy. You may be better off going with something such as the Infinite Theory which is still a stronger piece but cleaner up front than the Defiant. It will allow you to play most house shots while handling heavier volume if needed.
A lot of the Track stuff is really good as of late. An option from that brand would be the 607A-SE. It's got a nice strong core in it and is great on a house shot. Just like the Infinite Theory, it can allow you to play up to heavier volume when needed.
A lot of the Track stuff is really good as of late. An option from that brand would be the 607A-SE. It's got a nice strong core in it and is great on a house shot. Just like the Infinite Theory, it can allow you to play up to heavier volume when needed.
My arsenal
Heavy Oil: Storm Virtual Gravity Nano: 2000 AB
Medium-Heavy Oil: Storm Anarchy: 1500 polished
Medium-Heavy Oil: Track 919C: 3000 AB
Medium-Heavy Oil: Ebonite Vital Energy: 4000 AB
Medium Oil: Roto Grip Nomad Dagger: 1500 polished
Medium-Heavy Oil: Storm Anarchy: 1500 polished
Medium-Heavy Oil: Track 919C: 3000 AB
Medium-Heavy Oil: Ebonite Vital Energy: 4000 AB
Medium Oil: Roto Grip Nomad Dagger: 1500 polished
Medium-Light Oil: Roto Grip Rising Star: 1500 polished
Edited by tommyboy74 on 2/13/2012 at 6:49 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 14, 2012, 10:09:10 AM
With that said; what are you using currently playing that deep on the lane? Compared to it, do you want something that hooks less or a little more?
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: aussiedave on February 14, 2012, 02:23:33 PM
My current piece is a black/silver Tropical Storm and yes, I get plenty of turn with it. If anything, if the lane is really dry once off the oil pattern, it tends to bite just a little too hard and this gets me into trouble. Sometimes it goes that little bit further before biting sometimes sooner - it can be a bit of a lottery and I am pretty sure my action is fairly consistent.
So to answer, I would like something that hooks about as much as this one, but perhaps a bit smoother or predictable once off the oil?
Thnx.
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Edited by aussiedave on 2/14/2012 at 3:24 PM
Edited by aussiedave on 2/14/2012 at 3:25 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 14, 2012, 02:30:00 PM
Definitely stay away from high end stuff then. Have you thought about taking the Tropical and say go to a 2000 abralon finish with no polish? That would smoothen out the reaction for you and save you money in the long run.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: aussiedave on February 14, 2012, 04:11:05 PM
Would the 2000 Abralon make a duller surface?
And does that increase or decrease the amount of hook or just smooth out the hook arc?
Thanks for the suggestions.
ad.
Post by: Walking E on February 14, 2012, 06:11:04 PM
Official Member of the BrunsTrackColumStormHammEboRotoBuzzAMF Nation!
Also a member of ROB STONE NATION
Post by: Tex on February 14, 2012, 06:50:27 PM
I feel pretty safe recommending the 900 Global Eagle to about anyone. Nice ball, plenty strong with good carry. As some one mentioned earlier, the 900 Hook is a great step down from the Eagle. I have the blue Hook and carry is really amazing for a ball that is supposed to be a weak cover and simple core.
Roll with 900 Global.
Made in Texas!
Post by: spmcgivern on February 15, 2012, 07:14:35 AM
I would first try adding some surface to your Tropical Heat. If that is hooking too much or too early, then the next option in the Storm family is the Tropical Breeze. Would be a definite step down from your Tropical Heat.
If you want to try something other than Storm, a Brunswick Slingshot would be the best option for reactive. Other than that, most of the urethanes would be good. I am partial to the Brunswick Avalanche Urethane, but I am sure the others are similar and just as good.
I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 15, 2012, 10:32:46 AM
Dave,
The ball comes polished at 1500 grit w/polish. The polish is what makes the ball jumpy on the backend. By taking the ball to 1000 to knock off the shine and then take it to 2000, it will still have a sheen appearance and still allow the ball to get down the lane. By not having the polish over the 2000, it will make the backend a little more controllable for you.
Polish helps a ball to retain energy. The more energy retained, the more flip you will see on the backend. By taking the ball and stepping down to a sheen finish, it will help the ball to lose a little bit of that energy thus making the backend smoother. It will still hook overall similar to the box finish, but be a tad earlier and a tad smoother.
I would try the surface adjustment first and then see if you really need a new ball. Worst case scenario, the ball is still too jumpy for your liking and you can have the pro shop add polish back to it which takes 90 seconds if that.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.