Author Topic: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices (Read 13869 times)

Harmsey · « **on:** January 14, 2010, 06:17:51 AM »

After many hours of thought and watching friends go out of business or finding new jobs due to lack of bowling equipment sales, has left me with one question to the bowling manufacturers. "Why won't you establish a minimum sale price for all current products on the market?The golf industry is much larger and has more companies in their sport than bowling and yet you can go to any local on course pro shop,local retailer, and pick any of the web sellers and the price of current products are within $5.00 of each retailer. Bowling has in place all that needs to be done to police this situation but the manufactures still think that once they sell a product to the distributors the price that needs to be charged is out of there hands, when its the manufactures job to protect their product and keep the industry stable. With the ridiculously low prices some e-tailers are selling products for forces many pro shop operators into being just a ball driller or to leave the business altogether. Bowling will continue to decline if the ship is not righted soon. This is just one of many reasons bowling is suffering and manufactures need to help this industry if they want bowling to start growing again.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com

scotts33 · « **Reply #91 on:** January 16, 2010, 06:39:38 PM »

quote:
Whether or not that is enforced is debatable.

It is not enforced that's the key word. I know many Titleist dealers who sell below MSRP under the time line that Titleist puts forth.

PING is the only major brand that does enforce.
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Scott

Doug Sterner · « **Reply #92 on:** January 16, 2010, 07:49:10 PM »

Joe...in my scenario the customer did get what he wanted. He chose the ball, he chose the specs and then brings it to me to put the holes in it. He tells me he wants the ball to go long and flip....it's a Storm Virtual Gravity with a 1" pin with 5 oz top wt. He throws the ball at 10 MPH and has a rev rate of 50. Any pro shop guy will tell the guy that the ball is not the ball for him. He insists that the ball is fine and has the guy drill it.

If I go with your line of thinking and say, "Sir, this ball is not going to work for you no matter what I do and I do not want to be responsible for you being unhappy with the ball. So I am not going to drill the ball for you." He then stomps out of the pro shop screaming all the way that I refused him service and I would not drill his ball because he didn't buy it from me (totally false but that's what he will say).

OR.....

I express my doubt that the ball will work for him but decide to drill it for him anyway because he insists it will be OK. So I drill it, he throws the ball and it hooks at his feet, rolls out and hits like a pillow. I tweak the cover and still nothing. So now he stomps out of the shop spewing forth such verbage like I don't know what I am doing, I'm incompetent and I'll never touch anything for him again and he's saying nobody else should either because all I did was take his money and ruin his ball.

It's a lose-lose situation HOWEVER if the customer had come into a PRO SHOP to buy the ball he would have gotten our knowledge, our expertise and our opinions. Nobody would sell this guy the ball he chose...

Until the customers learn to value and trust the expertise, knowledge and experience of the pro shop guys this scenario will repeat itself over and over and over.

Save $10 by buying elsewhere and HOPE you get what you need or spend the $10 and be GUARANTEED that the ball is what you need?

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Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
http://dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
Lane 1 Buzzsaw...The Official Power Tool Of Bowling
For Real Time Interactive Bowling Conversation:
BowlingChat.net

ctwings10 · « **Reply #93 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:09:05 PM »

Here's the problem with any retail service - You can't fix stupid. You can fully disclose information, recommend a solution and still have someone not follow the information.

This type of person, if they come into the shop with a VG to drill or come in really wanting a VG....even if it's a horrendous selection for them they will buy it. It takes a huge amount of confidence to just tell someone you won't sell to them.

I work in the wireless industry, we do a great job recommending people phones. People will still buy what they want then complain when they made the poor decision. You can't fix stupid.

Was slightly off-topic, but wanted to share in the pain of customers.

BW · « **Reply #94 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:16:16 PM »

Joe Falco,

The problem with that argument is that often, the customer doesn't know what he wants or can't convey his thoughts properly. I can't tell you how many times someone has brought me a tornado and come back later complaining that it doesn't hook like his friend's virtual gravity. The tonado was his first ball, he wanted conventional, and he never mentioned his friend's ball before the drilling.

Later, he comes in wondering why we didn't get a PAP before we drilled the tornado. He read online all good pro shops get a PAP to drill balls. Mind you, that would be a PAP derived from a house ball.

You're statement sounds reasonable for you, but the vast majority of bowlers lack the knowledge needed to properly choose a ball or a drilling. They see a lane diagram with a hook path on it and want that look down the lane but fail to realize they cant hook the ball that way because of their style.

After that, the customer doesn't blame his choice of ball or his lack of skill. It's the ball driller's fault. Whne you suggest he takes a lesson, he, of course, expetcts rthe lesson to FREEEEEEEE!

Rileybowler · « **Reply #95 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:45:43 PM »

I have always bought from pro shop don't search online sites and am very satisfied with service and price and will continue with this
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Carl
Bless the LORD o my soul and all that is within me bless his holy name

agroves · « **Reply #96 on:** January 16, 2010, 08:53:47 PM »

How ANYBODY can make as a full time proshop operator is beyond me. It is my second job and I make enough pay for gas for the month. I don't think there is any way a guy/gal could raise a family only running a proshop.

I don't complain about internet balls. Heck I love em. In the words of Randy Moss straight cash homey!...lol

But, like Doug stated, you occasionally get the guy/gal that buys the completely wrong ball for their game. You have to make a decision to drill and pray or talk them into something else.

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Proshop Operator
North Bowl Bowling Center
www.northbowlspokane.com
ctwings10--"Here's the problem with any retail service - You can't fix stupid."

DrillLord · « **Reply #97 on:** January 16, 2010, 10:06:31 PM »

First of all, I love this topic and it never gets old.....

Since I have become a pro shop operator since 2003, I have been on both sides of the coin.....

Let me state the problem......15 years ago the internet brought about a world of sales that nobody could have expected. Prior to that, many pro shops were used to making $100 per ball because bowlers could not get the ball anywhere else. Once people realized that they could buy balls for $130 online, that they were paying $230 for at their pro shop, they began to question the worthiness of the pro shop. This problem is not isolated to bowling. I was in a local golf store today and saw dozens of 2008 Taylor Made burners on sale for $199 when I can buy one today at rockbottomgolf.com for $129. I have not bought a single major electronic item from a local retailer (i.e. Best Buy etc..) in 10 years because I can get them for 10-20% less online and local retailers still want me to pay for any additional warranty.

As an independent pro shop we must offer both quality and convenience to remain afloat. If somebody gets a ball drilled online and the thumb is too small, do they have to take the time to ship it back just to get a thumb opened up?

? I stand behind everything that I sell 100% if it was bought from my shop. I'm sorry, but I have drilled some pro-pin balls that rolled like crap that people saved $30 on by buying them online and I can not warranty them. I agree with you fully on this Doug.

Convenience......How many of you would do business with a shop that had no on-hand stock and told you it would take them 3-5 days to get your ball?? As brick and mortar pro shops we offer the convenience of having equipment on-hand, which should come at a higher price. I had a customer call me Thursday at 6:00 that wanted a 14lb Mutant Cell for his tournament on Saturday. There is no way this order could have been filled online. Luckily, I have $20,000 of stock on-hand and can accommodate this. This is a premium service that bowlers should have to pay for. I still have over 100 balls in stock that I can currently buy for less from my distributor, but I had to buy them initially to supply my customers.

I currently have a $7000 ovalmatic mill with $1000 worth of end-mills, a $1000 kaufmann scale, a $3500 Haus-resurfacer, $1000 carbide drill bits, $1000 fitting/layout equipment, $2000 grip/slug inventory, $1000 sanding, plugging, cleaning supplies and $20,000 shoes, balls, bags.....This is what is required to be a real pro shop.

How many of you would be willing to lay out $35,000 of your own money for the chance to make $400-$500 a week?

Finally, shops need to adjust their prices. I agree that all balls should be sold at cost with clear drilling prices attached. I was just in a shop that had the following posted:

standard drilling-$40
standard drilling w/grips-$50
standard drilling w/grips and thumb slug-$65
deluxe drilling, P.A.P. measurement w/advanced layout, w/grips & slug-$90

How many of you would mind this price chart?

Please feel free to respond to this as both a PM or on this post. I was not being sarcastic when I said I loved this toic..

r534me · « **Reply #98 on:** January 17, 2010, 01:49:17 AM »

I like your post. However, I would say that retailers really reaped the benefits of the Internet after the dot com bust when all of the overbuilt infrastructure became cheap to rent, and almost every home user was able to subscribe to broadband(take your pick on technologies). Before that it was super slow and webpages were quite static compared to how dynamic they are now.

Edited on 1/17/2010 3:50 AM

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #99 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:43:25 AM »

I wouldn't won't to start a proshop at this time. I also wouldn't spend that much in new equipment to start my business.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "

Atochabsh · « **Reply #100 on:** January 17, 2010, 05:38:01 AM »

One problem I see is that the beginner bowler doesn't have the knowledge to buy a ball for themselves on line. Therefore they buy a ball that is unsuitable for them and the conditions they see on a normal basis. They might have saved $20 or so but are not aware that they could have done better, performance wise, had they gone through the pro shop. Many of these types of bowlers are not the "multi ball a year" bowlers. So the industry has sold them one piece of equipment and the pro shop doesn't get a second chance. Even when a pro shop tries to educate them they've already invested in the ball. You drill the online ball, create a customer. But that customer doesn't necessarily return to buy another ball.....from anyone online or not. The pro shop may benefit from word of mouth from that customer, if they were lucky enough to match up even marginally with the internet ball. But most don't realize a good ball fit when they get it, therefore the only thing the beginner goes on is ball performance.

AdrianS · « **Reply #101 on:** January 17, 2010, 05:38:17 AM »

Not all shop owners want to make heaps of money either, they just enjoy what that they do, make $400 a yr and be happy after rhey've done their 'real' job that day. No one from China is replacing that guy!!!!!!

ps
And im happy with that place too believe me
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!

Mike Austin · « **Reply #102 on:** January 17, 2010, 06:52:17 AM »

quote:
This has got to be one of the most useless topics I have ever seen on here. All this talk about everybody knowing what a ball costs on the internet, pro shops marking it up, then charging for drilling and grips. That somehow it will be better if the pro shop just has an "inclusive" price for a ball that will disguise the fact that he will be charging a ton more for drilling to be able to say that he matches internet pricing. What?! $220 out the door is $220 out the door no matter how you slice it. What you seem to be missing Trip 4 is the fact that as an educated consumer, it is your responsibility to get the best price that you can. What really kills me is the fact that some of you seem to think that profits and markups are bad things! Really? Ever eat lobster? That item is marked up all five steps from boat to your plate! That's called BUSINESS!

What I don't understand is the complete ignoring of personal and business relations with your pro shop owner. Can't remember which one of you said it but it was saying that one customer paying $50 for drilling and another paying $35 because he's a friend of the driller should be REGULATED is ridiculous. I just bought a new C System 2.5. A guy in my league has just opened a shop. He's a real nice guy, the shop is in a house where there isn't much traffic, and I decide to help him out. We talk for two days about grips, drillings, etc. I ask him should I get the ball on the net and bring it in or have you get the ball for me? This is a ball that he had in his shop with the pin and weight I needed. He sells it for $209.00 out the door. My price? $190.00 complete. It's called "relationships". He made money and I think I got a great ball for a good price and I didn't have to put my credit card out over the net, didn't have to have a ball shipped to my house and sit out in the cold (Michigan), etc.

A word to Trip 4. DON'T come on here and say how intelligent you are, how you'll put somebody in their place with words, I do this and that in the community, blah, blah, blah. That's just a different type of bullying. Quite frankly, anybody that has to come on here and tell us what a pillar of the community he is sounds like he's trying to convince himself of how great he is. Most of us don't care. You're just another anonymous internet honk with an agenda.

Somebody who gets it! +++++100

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Check out my blog:

www.strikes4days.blogspot.com

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #103 on:** January 17, 2010, 08:31:07 AM »

quote:
DON'T come on here and say how intelligent you are, how you'll put somebody in their place with words, I do this and that in the community, blah, blah, blah. That's just a different type of bullying. Quite frankly, anybody that has to come on here and tell us what a pillar of the community he is sounds like he's trying to convince himself of how great he is. Most of us don't care. You're just another anonymous internet honk with an agenda.

Mike .. do you feel he was describing YOU here?
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J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

Coolerman · « **Reply #104 on:** January 17, 2010, 02:27:22 PM »

I have had Jeff McCorvey drill equipment for me two times when I was in
TN and Alabama.The best thing about Jeff is the labor rates he charges are clearly marked.
Here is a link to the rates.http://www.alabamabowling.com/mccorvey/labor.htm

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #105 on:** January 17, 2010, 03:04:59 PM »

Letsbowl .. I don't see how what I said offended you .. no matter how I read it I can't see what you are getting out of it .. how ever I WILL apologize to you .. I WILL NOT withdraw my comment ..I think what you said "A word to Trip4" was definitely clear in your statement and is a wide open comment that could describe a LOT OF PEOPLE .. was I at fault for asking my question? AGAIN I APOLOGIZE TO YOU FOR WHATEVER YOU INTERPRET MY COMMENT TO MEAN!
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J O E - F A L C O

RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones

Author Topic: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices (Read 13869 times)

Harmsey

Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

scotts33

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

Doug Sterner

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

ctwings10

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

BW

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

Rileybowler

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

agroves

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

DrillLord

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

r534me

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

kidlost2000

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

Atochabsh

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

AdrianS

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

Mike Austin

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

JOE FALCO

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

Coolerman

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices

JOE FALCO

Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices