BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: J_w73 on August 13, 2014, 04:28:10 PM
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I'm currently at 3/16 reverse and feel like I have a hard time keeping the ball on my hand throughout the swing and at release. I just had a new snug 3/16 reverse, a 1/16 reverse, and a 1/16 forward switch grip thumb drilled so I can experiment. I hung up on all of them until I opened the top of the thumb a bit and added bevel. The 3/16 reverse required a minimal amount and the 1/16 forward required a little more. Nothing extreme but I did need more so that I could be confident I would get out of the ball. Now that I can clear the thumb it feels like the ball comes off too fast at the bottom. I do like that the ball stays on my hand better throughout the swing.
This is the most forward I have ever been. Until I drilled my new equipment I was usually at 3/8 reverse
Should I go more forward and just open the top and bevel the thumb until I can clear?
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The need of bevel tells me that your span is too long and your thumb is out of position. On the release, your thumb should come straight out, you shouldn't drag it across the front side of the hole. Matter of fact, the less bevel you can use, the better. Bevel just allows your thumb socket at the top of the hole to get out of position easier and can cause you to grip more, which should be the very thing you're eliminating by going to less reverse pitch. Whenever you remove reverse or go to more forward, you need to slightly reduce the span anyway.
Ideally, your thumb socket should be directly above the thumbhole so that on release, the thumb comes straight out. If you can hold your ball in one hand and put just your thumb in straight and pull it straight back out with no problem, you should be able to do the same thing when you throw it.
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Thanks for the reply. I have recently shortened my span for the very reason you are stating. I was at a 5 1/16 inch span for the longest and just went down to 4 3/4. I had always needed at least 3/8 reverse to get out of a ball. The bevel that I have now is not excessive, but it is more than likely because I was dragging on the front edge of the thumb. My thumb has never rolled right into the hole. I would always have to crook it around the edge to get into the hole. With the 4 3/4 it feels like it goes right in, at least more than it ever has. I will re-evaluate my span to see if I need to go even shorter.
I do have one question. With my shortened span now I am getting some callusing on the top back of my thumb and on the left back side of my fingers. It looks like this is due to the fingers being in contact with the back side of the inserts where before they were stretched and never made that contact because they were being pulled away. What is your take on that? I'm at 3/8 reverse in both fingers
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Yeah, that makes sense. If you're dragging your thumb over the front edge, geometry causes the back of your thumb to rub on the back of the hole coming out. Reduced span again may fix the fingers, but you may have to go to something like 1/8 left and 5/8 right in your middle and ring fingers.
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You have any reverse in your fingers? Might add some.
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Yeah, that makes sense. If you're dragging your thumb over the front edge, geometry causes the back of your thumb to rub on the back of the hole coming out. Reduced span again may fix the fingers, but you may have to go to something like 1/8 left and 5/8 right in your middle and ring fingers.
I'm 0 and 3/4 right now in my fingers. Both at 3/8 reverse. What pitches were you making that 1/8 left and 5/8 right move from?
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Always go the ditection the wear...thus if you're at 0 & 3/4" (which is excessive at best) I would prolly go more like 1/4 & 3/8" and see what that does
You're making a lot of changes and this can create confusion...you need a valid starting and then make adjustments from there...
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Always go the ditection the wear...thus if you're at 0 & 3/4" (which is excessive at best) I would prolly go more like 1/4 & 3/8" and see what that does
You're making a lot of changes and this can create confusion...you need a valid starting and then make adjustments from there...
I sent you a pm. I have been working on my grip for a very long time. I've tried a lot of different pitches and where I am right now is what seems to work best but it still is off.
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I PMed you back (:
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Yeah, that makes sense. If you're dragging your thumb over the front edge, geometry causes the back of your thumb to rub on the back of the hole coming out. Reduced span again may fix the fingers, but you may have to go to something like 1/8 left and 5/8 right in your middle and ring fingers.
The callous is at the top of the thumb hole. I do not have much rubbing on the back or side down by the nail or knuckle.
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If the callous is on the flat of the thumb and is new since you changed to less reverse adding a slight amount of front bevel using the Mo Pinel bevel tips could solve everything.
For the always thinking Gizmo. A thought to consider.
As to always having the thumb fall in to the thumb hole when the ball is resting on the table....well there are other bowlers with very flexible hands who while bowling their hand seems to lengthen as the ball weight comes on to the fingers.
I am one of those flexible bowlers. Many very experienced ball drillers often suggest I go a little longer than I currently am which has the thumb hole about 1/8 of an inch longer than having my thumb fall in to the thumbhole while the ball is holes-up on the drilling table.
If I use the fall right in to the thumbhole method suggested in posts above...
If I only go that length the back of my thumb often feels while bowling that it is hitting the back of the thumbhole.
I do believe there are many bowlers with much less flexible hands than mine!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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author=J_w73
The callous is at the top of the thumb hole. I do not have much rubbing on the back or side down by the nail or knuckle.
The callous is on the back side of the thumb. Up near the top of the hole.
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Sounds like span now too short....but....
I have never gotten to that point but close.... When I have my thumb go straight in!
Regards,
Luckylefty
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The necessity of bevel for anything other than shaping, is merely facilitating the thumb being stretched or out of proper alignment - being forced in an 'unnatural' position - with the hand and wrist plain and simple...if bevel is needed to release the ball, the fit (span & gripping angles) is incorrect.
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JustRico,
So to accurately interpret your post.
All balls with any amount of bevel are wrong? Span and pitches must be adjusted? Why is having NO bevel important?
That seems like an extreme position.
Please clarify?
Thanks,
Luckylefty
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JustRico,
So to accurately interpret your post.
All balls with any amount of bevel are wrong? Span and pitches must be adjusted? Why is having NO bevel important?
That seems like an extreme position.
Please clarify?
Thanks,
Luckylefty
Lefty,
Could you have missed this phrase in JustRico's reply:
"The necessity of bevel for anything other than shaping, ..."
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Charlest,
You have a point. I guess that is an important question.
What is shaping type bevel versus release bevel.
I still remember the release tips told to me by Mo Pinel which I thought were awesome and very helpful....I am surprised he allowed any bevel as he is quite a proponent of proper fit also.
Note personally I use a modest amount of bevel.....but I don't try using extreme forward in relation to my comfortable span....to cause some of the thumb problems talked about by many on this site...
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS recently a well known amateur star and driller was talking to me extensively about bevel I am surprised these "other" smart guys think it is important...
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Personally, I would think of shaping as contouring the top of the thumb hole to insure it fits the shape of the top of your thumb, at or just below the 2nd the knuckle. Where the webbing between the thumb and the index finger meets the thumb varies a good deal from person to person, as does the length and shape of the bone, tendons and ligaments.
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Back when bowlers used "rocks", there was method to get the hand flat on the ball and comfort for long formats. It was called "teardropping" the holes (including the fingers). This was beveling the gripping side of the holes until the hand was flat on the ball. Under pitch on all holes was common then. You had to start with a longer span to accomplish this. Was really comfortable.
A forward pitch on thumb generally needs some bevel. To control the bevel use a 1 1/4 or 1 3/8 drill bit. The bevel on the other parts of the hole don't matter as far as grip is concerned, just helps with quicker thumb release.
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Rare,but always great insight by BullRed!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Darn, posted and didn't immediately start an argument. I must be slipping, so.....
Urethane thumb slugs are a must today. This "reactive" stuff does not work well with skin
Too many people are having thumb problems!!! Must be a lot of "ball drillers" out there.
I think there are many who just don't know how to hold and release a ball. A big percent of people just need lessons on holding and releasing the ball. Remember, most all of the thumb issues are caused by improper fit and release (it's not your thumbs fault). The fixation on using tape and inserts is just not having a proper fit or learning how to hold and release.
Bowled for many, many years with no thumb or release problems, so it is possible for most people to bowl without excessive use of tape, thumb inserts, etc.
Last shot, get rid of "Iron Maiden" type wrist supports. These are a curse to bowlers. If you persist in using one, at least get your ball fitted while wearing one