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Author Topic: When do we reach TOO MUCH?  (Read 10086 times)

JOE FALCO

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When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« on: January 05, 2013, 10:36:56 PM »
Undrilled bowling balls:
Storm Lucid: $159.95
DV8 Nightmare: $139.95
Brunswick Aura: $154.95
Motive Primal Scream: $148.99
Hammer Taboo: $164.95
Roto Grip Defiant: $154.95
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

 

3835

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2013, 08:48:12 PM »
Joe,

What you are forgetting is no ball company (except Lane 1 I believe) sells directly to pro shops. The companies only sell to distrobutors who in turn can sell small lots to pro shops, maybe one ball at a time. The ball company has to make a profit and has hundreds of employees, large machines which require maintenance and not to mention, the supplies used to make a bowling ball can be very hazardous and is tough to work with, so a premium is placed on safety and the work these folks do.

Once the bowling ball company makes a profit by selling to a distributor, the distributor has to warehouse literally thousands of bowling balls, gloves, bags, and every accessory known to a bowler so when a pro shop calls up a needs a box of easy slide or a case of Auras, the distributor has the item in stock. Do you know how big a warehouse someoen needs to store everything in a pro shop catalog? If you don't, drive to Ft Wayne Indiana and check out Classic Products or to Akron, Ohio and see Ace Mitchell. Not only would the electric/gas bill be through the roof for the thousands of sq feet the place has, oh yeah, they need staffers to sell the product, ship the product, and make decisions for the firm. By the time you have sales reps, folks packing orders in the warehouse, and other personnel, there is a significant cost to a distrobutor who by the way has to purchase X amount of product to get a new ball from the company. Yep, Ace Mitchell has to purchase X units of one ball and guess what...if the ball bombs, guess who is stuck with the ball? Not the manufacturer, its the distributor!

So, then the distributor has to sell the ball to the pro shop. The pro shop then has to make a profit to cover expenses such as rent, a new drill press, a new Haus machine, a revivor, and the carrying costs of having boxes of easy slide in stock so you can buy 1 bag at a time. How about 1 towel...yep, there is a carrying cost there as well for the pro shop. Yet, the cost of the ball is no more than what a high performance ball cost 15 years ago. How about the Forest Green Quantum or the Helix...didn't they sell for $300 drilled? I don't see anything much above $220 drilled in my area. Considering the amount of overhead and costs the manufacturer, distributor, and pro shop have, getting a ball for $220 leaves LITTLE profit margin for families to live off of...and its not just one set of families, its the families of the workers at the manufacturer, distributor, and pro shop. How much profit do you really think each level in the chain makes in profit? It is not very much....and that is one of the reasons Brunswick moved to Mexico, but that is another story for another day.

Joe, in closing, I have found that you do NOT need the newest ball especially when bowling on a THS or even a local tourney that uses a THS pattern. My newest ball right now...a Karma Urethane....newest high performance ball....Nighthawk Menace....If I want a deal, I go to ebay and look for closeouts that are a decade old. I just found a new Nighthawk Menace a few weeks ago for $65 shipped...you can find deals if you want to and the balls perform just fine.

3835

Russell

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2013, 09:04:49 PM »
I believe it is safe to say this discussion is over....

JustRico

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2013, 09:05:52 PM »
Do you honestly think anyone wants to hear this kind of logical dribble? NO...we want bowling balls for the same price as 10 years ago....we could care less about anything or anyone else
Co-author of BowlTec's END GAMES ~ A Bowler's COMPLETE Guide to Bowling; Head Games ~ the MENTAL approach to bowling (and sports) & (r)eVolve
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JOE FALCO

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2013, 10:23:05 PM »
3835 Thank you .. I appreciate your time .. it doesn't talk to the profit per ball realized by the manufacturer .. but Thank you again for your time.THE DISCUSSION IS OVER are you also the one I have to ask permission to leave the room?
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!

The Gaz

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2013, 12:01:55 AM »
Not that I'm an expert or anything yet when it comes to bowling equipment but $200 for a reasonably high end ball doesnt seem too much to me when compared with most other sports, or at least the ones I've been involved in heavily.

I paid $240 for my first ball (admittedly probably over the top for starting out + aus prices), and I was more than happy too considering I think it should last me a long time.

$110 on shoes, will also last a long time, only bowl once a week.

and a $35 carry bag.

$23 a week league fee

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Compared to when I got back into playing basketball at 21 -

$160 for new basketball shoes

$50 on my own ball to practice

$50 team rego x2 for two teams I played on

uniforms for both teams - $30 el cheapo team  $80 high quality uniforms for other team

After 10 months of heavy use I needed new shoes and bought a very good pair for $210.

$15 court fees.

Since then I've played on 4 different teams at various times and the big thing is needing to put in for uniforms. In bowling no uniforms required.

Over 6 years I've gone through 5 pairs of shoes. Due to the heavy wear and tear on them Pros only get 50 hours of use out a pair of shoes.

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How about golf?

Even a lower end set of clubs is going to set you back at least $600-$800 if you want anything decent. Bag? at least $80-$100

Balls are pretty cheap, but you go through heaps of them.

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Badminton

I started playing Badminton at a young age when I didn't have to pay for the crappy old racquets my mum had. As a present I got a pretty good one that was worth about $90. Too bad I've got a bit of a temper problem and badminton racquets aren't the toughest  things out. That one lasted me 6 months before I broke it. From then on I had to buy my own and in the 10 years I've been playing badminton prices have gone up a heap. The last top of line racquet I bought was $180. And I always buy two. I used to play tournements and you should always have an identical spare.

I get them restrung cheap by a guy I know. $20. Before every tournement I would play I would get them restrung...

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Once again, I'm a beginner, I've only been bowlnig 6 months. I probably don't know what I'm talking about. But in my experience, even starting out I have not spent bowling what I have spent playing other sports. And I don't see myself spending a whole lot more any time soon.

3835

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2013, 06:09:02 AM »
Joe,

Yes I did, or did you miss the entire first paragraph? Here it is again.

Joe,

What you are forgetting is no ball company (except Lane 1 I believe) sells directly to pro shops. The companies only sell to distrobutors who in turn can sell small lots to pro shops, maybe one ball at a time. The ball company has to make a profit and has hundreds of employees, large machines which require maintenance and not to mention, the supplies used to make a bowling ball can be very hazardous and is tough to work with, so a premium is placed on safety and the work these folks do.

Seeing how you wanted to beat this drum, let's expand a manufacturers cost. They need a plant if they are a true manufacturer (Visionary, Brunswick, Ebonite, old LaneMasters, Storm). Want to take any guess how much money it costs in either a lease for the land and building or a mortgage payment on a huge structure that you need several separate pieces to? You need an area where you pour the equipment, you need an area where the equipment is cured after pouring, you need an area to cut down the ball after curing, you need an area to finish the ball and label the ball, and finally, unless you ship everything out the day you make it, you need a place to store finished product. You cannot put any of the two areas you need above in the same area because of manufacutring issues. So...that is several areas and one large facility.

Further, how many individuals do you need to work in these areas? Have you seen the videos or Storm's and Ebonite's manufacturing facilities on Youtube? Yes, some is automated, but almost every step requires some human interaction. Don't forget, these folks have families too, so minimum wage in an industry working with hazardous chemicals...not a chance. One of the reason Brunswick moved to Mexico is the folks working the lines were paid from what I understand $30 an hour including benefits. Times that by what, a hundred individuals at least and how much hourly expense do you have in wages alone. Don't forget your mortgage, electric, gas, and other expenses you must cover as well. Hmm...oh yeah, INSURANCE! Remember when Columbia had a fire in 96 or 97....they probably needed INSURANCE and the last time I checked that is not free either. 

Hmmm...how do you know about the new releases and the newest information from a company? Do you ever visit Storm's website? How about Ebonite? WOW, they need someone to work on the websites and update them with information to keep the site up to date. Dang, need to pay that person as well.

How about marketing? Sure, the amount of commercials that bowling ball companies put out is extremely low, but still, I have seen commercials from Storm and others. Dang, need to pay someone to market new products as well. There is yet ANOTHER expense for a manufacturer.

Oh yeah, working in this business requires extreme precision. You need very good maintenance on your stuff. Who is going to do that because it needs done or every ball that is poured will be an X out or a second and who is going to buy that? Not many unless it is deeply discounted.

Now...the copanies who do not manufacturer their own bowling balls (Lane 1, MoRich, etc) pays for a manufacturer to make the product (duh). Manufacturers still charge a pretty penny for these folks but they also get to cut out some of the other expenses on their end as they have less warehouse space, no need for a huge place as they do not manufacturer, no line workers, less insurance, etc. 

So Joe, if you want to cut down a $210 ball and say that each level takes an equal piece of the pie from a manaufacturer, that means the manufacturer may sell a ball for $70 to a distributor, the distributor sells a ball to a pro shop for $140, and finally the shop sells the ball to you (drilled, etc) for $210. So, at each step of the way, everyone has fixed costs. The manufacturer with the amount of overhead above may charge a distributor $70...may...it depends on the distributor buy in. The more they buy, the cheaper the ball to the distributor. But in the end, the manufacturer has to pay everything above and the entire pie STARTS around $70 a ball. Take every expense above and start at $70....they are not making that much! That is a reason why Brunswick moved to Mexico....its why others tried to outsource some production to outside of the country as well.

Joe, in closing, you do not need anyone's approval to leave or do whatever you want. But the continued whining over ball prices that are more than reasonable in today's bowling environment is part of the reason this sport is dying. Look at the contraction the sport has seen. Yes, we have seen new ball companies, but look at who we lost. Columbia! Columbia 300 shut down. Unreal and unthought of 15 years ago.

Bottom line....new ball prices aren't going down. They will only go up. Don't want to pay the price? Go to ebay and find something older that will work just fine.

3835

« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 06:11:05 AM by 3835 »

michelle

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2013, 12:16:01 PM »
I believe it is safe to say this discussion is over....

sadly, that won't be the case...I am pretty sure we were seeing the same discussions started by some of the same people when I was active here seven or eight years ago as well as before then...probably even over at eteamz more than a decade ago.

 


JOE FALCO

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Re: When do we reach TOO MUCH?
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2013, 12:50:12 PM »
Thanks evryone .. no use beating a dead horse .. I've decided to lock the subject .. Thanks again
RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!