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Author Topic: Lost $800 on a 10 pin  (Read 2336 times)

TTforshort

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Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« on: March 30, 2007, 12:57:33 AM »
Last night was the playoff for our mixed league. This is a match play scoring league with 21 points allowed in a series. As we began the 3 team playoff, the secretary pointed out the scoring for the playoff was the same as regular league scoring.  I quickly pointed out that the USBC rule 113b (1c) stated that when more than two teams were in a playoff, total pins would decide the winner. He ran off in a frenzy. When returned red faced, he angrily stated I was right.

The shot last night was a little oiler than normal. Our lead off bowler was sick so we pulled in a sub. For the night,I was +30. My wife was +50. The leadoff and our anchor were both about -40.

To make a long story short, we lost to a team with the most handicap. With the extra oil on the lanes, their plastic, down the middle prevailed. Most of the winning team bowled some where around +20 for the night.

To add insult to injury, we lost total pins by 1 pin. The winning team received $1600. We got $800 for the night but it was tainted by the house shot, which is difficult to start with, being slicker.

The outcome of the playoff would have been very different had I picked up one of the three 10 pins I whiffed. While we had extra oil in the middle, the backends were dry. My White Dot was moving 5 boards in the last 10 feet. I couldn't swing it because the oil pattern put it in the ditch. Straight up the the twig, the WD hit near the pocket. Standing 25 and targeting the 15 board was the shot but I just was off a board or two and couldn't find the right board.

I hope I learned a lesson last night. Both of my other two teams will also be in the playoffs. I will not lose again by a 10 pin.


TT


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shipper50

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2007, 09:20:42 AM »
All the leagues I ever bowled on didnt allow subs during play offs. Things must have changed since the stone age huh?

Shipper

Strike300

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2007, 10:51:06 AM »
quote:
All the leagues I ever bowled on didnt allow subs during play offs. Things must have changed since the stone age huh?

Shipper


No not much. When I bowled league a few years ago they wouldn't of allowed a sub in the playoffs.

Ragnar

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2007, 10:56:38 AM »
:threateningvoiceon:You'll not be missing any 10 pins in June, will you?  :threateningvoiceoff:
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qstick777

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2007, 12:22:58 PM »
quote:
The outcome of the playoff would have been very different had I picked up one of the three 10 pins I whiffed. While we had extra oil in the middle, the backends were dry. My White Dot was moving 5 boards in the last 10 feet. I couldn't swing it because the oil pattern put it in the ditch. Straight up the the twig, the WD hit near the pocket. Standing 25 and targeting the 15 board was the shot but I just was off a board or two and couldn't find the right board.

 


Kill the wrist and throw straight at those single pin spares!   At least that's what "they" say.
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302efi

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2007, 01:09:46 PM »
quote:


To make a long story short, we lost to a team with the most handicap....


...and yet people think the system is legit ?

Damn all the high handicapers to hell I say !
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Matt Fortney

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2007, 01:15:56 PM »
subs are allowed in our roll-offs as long as they have 21 games in on the league. that hurts about the 10 pins too! it happens to everyone though.

Matt

myrddin97

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2007, 03:12:27 PM »
quote:

...and yet people think the system is legit ?

Damn all the high handicapers to hell I say !



By my math, the OP's team was about even average wise, while his opponents were +80 for the night-and they still only lost by one stick.  Am I missing something here?  I don't see the argument against handicap here.  Granted, the "better" team appears to have lost, but as a team they bowled average while everybody on the other team was able to find a way to bowl a little better according to their ability.

Just so this is out in the open, I'm by no means a high average bowler.  My book average is 177 from last year, and this year, unless I pull something out of thin air, I'll be just about there at the end of this year-currently 176.  I'm somewhat disappointed, seeing how I honestly believe I should be in the low to mid 180's considering I feel I'm throwing the ball better than I did last year, but that's besides the point.  I know, I and my team have been helped by our averages (on any given night we have 4 bowlers with mid to upper 170 averages and our anchor/captain is currently throwing 190 after have a couple bad weeks and his average dropping a couple sticks) but that doesn't change the fact we still have to bowl.  With handicap, you're bowling as much against yourself as you are the person/team next to you.

302efi

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2007, 03:25:51 PM »
myrddin97- What happens on nights where you get lucky, string a few X's, carry some off hits and shot a 620 scratch set ?

Lets say the handicap is 100% of 220.

176 x 3 = 528

You shoot 620 scratch

620 - 528 = 92 Pins....712 with handicap

You think thats "fair" ?

A 220 avg bowler still has to shoot 62 over his 660 set to tie you. We all know it harder to shoot 712 scratch then it is 620 scratch.

You tell me.  

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302efi

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #9 on: March 30, 2007, 03:38:59 PM »
quote:
That's why the freaking handicap exists in the first place.


So because someone is a better bowler they should penalized ?

Whats the point of praticing and becoming a better bowler if you automaticly get pins when bowling against someone with "more skill" thats put time and effort into his game ?

Is there a handicap in basketball ? Football ? Soccer ? Tennis ?

Name one other sport/game besides golf where the better player or team has to give give up points/score because they are better ?
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When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

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myrddin97

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #10 on: March 30, 2007, 04:02:27 PM »
Well for one thing, I would think I was bowling at the level I think I should be, but that isn't the point.

I do see your point and if I has the 200+ average vs 176 and I had to shoot 700 just to have a chance, I would be frustrated too.  But I know somebody said this before, it comes down to the law of averages.  I think I've had maybe 3-4 600's this year and I've only missed 2 maybe 3 weeks in the season.  We don't have individual points in our league, shot down because a couple teams could figure out the math, so it's purely a team event.  Just because I shoot 700 w/ handicap doesn't mean the rest of my team doesn't have to bowl.  If they shoot less than their average and our oppenents each find a way to shoot.

Let me put it this way.  Using your handicap of 100% of 220 and just to make the math easier, lets say my team as a whole averages 895 (175, 175, 175, 180, 190)  That would give us a series handicap of 615.

We're bowling a team who averages 1000 (5x200).  They would get 300 pins.  I bowl my good/lucky 620 but everyone else  on my team struggles, especially our higher average bowlers and each shoot 510 (ave 170).  

We shoot 2660 + 615 = 3275

They shoot average 3000 + 300 = 3300

I bowled well, but we still lost and not by much.  There's a place for handicap and scratch leagues/tournament.  I know scratch leagues are hard(er) to find but they're out there.

My question is, you obviously know what you're getting into.  And I have been on the other side of the fence, bowling a team of 130-150 ave bowlers (if that).  We bowled alright, but nothing great, I think they each averaged 500 and we didn't walk away with any points.  But when we faced them earlier in year, I beleive we took all 7.  Oh, and the time they lost, their anchor was complaining they didn't have enough handicap.  I know I did the linups that night, including their handicap and I had to ask our anchor to double check the math and make sure I was adding it up right.

Edited on 3/30/2007 4:11 PM

Edited on 3/30/2007 4:17 PM

302efi

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #11 on: March 30, 2007, 04:15:15 PM »
quote:
There's a place for handicap and scratch leagues/tournament. I know scratch leagues are hard(er) to find but they're out there.  


Your exactly right

Around my area there is not a scratch league to be found

You got maybe 10 guys that will do it and thats it. People are scared to actually death to bowl stright up, thats how the vision of handicap has blurred everything.

I'm on my local ceneter managers tema and he tells me he has to sit in most the all league meetings to make sure the handicap system stay nice and high so he has happy bowlers every year. Sad, but true.

How did bowler get this far in debt ?

I mean bowlers have it all:

- Walled lanes
- Super strong automatic scoring and hooking balls

Why need the big 'caps ?
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When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

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jrals1

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2007, 04:17:24 PM »
I don't usually post much on here, but I do read quite a bit.  After reading all you people whine about handicap leagues, why do you bowl in them?  

This is really to 302efi, you said why are bowling and golf the only two sports with handicaps? No there really isn't any.  Do you know why?  Because other sports are played on the same level of competition.  The sports you see are the best of the best playing each other.  If the major leagues let anyone in to play at any point, there would be a handicap system, or the dominant players would destroy their competition.  

For you, maybe you should try bowling to your competition level if you dont like it.  Bowl scratch leagues, make a league up where the bottom average is a certain amount.  

 


302efi

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2007, 04:34:37 PM »
quote:
I don't usually post much on here, but I do read quite a bit.  After reading all you people whine about handicap leagues, why do you bowl in them?  

This is really to 302efi, you said why are bowling and golf the only two sports with handicaps? No there really isn't any.  Do you know why?  Because other sports are played on the same level of competition.  The sports you see are the best of the best playing each other.  If the major leagues let anyone in to play at any point, there would be a handicap system, or the dominant players would destroy their competition.  

For you, maybe you should try bowling to your competition level if you dont like it.  Bowl scratch leagues, make a league up where the bottom average is a certain amount.  

 


I'm not talking about the best of the best and whats on TV !

Is there handicap in any high school sports ?

Junior high sports ?

What about little league ?!?!?!

Pick-up games at a local park ??

NO !!!

Why does ADULT bowlers need handicap ?  LOL

Almost makes you laugh to think about it

"Im not good enough as Bob, give me some pins so its even" LOL !!!!
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When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"

Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...

myrddin97

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Re: Lost $800 on a 10 pin
« Reply #14 on: March 30, 2007, 04:49:56 PM »
@302efi

I think the reason is, in bowling (and golf) you can play as much against yourself as your opponent.  I can't think of any other sports where you can do this.  I think that's why there's a legit place for handicap bowling.

Oh, and I know it's not professional, but what about in shows like Pinks where two cars are racing on a 1/4 mile and one gets extra car lengths to make is more about the drivers and how they're vehicle holds up than it is about how fast the car can get to the finish.  Is that "fair?"

Oh, and if you're close to the manager of your center, why don't you try to get him to put out a slightly more difficult shot over time, getting your bowlers use to it and hopefully better?  I'm in agreement about the wall shot and I bowl in a house where it isn't as big.  If you want to throw like that, the shot is there, but you better be able to control it, or you're not going to score that often.