Author Topic: I found this quote on another thread... (Read 5987 times)

mumzie · « **on:** April 18, 2008, 01:54:14 AM »

and rather than hijack the womens collegiate bowling thread, I thought I'd start a new one.

The comment was

quote:
Some of the girls were rather large which would definitely cut down on accuracy.

I personally am offended by this remark...
I'm 'rather large' - and the biggest flaw in my game IS my accuracy. I'm too accurate for today's game. And - admittedly - if I were narrower, I'd have more boards available to move, but as far as I know, that's the only issue.

Comments?
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We Know What Bowlers Want

Pinbuster · « **Reply #31 on:** April 25, 2008, 11:30:10 AM »

The THS does not punish accuracy, however it does reward a more powerful release more than it punishes inaccuracy.

The Sport shot does not punish a powerful release, however it does reward superior accuracy more than it punishes a weaker release.

In a perfect world you have both, accuracy and a clean, loose, powerful release.

If you sacrifice a clean, loose, powerful release to gain accuracy then the THS could reduce your carry and score. But it is not that you are too accurate but that your release and or lane play may not let you take full advantage of the shot.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #32 on:** April 25, 2008, 11:48:38 AM »

From the comments of Pinbuster above.....well said.

I just was watching top hat oriented bowlers vs straighties OR guys using too weak equipment yesterday.

The top hat guys in general have revs, like 350 and 16 mph speed, axis rotation a good flat spot, or are no thumbers.

Two of em put on a clinic for us yesterday of how to open up a lane.
One a no thumber, and one a old fashion grip 350 rev bowler with forward pitch in the fingers and reverse in the thumb and lots of right lateral which his hand calls for. Both have nice level flat spots, good speed at the pins, moderate loft, good axis rotation and a fairly open hand release!

Both could throw about from 17 to 13 and strike or they could throw from 14 to 7 and strike and everywhere INBETWEEN! It was sweet to watch. Pulls got stuck in the crown and from 13 to wider struck. Pushes came back from the friction.

Those with less revs, less axis rotation, less revs, shorter deliveries, lower flare balls etc were forced to go straight up the boards, with about 2 boards of area at their breakpoint to score.

The area creators above shot high 6s that could have been easy low 7s.

My belief. Once you can get to that spot inside with your feet to where you have enough hold to strike you are now an area creator and have mastered a fun skill to bowl on your local top hat, and not to have to be forced to be a complainor who does not enjoy it as much as the above!!

I believe this skill is one to have but also is not one that ensures any success at Nationals or other more accuracy defined venues. At these sites often the harsh backend supplied by the condition can give the less dynamic release all the hitting power he/she needs!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I'm starting to get into about 1/2 the area of the above which is making it more fun.....and is coming from an attention to release sequenceing(ie thumb/finger), flat spot enhancemnt, attempts at more arm swing freedom and speed. 1 step drills emphasizing a good flat spot and arm freedom have helped in the past and seem to help a little now!

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Edited on 4/25/2008 11:49 AM

Edited on 4/25/2008 11:51 AM

Skizriz · « **Reply #33 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:06:40 PM »

quote:
So in other words, there is no such thing as "too accurate." There IS such a thing as "too low speed/too low revs." Those are two totally different things. Increasing rev rate generally makes it harder to be accurate, yes, but just because you have power does not necessarily mean you're not accurate. Therefore, trying to say that you are too accurate for a house shot just makes no sense. Saying you're not overpowering the lanes and the pins, however, does.

(And even then, the highest averages in all of my leagues this year came from tweeners. They are the accurate, medium rev rate, medium speed bowlers who stay in the pocket and can adjust well to generate carry. Sure the spray-and-pray guys might throw higher games sometimes, but they also make up for it with their lower games when the lanes transition, etc.)

At least somebody agrees with my "retarded" view.

Hitting your exact mark every throw, and leaving pin after pin, isn't being too accurate.
It's not being able to adjust to what you need to do to get strikes.

How does your superior accuracy prevent you from moving deep and swinging the ball cross lane like the pray and spray crankers do

Better accuracy leads to better scores period. It doesn't matter what oil pattern you are playing on.

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"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car"

Roto Grip Cell

Roto Grip Saturn

(now retired)
Roto Grip Spare Tire

Skizriz · « **Reply #34 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:09:14 PM »

quote:
You really are a retard aren't you?! You and a few others just don't get it.
THS conditions DO NOT play the same as Sport and PBA conditions. Playing Sport and PBA conditions force you to be more accurate. Lets look at WRW, he is very accurate but when the lane conditions open up a but for the crankers. He usually gets beat because of carry. How many single pin, good pocket hits has WRW left? TONS!!! He is damn accurate

Answer me this.
What hurts WRW in the situation, his dead eye accuracy......or his inability to open up the lane by cranking it up on a deep line

??

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"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car"

Roto Grip Cell

Roto Grip Saturn

(now retired)
Roto Grip Spare Tire

nd300 · « **Reply #35 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:30:24 PM »

Skizriz,
Again,you're sticking your foot in your mouth.I'd take WRW and his dead eye accuracy any day against you.WHen you can beat him,the you can comment on him supposedly not being able to open up the lanes.He's won 40 plus titles,and close to the same number of second place finishes.
As to leaving pins on accurate shots,there is more to just an accurate shot.You must have good speed,a clean release,and be playing the lanes correctly with the right equipment.It might be that mumzie needs a re-assessment of her equipment in the area of surface adjustment,pin placement,and ball/core choice.
Of course,you and your 176 average wouldn't know much about that,would you??Much less entry and exit angle.
Read her profile.When YOU get to be Rookie of the Year on the tour that you compete in,then come back and tell us about accuracy.Until then,try practicing.
--------------------
Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........

Skizriz · « **Reply #36 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:36:33 PM »

quote:
THS conditions require rev's and speed. Sit back and watch one of these high rev fast speed bowlers one of these days. One shot will go over 15 board at the arrows out to the 5 and hit the pocket for a strike. Next shot will be 20 out to 10 and hit the pocket for a strike. Another will be 14 out to 2 and come back for a strike. 20 to 6 come back hit light and throw pins everywhere for a strike.

Then you have the less rev's, less speed but accurate bowler(not accurate like WRW). Accurate for us NON pro's is 1-2 boards. Less rev's is going to play around 10 out to 6 or 5. Will use mumzie since she posted this. Mumzie throws and hits her mark at arrows but doesn't swing out to 5 board, instead hits 7 board. Theres more oil so it skids a little, hits the pocket but leaves a 10 pin. Another non strike but good throw, she hits the 9 board at arrows goes out to 5 board goes high flush but leaves the 4 pin.

Another very fine example.

Is it Mumzie being too accurate that is causing her to leave pins when the others with speed and revs (and inaccuracy) are striking

Or is it her lack of speed and revs needed on a THS that are hurting her.

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"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car"

Roto Grip Cell

Roto Grip Saturn

(now retired)
Roto Grip Spare Tire

Skizriz · « **Reply #37 on:** April 25, 2008, 12:52:40 PM »

quote:
I'd take WRW and his dead eye accuracy any day against you.WHen you can beat him,the you can comment on him supposedly not being able to open up the lanes.

Here's the quote from MVAS800 not me.

quote:
Lets look at WRW, he is very accurate but when the lane conditions open up a but for the crankers. He usually gets beat because of carry. How many single pin, good pocket hits has WRW left? TONS!!! He is damn accurate.

quote:
You must have good speed,a clean release,and be playing the lanes correctly with the right equipment.It might be that mumzie needs a re-assessment of her equipment in the area of surface adjustment,pin placement,and ball/core choice.

Bingo !!!! The problem may not be that she is too accurate, but needs to make adjustments elsewhere.

I Have no doubt that either Mumzie or WRW would clean my clock in a heartbeat.
If you thought my suggestion about playing WRW for money was anything but pure sarcasm, then ..well...

I just keep reading contradictions about being too accurate, then in the same post you list the real reason for the problem, and the solution.

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"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car"

Roto Grip Cell

Roto Grip Saturn

(now retired)
Roto Grip Spare Tire

mumzie · « **Reply #38 on:** April 25, 2008, 02:02:34 PM »

I'm going to "weigh" in again on this one...

Although the original topic of the thread has wandered a bit, reading everyone's responses has caused me to think of the "accuracy" thing a little differently.

So... I guess my challenges arise from the following:
My ability to hit my intended target is probably overshadowing subtle "feel" adjustments to compensate for lack of speed, agility, and quality of release.

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www.Shirts4Bowling.com
We Know What Bowlers Want

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #39 on:** April 25, 2008, 04:05:14 PM »

Bill Taylor politically incorrectly would disagree if say one had narrow shoulders and wide hips. Claiming this makes it more difficult to throw past the leg/hip area.

If one ever saw Dave Davis throw one would think there is an advantage to narrow hips, wider shoulders and long arms and legs! WOW!

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #40 on:** April 26, 2008, 01:52:34 PM »

Well hitting your mark over and over is what you want to do, but if you are hitting your mark over and over and not scoring, perhaps you need to change your mark?

I can the 20 board all day...but I'm not going to strike...
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Ahhh Disco Biscuits!

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #41 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:04:08 PM »

One can hit their mark all day and it CAN be the right mark but others with a more dynamic ball roll may carry better. EVEN with less accuracy!

Richie Sposato who proved to ME and I believe others that he is both Powerful and accurate says it correctly I believe.

"There should be a reward for a good(read....powerful) release"

I am in agreement with this!

I am spending much of my time trying to make my release more dynamic.....note I differentiate this task from one where one tries to become a cranker.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I have listed the items above that I believe increase striking power in comparison to another bowler who hits the pocket just as often.....but less powerfully!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Skizriz · « **Reply #42 on:** April 26, 2008, 02:26:48 PM »

quote:
One can hit their mark all day and it CAN be the right mark but others with a more dynamic ball roll may carry better. EVEN with less accuracy!

Agree 100% I was just trying to make the point that it's not the accuracy that hurts you, but the lack of power(or other things) when needed.
****Notice I said when needed *****

Being accutate is the foundation that all other aspects of the game is built upon.That's why the advice to new bowlers is always practice untill you have the muscle memory to repeat the motion over and over, like a machine. Not learn how to crank the snot out of a ball, and you will consistantly score high.

Now back to the original subject.

What effect do you think it would have if somebody was smaller on top, and had the extra weight down low in the hip and rear area. Lower center of gravity and better balance

?
Compared to somebody like me who isn't big all over, but now has a party ball where my six pack abs used to be. Would my center of gravity will be much higher leading to balance issues.

Or do you think it doesn't make much of a difference

--------------------
"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather....Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car"

Roto Grip Cell

Roto Grip Saturn

(now retired)
Roto Grip Spare Tire

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #43 on:** April 27, 2008, 08:06:37 AM »

Mine went up 7 pins when I lost weight! Oh...but then I missed my spares like I always do.....

But seriously folks!

Besides a dynamic release.....

Those who can go inside on a crowned top hat have now created a tug area where they can be more inaccurate and still hit the pocket.

Recently I went to bowl in a top hat league and one of the top bowlers decided the condition was too....jumpy. He decided to use a three piece core plastic ball. Playing up the 6 board he could get nothing! No carry no area nothing.

Two mediocre 170 180 games. Finally he switched to the Track Money(old beater) and had the world. Standing 32 or so targeting 17 at the arrows I think he shot 257 or 268. His ball could hit 12 to 5 at the breakpoint and strike(good level dynamic release).

He put that ball away and I have not seen it the rest of the year in league....Thank God!

WHY NOT?

REgards,

Luckylefty
Point being...starting ones ball somewhere near the center of a steep crown can allow one to be more inaccurate and take advantage of the top hat!
I think every bowler who bowls in a crown league should aim to take advantage of this beautiful situation provided to lead to high scoring! As above Money ball was put into action ....a thing of beauty to watch(glad he only did for one game as I was matched up against him)!

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Author Topic: I found this quote on another thread... (Read 5987 times)

mumzie

I found this quote on another thread...

Pinbuster

Re: I found this quote on another thread...

LuckyLefty

Re: I found this quote on another thread...

Skizriz

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Skizriz

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nd300

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Skizriz

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Skizriz

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mumzie

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LuckyLefty

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Spider Ball Bowler

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LuckyLefty

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Skizriz

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LuckyLefty

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