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Author Topic: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices  (Read 13144 times)

Harmsey

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Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« on: January 14, 2010, 06:17:51 AM »
After many hours of thought and watching friends go out of business or finding new jobs due to lack of bowling equipment sales, has left me with one question to the bowling manufacturers. "Why won't you establish a minimum sale price for all current products on the market?The golf industry is much larger and has more companies in their sport than bowling and yet you can go to any local on course pro shop,local retailer, and pick any of the web sellers and the price of current products are within $5.00 of each retailer. Bowling has in place all that needs to be done to police this situation but the manufactures still think that once they sell a product to the distributors the price that needs to be charged is out of there hands, when its the manufactures job to protect their product and keep the industry stable. With the ridiculously low prices some e-tailers are selling products for forces many pro shop operators into being just a ball driller or to leave the business altogether. Bowling will continue to decline if the ship is not righted soon. This is just one of many reasons bowling is suffering and manufactures need to help this industry if they want bowling to start growing again.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
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Steve Harms

 

Jay

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #76 on: January 15, 2010, 05:12:03 PM »
The distributor(s) here must have more expensive prices or something because while you guys can sell your VGs and Jigsaws for $200, you know what I can get for that?  Rattler/Snake line, 505 series, Noize line maybe.  Not even a Reign, Nomad, Hy-Road.
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Justin
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #77 on: January 15, 2010, 05:18:38 PM »
Besides closeouts the only other deal proshops get are when distributors offer buy four get one free or have a package that includes all the balls from a certain manufacture or line that are released close together. Then that lowers there over all cost per ball. This isn't done as much as it use to.

Even on closeouts distributors make them buy certain weights to get the deal, so then you get stuck with something in 12 or 16lbs that will be harder to sell.

The advantage is, if you have your own drill press. Because you can buy bowling balls from ebay or where ever at cost or below what the proshop does and don't have to pay for drilling. I've seen people who have done this and drill for whom ever at a cheaper price then the local shop.

I have my own press but only drill for me and my brother.(and our wives) Everyone else gets recommended to the local shop. This isn't always cost efficient, but we were able to get a jig and bits for $250 off ebay in 2001 so it was easy to have everything pay for itself ten times over.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #78 on: January 15, 2010, 05:21:49 PM »
quote:
The distributor(s) here must have more expensive prices or something because while you guys can sell your VGs and Jigsaws for $200, you know what I can get for that?  Rattler/Snake line, 505 series, Noize line maybe.  Not even a Reign, Nomad, Hy-Road.
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Justin


That may be because of cost of living in your area. In that case buying a premium ball online and paying to have it drilled at your local shop may be cheaper.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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Fishbowl815

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #79 on: January 15, 2010, 05:46:35 PM »
quote:
The distributor(s) here must have more expensive prices or something because while you guys can sell your VGs and Jigsaws for $200, you know what I can get for that?  Rattler/Snake line, 505 series, Noize line maybe.  Not even a Reign, Nomad, Hy-Road.
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Justin


Yeah same here, to get a jigsaw it's like 225 plus than they charge you for finger grips...
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Jay

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #80 on: January 15, 2010, 06:04:05 PM »
quote:
quote:
The distributor(s) here must have more expensive prices or something because while you guys can sell your VGs and Jigsaws for $200, you know what I can get for that?  Rattler/Snake line, 505 series, Noize line maybe.  Not even a Reign, Nomad, Hy-Road.
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Justin


That may be because of cost of living in your area. In that case buying a premium ball online and paying to have it drilled at your local shop may be cheaper.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "


Yeah it is, and it probably is the cost of living and their expenses.  You would pay about $250-$270+ out the door for high end balls around here, you buy it online and get it drilled where I go it would be roughly $200-$220.  I bought a mid priced ball online once(my only online purchase to date) and ended up only saving a little over $15, so the high end balls and upper mid-priced stuff(the ones that are over $110 online) are the stuff I would save much more on.  I have to think about whether it would be worth it though because if something happens to the ball it's nice to have it taken care of with little to no issues.  I'm only a couple-balls-a-year person, and maybe buying online could really only be justified if one was a hardcore ball-buyer.
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Justin
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #81 on: January 15, 2010, 07:39:01 PM »
I think one of the main purposes behind manufactures enforcing a minimum selling price is to ensure product integrity. Companies like Titleist golf, Levis jeans, Oakley,  Sony , Apple computer, ect…… all set a min price for their product so the consumer will have confidence in knowing that they are getting what they expect and pay for, not a copy, fake or clone. If a certain model of Titleist golf clubs sell for $1000 and you see them online or elsewhere for $500 you can probably bet they are “fake”   As far as I know, there isn’t anyone manufacturing “clone” bowling balls. But I would bet that as soon as someone did start doing that, the mfrs would tighten things up a bit
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

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DP3

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #82 on: January 15, 2010, 10:35:52 PM »
When I was operating a pro shop I was considered to be one of the "best" in the area at what I did and the quality of my work.  I gave the same detail and attention to the regional players, to the guys that drilled 50 balls a year, to the recreational player looking for their first ball.  After being considered "one of the best" in 2 1/2 years I made a little over $41k.  Not per year.  That's over the course of 30 months which comes out to around $1400 a month, about $350 a week.  

I challenge anyone to try to pour their heart and soul into a job where you're considered to be amongst "the best" yet make the same as someone mopping floors in McDonalds.  This job ain't easy and people gotta eat.  I'm glad I got out when I did or I'd be sleeping in my car somewhere trying to find a way to stay warm because I wanted to "keep bowlers happy".  Which that quote in itself is impossible.

You think shops are getting away with highway robbery?  Go ahead, find the financing to open one up and see if you can feed your family and pay your bills for just a month or two.  

p.s.  JLS rules.
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jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #83 on: January 16, 2010, 07:59:45 AM »
quote:
When I was operating a pro shop I was considered to be one of the "best" in the area at what I did and the quality of my work.  I gave the same detail and attention to the regional players, to the guys that drilled 50 balls a year, to the recreational player looking for their first ball.  After being considered "one of the best" in 2 1/2 years I made a little over $41k.  Not per year.  That's over the course of 30 months which comes out to around $1400 a month, about $350 a week.  

I challenge anyone to try to pour their heart and soul into a job where you're considered to be amongst "the best" yet make the same as someone mopping floors in McDonalds.  This job ain't easy and people gotta eat.  I'm glad I got out when I did or I'd be sleeping in my car somewhere trying to find a way to stay warm because I wanted to "keep bowlers happy".  Which that quote in itself is impossible.

You think shops are getting away with highway robbery?  Go ahead, find the financing to open one up and see if you can feed your family and pay your bills for just a month or two.  

p.s.  JLS rules.





Amen to that   AAA+++  >>> your post

You made $350.00 a week.....

Why you crook......

The nerve, the gall, why you have more crust then a pie factory...


Very nice post sir.....  It's too bad it will fall on deaf ears....

This site has way too many Keyboard pounders...

And they just don't give a dam about a pro shop making money...

As anyone can clearly see by reading the STUPID replies some of them have made on this thread...

"why do you sell your balls for more then you paid for them"

Unbelievable...

Anyway sir,  thanks for posting and the kind words....

btw Fishbowl... Jig Corner... $199....

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jls
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scotts33

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #84 on: January 16, 2010, 08:07:35 AM »
Just going to add to this the ONLY major brand golf seller that keeps a MAP program in place and enforces it is PING.  Everybody else including TM, Titleist, etal.....allow sales to fall under MSRP. You'll see everything under the sun on eBay and on-line as well as brick and mortar shops at below MSRP but not PING as they will pull the sellers right to sell if they see such a thing.


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Scott

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jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #85 on: January 16, 2010, 09:06:01 AM »
quote:
Just going to add to this the ONLY major brand golf seller that keeps a MAP program in place and enforces it is PING.  Everybody else including TM, Titleist, etal.....allow sales to fall under MSRP. You'll see everything under the sun on eBay and on-line as well as brick and mortar shops at below MSRP but not PING as they will pull the sellers right to sell if they see such a thing.


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Scott




AAA+++,   I saw an article where Ping cancelled a pro shop on  a military base because they were giving troops a 10% discount...

Ping doesn't fool around...
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jls
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #86 on: January 16, 2010, 09:11:20 AM »
quote:
Just going to add to this the ONLY major brand golf seller that keeps a MAP program in place and enforces it is PING.  Everybody else including TM, Titleist, etal.....allow sales to fall under MSRP. You'll see everything under the sun on eBay and on-line as well as brick and mortar shops at below MSRP but not PING as they will pull the sellers right to sell if they see such a thing.


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Scott



That is not correct. Titleist for example has one in place but there is a timeline also involved. From the release of certain products it it not to be sold for less than xxxx dollars (not necessarily MSRP) After a certain timeframe, that dollar figure can be lowered to xxxx and lowered again based on that timeline. Whether or not that is enforced is debatable.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

http://www.phxbowling.com/acba
http://www.viseinserts.com/
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jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #87 on: January 16, 2010, 09:22:38 AM »
quote:
quote:
Just going to add to this the ONLY major brand golf seller that keeps a MAP program in place and enforces it is PING.  Everybody else including TM, Titleist, etal.....allow sales to fall under MSRP. You'll see everything under the sun on eBay and on-line as well as brick and mortar shops at below MSRP but not PING as they will pull the sellers right to sell if they see such a thing.


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Scott



That is not correct. Titleist for example has one in place but there is a timeline also involved. From the release of certain products it it not to be sold for less than xxxx dollars (not necessarily MSRP) After a certain timeframe, that dollar figure can be lowered to xxxx and lowered again based on that timeline. Whether or not that is enforced is debatable.
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"USBC is concerned that technology has overtaken player skill in determining success in the sport of bowling"

http://www.phxbowling.com/acba
http://www.viseinserts.com/


My friends who own golf pro shops tell me that you can't advertise for a price lower then MAP.... However you can sell below that price...

R9 driver... $299... advertised price.... But he is allowed to discount it as long as he doesn't advertise it... He sells them for 10% off...

As for Titleist... I'm told them do not allow a golf shop to even wholesale their balls....I can get all the other brands at cost from my golf shop contacts... but they won't give me a penney off a dz Titleist...

Good point on whether or not it is enforced....
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jls
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Doug Sterner

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #88 on: January 16, 2010, 03:35:08 PM »
Those of you who are not in the pro shop business are forgetting 1 important factor here. In fact I have not seen this issue addressed EVER when this topic comes up....

You all say that the pro shop owner should be just as happy to drill a ball for the customer who buys the ball off the net.

SO the pro shop takes the time to take the measurements, lays the ball out the way the customer wants it, puts the holes in the ball and the customer says it fits fine and it's what he wanted.

What happens when the ball does not work for the bowler?

If the bowler buys the ball in my shop he gets it fixed (surface tweaked or polished as needed) until the ball works right for him. If the reason the ball doesn't work is my fault I give them a new ball with a new layout.

If the customer brings the ball in and has me drill it, he does not get this performance guarantee. So he comes back, says the ball doesn't work right, I say "sorry, you did not buy the ball here so I cannot do anything for you in terms of the ball being defective or whatever." Now the customer complains that you refuse to help him and leaves the pro shop screaming to everyone that is within earshot that the pro shop guy is a douchebag and won't stand behind the product.

Now the pro shop is the bad guy and there's a ton of negative publicity being spewn everywhere. It doesn't matter that you tell him you'd replace the ball for free IF HE HAD BOUGHT IT FROM YOU....in his eyes you screwed him because he DIDN'T buy the ball from you. He thinks you did it on purpose.

Now what? The pro shop now has an upset customer and what to do? Give him his money back? I don't think so...the pro shop guy was paid to layout and drill a bowling ball that the customer bought thinking it would work for him....you did what was asked of you but you are still a horses butt. Now the shop's reputation is in question.

Personally I have the customer sign the drill sheet stating that they bought the ball elsewhere, want me to drill it and they understand that once it leaves my hands , it's all theirs. But it doesn't matter...they will still badmouth you to the end of time if the ball doesn't do exactly what they want.

I sell the ball and the service I feel BOUND to make it right...if they don't allow me to buy the ball for them (and increase my sales with my distributor so I may be able to get better price in the future possibly) am I still bound to make it right? or is it the customers problem at that point????

Sorry for the long post but it needs to be addressed....




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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
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Doug Sterner
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #89 on: January 16, 2010, 03:55:43 PM »
Most proshops don't go that far on their equipment in terms of drilling them something else. Surface tweaks and ect, yes.

Customers don't know what they need but what they want. Once it doesn't do what they want they can be bitter and spew negative remarks regardless of what you do.

So even if they buy it online and aren't happy you still made a good profit and if they want to be hateful for any reason they still will be.

There is no win in customer service with some people.(ever)
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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JOE FALCO

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #90 on: January 16, 2010, 05:40:59 PM »
Dough .. I for one don''t think you are making a good argument. My statement DOES NOT pertain to where the ball is bought .. as the customer has the option to buy from the Pro Shop or ON=LINE you have the option to NOT DRILL the ball. Once you accept that job you become responsible for the results.

How you can prove (without specific instructions from the customer) that you drilled the ball to provide the bowler the BEST RESULTS is beyond me.

I must admit that I NEVER had the occasion to question a ball I had drilled locally and purchased ON-LINE. If the delivered drilled ball didn''t work for me ..I just did the best I could with it. WAIT .. there was one time the driller put a finger hole in a pin of an AZO ball .. never went back to him again (although I have since heard that was an acceptable thing).

ON EDIT: You were paid for your service you have to fulfill that service.
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J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

Edited on 1/16/2010 6:43 PM
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RIP Thongprincess/Sawbones!
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