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Author Topic: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices  (Read 13148 times)

Harmsey

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Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« on: January 14, 2010, 06:17:51 AM »
After many hours of thought and watching friends go out of business or finding new jobs due to lack of bowling equipment sales, has left me with one question to the bowling manufacturers. "Why won't you establish a minimum sale price for all current products on the market?The golf industry is much larger and has more companies in their sport than bowling and yet you can go to any local on course pro shop,local retailer, and pick any of the web sellers and the price of current products are within $5.00 of each retailer. Bowling has in place all that needs to be done to police this situation but the manufactures still think that once they sell a product to the distributors the price that needs to be charged is out of there hands, when its the manufactures job to protect their product and keep the industry stable. With the ridiculously low prices some e-tailers are selling products for forces many pro shop operators into being just a ball driller or to leave the business altogether. Bowling will continue to decline if the ship is not righted soon. This is just one of many reasons bowling is suffering and manufactures need to help this industry if they want bowling to start growing again.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
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www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
Steve Harms

 

Lillen

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #61 on: January 15, 2010, 10:10:25 AM »
Sorry if this is a hijack, but I live in Sweden (Europe) and even though the ball prices are much higher here than in the US, drilling - slug - grips is always included in the price of the ball..

The pro shop were I get my stuff charges $90 if you want a ball drilled that you got somewhere else, that price is also with slug and grips included..

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jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #62 on: January 15, 2010, 10:17:49 AM »
quote:
Ok I''m going to once again prove you wrong and than I''m done dealing with you cause I''''ve wasted more than enough time with your retarded butt...Buddies has the Virtual Energy on there website for 137.95 you can have that drilled for $38 with finger grips and than you can go to the home page and get the coupon and take 20 off of the drilling which makes a grand total of..

Virtual Energy $155.95

Now your more than welcome to check it our for yourself or play internet tuff guy with someone else cause you are an idiot and I have now brought my self down to your level which I will not do anymore guess we saw who the LIAR was...

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:05 AM

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:06 AM

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:07 AM

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:07 AM




Says you.... Call the 800 number,  they quoted a price of $187.99

But even if your $137 price is right... As I said, it's possible for them to have run a sale....Their dist. are hurting.... They may have passed a deal onto them to move product...  That's normal....

But to say that one can buy every high end ball for that low of a price, is simply not true...

The Pure swing is listed on their site at $142.95 undrilled....

Over the phone I was quoted a price of $144.99 for the ball, undrilled...

The Jig Corner is on their site for $143.99, undrilled...

Over the phone I was quoted a price of $144.99 for the ball, undrilled...

And quoted a drilling price of $50,  not $18, nor $38...

Now you sir are the one playing tough guy... "come to Delaware"

Give me a break....

Your a keyboard pounder.... everyday keyboard pounders lose their jobs to some little girl in China, who will do the same job for about 1/3 your pay....and she has big boobs and smells better......

You attack a pro shop for making maybe $50 on a ball that cost him $135...

Yet if you have a job and make $39 an hour,  you scream if your place hires someone for $20 an hour to do the same job....

Your a hypocrite.... as long as you get paid, that's all you care about...

But a pro shop making a profit,  we're all crooks...

Now their web site clearly has the balls posted.....

move along...
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jls

Spider Man

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2010, 10:24:10 AM »
quote:

A word to Trip 4.  DON''T come on here and say how intelligent you are, how you''ll put somebody in their place with words, I do this and that in the community, blah, blah, blah.  That''s just a different type of bullying. Quite frankly, anybody that has to come on here and tell us what a pillar of the community he is sounds like he''s trying to convince himself of how great he is.  Most of us don''t care.  You''re just another anonymous internet honk with an agenda.




+1
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Edited on 1/15/2010 11:24 AM

Spider Man

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2010, 10:27:19 AM »
quote:
Ok I''m going to once again prove you wrong and than I''m done dealing with you cause I''''ve wasted more than enough time with your retarded butt...Buddies has the Virtual Energy on there website for 137.95 you can have that drilled for $38 with finger grips and than you can go to the home page and get the coupon and take 20 off of the drilling which makes a grand total of..

Virtual Energy $155.95

Now your more than welcome to check it our for yourself or play internet tuff guy with someone else cause you are an idiot and I have now brought my self down to your level which I will not do anymore guess we saw who the LIAR was...

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:05 AM

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:06 AM

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:07 AM

Edited on 1/15/2010 11:07 AM




how many edits do you need to get your story straight, lolz?
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icefiction

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #65 on: January 15, 2010, 10:29:24 AM »
How about this, I ran a shop in south florida for the past five months or so and I had customers come to me and ask me to charge them more if it meant i would take the time to actualy talk to them about what ball is best for them. then i showed them my prices and they were amazed that i was just as cheap as the internet and explained how i always take the time to find a  pap and discuss ball selection all for that same price as the internet.
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Doug Sterner

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #66 on: January 15, 2010, 10:31:22 AM »
Harmsey I will give you the answer.....the manufacturers don't care. Once they sell the ball to the distributor the manufacturer has already made their money in the deal. They don't care what the distributor charges the pro shop or what the pro shop charges the customer because they don't make a dime after the distributor pays their bill.

The manufacturers care about making their money...they don't care how much the pro shop makes on the final sale. This is why so many of the manufacturers sell direct to internet "pro shops" and have given us the huge cutthroat industry we now face.
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Doug Sterner
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scizzo

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #67 on: January 15, 2010, 11:25:43 AM »
So we are comparing golf sales to bowling sales on the analogy that online golf item prices are set close to the same as proshop golf prices.  But you think that Bowling online prices are a lot cheaper than proshop prices.  First this is a poor analogy because you do not take your golf clubs to the proshop after you buy them to have the proshop drill holes in it.  And if you have any custom work or proshop work done locally , you better believe they will charge you for it.  Next, when I order my stuff at Bowling.com, they tell me that I have to take it and have it drilled at a proshop.  They, and online seller, send me to a proshop for services.  They send business to you.  You claim that the online stores are selling the balls for what you buy them for.  Well then why are you selling them for 50-60 bucks more then what you paid for them?  And then say that you are throwing the drilling in for free?  You make just as much, if not more when someone buys online and brings it in to your proshop.  Sorry, but the truth of it is there was a minimum price, you would see proshops prices rise just as much as online prices.


Thanks
Scizzo

jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #68 on: January 15, 2010, 01:12:35 PM »
quote:
So we are comparing golf sales to bowling sales on the analogy that online golf item prices are set close to the same as proshop golf prices.  But you think that Bowling online prices are a lot cheaper than proshop prices.  First this is a poor analogy because you do not take your golf clubs to the proshop after you buy them to have the proshop drill holes in it.  And if you have any custom work or proshop work done locally , you better believe they will charge you for it.  Next, when I order my stuff at Bowling.com, they tell me that I have to take it and have it drilled at a proshop.  They, and online seller, send me to a proshop for services.  They send business to you.  You claim that the online stores are selling the balls for what you buy them for.  Well then why are you selling them for 50-60 bucks more then what you paid for them?  And then say that you are throwing the drilling in for free?  You make just as much, if not more when someone buys online and brings it in to your proshop.  Sorry, but the truth of it is there was a minimum price, you would see proshops prices rise just as much as online prices.


Thanks
Scizzo



Let me ask you and all keyboard pounders this...

If you run a retail store and an item cost you $135... Would you sell it for $135??? And stay in business... Did you ever hear of overhead, payroll, taxes, etc etc....

Your comment about why are your selling balls for $50 more then you paid for them is about as stupid as anything I have ever heard on here...

If you work, which I doubt,  do you think your employer stays in business by not making a profit... Yet pays your wages.... Are you brain dead....

Since STUPIDITY rules on this site... Let me explain something to you all...

An item that cost a store $100... If they mark it up 50%.... They sell it for $150.00.....  That''s  33% gross profit.....After all expenses, like taxes, wages, rent etc...they are left with what is called a net profit.... Which is more like 4-8%....  At 8% net profit after all expenses... that comes to $12.00 that the store made on that item.....

Now you said, we "claim"   Bull Crap.... It is a fact.... Most Online dealers are owned by major dist.     They sell to themselves >> the online dealer, at the same price they sell to pro shops.....

Dist, A owns a online site... He buys the balls from Ebonite at $90... Sells them to online shops for $129, and sells them to pro shops at $129... The difference is, for you simple minded simpletons.... They own the online shops, therefore when the sell it to themselves for $129....They still paid $90...

But when they sell it to a pro shop for $129... We paid $129....

It amazes me the Stupidly of you keyboard pounders... That you come on and say such stupid things like, "why do you sell balls for more then you pay for them"...................

Do you think this is a game....Do any of you idiots have any retail sense...

Business needs to make a profit to stay in business...

That''s how they pay your wages....By making a profit....

You keyboard pounders are not only stupid by making those comments, your just plain IGNORANT...............

No wonder each and everyday another keyboard pounder loses his job to some girl in China.....

How in the world anyone with any commonsense could say,  "why are you selling balls for more then you pay for them"  

Idiots...........

So lets do this,  why don''t all you KNOW IT ALL KEYBOARD pounding idiots, mortgage that shack you call home, and go open a pro shop..  And then you can sell balls for what you pay for them.....

YOUR ALL IDIOTS..... YOU GIVE NEW MEANING TO THE WORDS STUPID AND IGNORANT...

And your all first class Hypocrites.............

now

we are clear!!!!!!!!!!!!

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jls

Edited on 1/15/2010 2:16 PM

r534me

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #69 on: January 15, 2010, 01:53:52 PM »
Keep in mind that the business also has to make more from the worker's productivity otherwise there is no reason to keep that worker.

Harmsey

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #70 on: January 15, 2010, 01:56:44 PM »
scizzo
quote:
So we are comparing golf sales to bowling sales on the analogy that online golf item prices are set close to the same as proshop golf prices. But you think that Bowling online prices are a lot cheaper than proshop prices. First this is a poor analogy because you do not take your golf clubs to the proshop after you buy them to have the proshop drill holes in it.
well I can use golf cause what if you need the lie adjusted cause you are hitting a hard hook because to lie angle is to up right for your swing, or maybe the swing wieght is to light for you and you cannot feel where the club head is in the down swing. Custom fit clubs is just as technical as experienced ball drilling. I know cause I do both. Here is the bottom line and some of you are getting it, some are not, If the markup of the equipment is consistent through the bowling industry proshops would not have to get crazy about other services to be able to make a living, the manufacturer has to come to their senses and start to understand that if there is no balance in this equipment industry with pricing there it will near imposible to stablize this industry.
I was lmao about the guy in this post who said why should proshops make a profit, and to that I ask  "why should you go to work and expect to get a paycheck! Duh.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com

Edited on 1/16/2010 1:29 AM
Steve Harms

JOE FALCO

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #71 on: January 15, 2010, 01:57:19 PM »
quote:
Exactly how do you people think e-bay retailers make money? They deal direct with the manufacturer and then mark up the items to make a living. What the hell is the matter with you that you don't think a pro shop operator has the right to do the same thing. EVERY RETAILER DOES IT.  


I am NOT trying to argue .. trying to clarify for myself!

I would imagine you are saying that the E-Bay retailers deal directly with the manufacturer thereby eliminating the distributor .. that's the reason the Pro shop price (for the ball alone) is higher because there an extra level of PROFIT TAKING.

Am I correct in interpretation?

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J O E - F A L C O

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jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #72 on: January 15, 2010, 02:43:29 PM »
quote:
quote:
Exactly how do you people think e-bay retailers make money? They deal direct with the manufacturer and then mark up the items to make a living. What the hell is the matter with you that you don't think a pro shop operator has the right to do the same thing. EVERY RETAILER DOES IT.  


I am NOT trying to argue .. trying to clarify for myself!

I would imagine you are saying that the E-Bay retailers deal directly with the manufacturer thereby eliminating the distributor .. that's the reason the Pro shop price (for the ball alone) is higher because there an extra level of PROFIT TAKING.

Am I correct in interpretation?

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J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones



Joe, several dist. use some online dealers to help them move msde... It allows them to buy in bigger quantites from the ball companies...

Thus getting a better price...   500 balls may be at $90, 1000 balls may be at $75....  Now if that dist. can only move 500 balls thru his pro shop accounts, he needs to sell the other 500...and that's what they do,  to online dealers...

This way the dist. is making money both ways... First he is getting the 1000 ball price, and second he is selling to both pro shops and online dealers...


So they sell low to the online dealers just to increase their volume...And one such online dealer, actually is in bed with a dist... A certain west coast dist was in big time trouble a few years ago... The online dealer sorta bailed him out... So now that online dealer actually gets the dist. low price on msde...

For example,  dist cost on a ball may be $90... That online dealer gets them for that... or a little above that cost... and then sells it to you the online shoppers at $142.....  Now who's the crook making too much profit...

And pro shops have to defend ourselves for making a profit....

But what's really funny is when some child comes on and says, "why are you selling balls for a profit"  Or  "I wouldn't deal with him"  Bite me you child...  You remind me of the little kid who would cry and take his bat and ball and run home to mommy...

You see Joe, some people on here don't like it when a pro shop defends themselves... So they do the geek childish thing...

There such a joke......

Now Joe, I know you buy a lot online,  but you never come on and bash pro shops...  There is nothing wrong with saving money....

But you get what you pay for.... You buy a ball online, you still have to get it drilled...

But when people come on and lie and post that they can buy ALL high end balls online for under $150 drilled... That is just plain not true....

And fishbowl knows it....

And he had to edit one thread about 5 times,  to get his story straight...




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jls

txbowler

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #73 on: January 15, 2010, 03:18:25 PM »
But you get what you pay for.... You buy a ball online, you still have to get it drilled...


And in my opinion, this is where the pro shop of today needs to adjust their pricing model.

You offer experienced knowledgeable SERVICE.  You should be paid for that.

The shops in this area now charge $3-$5 for polishing a ball, $1 for opening the thumb hole a little.  These services used to be free.  The pricing model had to be changed and pro shops are changing.  Pro shops used to make more money from the mark ups of ball sales but no longer do.  They are making it up in service areas that used to be free.  It can be done.


scizzo

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #74 on: January 15, 2010, 04:06:15 PM »
Wow, I can see this is over some of your heads.  Let me break this down so you will understand.  If a proshop tells you that they cannot buy the ball for what an online dealer is selling it for, then straight up, the proshop is not searching very hard to get a good price.  Nobody's fault but the proshops.  Online stores have the same access to the same deals as proshop owners.  I have been to Bowling expos and see the deals that are put out by manufacturers.  Sometimes a brick and mortar proshop gets better deals than online stores.  I know that for a fact.  Anything contrary to that is a straight up lie.  So you cant sit there and tell me that online stores get the items cheaper than you can, but I know its a load of BS.  If you call around you could get the same deal.  Simple as that.  So instead of wasting all your energy pointing a finger at online store, get off you backside and find your customers better prices.  

NOW WE ARE CLEAR

Next topic, In my last post I was asking a question which some people misunderstood.  My question was: "Well then why are you selling them for 50-60 bucks more then what you paid for them? And then say that you are throwing the drilling in for free?"
Some of you are laughing at this statement thinking Im an idiot. Some of you think that this meant that Proshops should sell the ball for what they paid for it.  NO!  This is just asking what are you really charging for when you mark it up 50-60 bucks.  The answer, which I thought you would know, is that you mark it up for the drilling and service you provide.  So when you could not comprehend that simple statement I laughed at how stupid and simple minded you were.  Here is an example of what Im talking about.
Proshop purchases ball for 100---------> Proshop sells ball for 175 ( with drilling ).
Proshop gross profits are 75 / Online Gross profits 0

Online purchase ball for 100 ---------> Online sells ball for 125.
Customer takes ball to proshop for drilling-----> Proshop does drilling 75.
Proshop gross profits are 75, online gross profits are 25.

Proshop makes the same amount whether the item was purchased through them or not.  The only real thing a proshop could be upset about is the price of bags or shoes.  Something that does not require extra services.  With this I can see how you are upset because the price an online store sells it at is usually better.  They dont have to mark it up as much because they sell a lot more.  Simple business here.  If you sell more items, you can sell each for less.  So the idea of setting a minimum selling price would only benefit proshops by causing online retailers to have to mark up the price.  Do you think the consumer wants this?  Do you want to pay more for your stuff too?  I sure don't.  Maybe the manufacturers think that if the consumer can afford more products then they will enjoy the game more.  Maybe cheaper prices will get the consumer more interested in the sport because it is an affordable sport.  As some people have already stated.  People are going to go where they see the best prices.  Im sure some of you will find something about this funny because your an idiot and dont understand what has been written. And for you that are laughing, invest in a helmet and fork corks!

My question back to the original post is:  Why not mark you items prices the same as online stores when you can still charge whatever you want for services?

NOW WE SHOULD BE CLEAR!


Scizzo

JOE FALCO

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #75 on: January 15, 2010, 04:50:35 PM »
Thanks guys .. I understand ..
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J O E - F A L C O

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