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Author Topic: Comodities versus Service  (Read 2239 times)

Pinbuster

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Comodities versus Service
« on: December 23, 2010, 03:26:33 AM »
When you buy a widely available commodity the vast majority will go towards the lowest price. It is the reason for Wal-Mart and other discount stores success and for a large part of the on-line sales boom.

Thus the success of internet bowling ball sales as well as other equipment, shoes, shirts, towels, etc.

The service industry is another matter. You often get what you pay for. If you want to get the most experienced, well trained, personnel you are going to have to pay for that service.

When you dry up ball sales from proshops you make it increasingly difficult to make a profit. Plus many are unwilling to see the value of expert service in fitting and drilling.

The net affect is that few true proshops exist.

It doesn't take much skill to drill holes in ball and glue in slugs/inserts.

It does take skill to know you client, recommend proper balls, do proper fitting, do proper drilling to the bowlers style, and correct grip issues.

By constantly seeking out the low cost supplier you make it impossible for the trained proshop operator to make a living. Many of these skilled people will then find better employment in other industries.

If you are willing to only use "hole pounders" then continue on this path.
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CanuckCoach

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2010, 12:11:41 PM »
The other issue facing pro shops is the prevalence of misinformation.  Many of those that choose to buy online are getting their 'expert' advice from websites like these.  the problem is that not everyone is an expert, and numbers are nice, but having 17 mph, 420 rpm and 45* axis tilt doesn't really tell you enough to make a fully informed ball recommendation, assuming those numbers are accurate to begin with!

So basically, some bowlers are replacing expert advice from someone that can actually see their game and ball reaction at their bowling center with anonymous posters that may or may not be well-informed, don't have a full understanding of the bowlers game and almost certainly have no idea about the specific lane conditions in question.

And the tradeoff is to save anywhere between $10 and $30.  Not a good deal, IMO.
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ToiletLogCore

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2010, 12:43:01 PM »
quote:
The other issue facing pro shops is the prevalence of misinformation.  Many of those that choose to buy online are getting their 'expert' advice from websites like these.  the problem is that not everyone is an expert, and numbers are nice, but having 17 mph, 420 rpm and 45* axis tilt doesn't really tell you enough to make a fully informed ball recommendation, assuming those numbers are accurate to begin with!

So basically, some bowlers are replacing expert advice from someone that can actually see their game and ball reaction at their bowling center with anonymous posters that may or may not be well-informed, don't have a full understanding of the bowlers game and almost certainly have no idea about the specific lane conditions in question.

And the tradeoff is to save anywhere between $10 and $30.  Not a good deal, IMO.


Wait, so you're saying that I won't get better advice from Key Pounders on an interenet site who've never seen bowl, over a trusted proshop guy in my area who will take me out on the lanes and actually watch me throw the ball????

I don't believe it for one second....
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You've just been handed a little TLC
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txbowler

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 12:54:02 PM »
If you are fortunate enough to live near a big metro area.  You probably have access to a number of reliable drillers.  But for those bowlers who do not, are they suppossed to drive for 2+ hours to get quality work done?
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The Stroke

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2010, 12:57:56 PM »
quote:
If you are fortunate enough to live near a big metro area.  You probably have access to a number of reliable drillers.  But for those bowlers who do not, are they suppossed to drive for 2+ hours to get quality work done?


IF you are serious about your game, why not?
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Toodles
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txbowler

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2010, 01:16:23 PM »
I agree 100% that a bowler looking to take his game to an elite level should consider driving that far.

However, bowlers can also learn and master and the latest in layout, drilling and ball reaction for a particular ball and through internet e-mails, and chats determine exactly how he wants to layout and drill a ball.  Purchase the ball online and take it to his local hole pounder and have the holes placed exactly where he tells the driller to put them.  It is exactly what the ball reps do on tour every day.  They map out how they want a ball drilled and a hole pounder punches holes exactly where someone else told them to.  So it can be done.

Not ideal.  No.  But for a bowler willing to put in the effort to learn the same thing a pro shop expert does except for having the drill press to actally punch the holes.  Why not?

Let the hate mail begin...
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The Stroke

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2010, 01:17:56 PM »
quote:
I agree 100% that a bowler looking to take his game to an elite level should consider driving that far.

However, bowlers can also learn and master and the latest in layout, drilling and ball reaction for a particular ball and through internet e-mails, and chats determine exactly how he wants to layout and drill a ball.  Purchase the ball online and take it to his local hole pounder and have the holes placed exactly where he tells the driller to put them.  It is exactly what the ball reps do on tour every day.  They map out how they want a ball drilled and a hole pounder punches holes exactly where someone else told them to.  So it can be done.

Not ideal.  No.  But for a bowler willing to put in the effort to learn the same thing a pro shop expert does except for having the drill press to actally punch the holes.  Why not?

Let the hate mail begin...


yeah and next thing you know you can just raise your hand to a webcam and an internet shop can drill off that.
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Toodles
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txbowler

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2010, 01:32:50 PM »
quote:
quote:
I agree 100% that a bowler looking to take his game to an elite level should consider driving that far.

However, bowlers can also learn and master and the latest in layout, drilling and ball reaction for a particular ball and through internet e-mails, and chats determine exactly how he wants to layout and drill a ball.  Purchase the ball online and take it to his local hole pounder and have the holes placed exactly where he tells the driller to put them.  It is exactly what the ball reps do on tour every day.  They map out how they want a ball drilled and a hole pounder punches holes exactly where someone else told them to.  So it can be done.

Not ideal.  No.  But for a bowler willing to put in the effort to learn the same thing a pro shop expert does except for having the drill press to actally punch the holes.  Why not?

Let the hate mail begin...


yeah and next thing you know you can just raise your hand to a webcam and an internet shop can drill off that.
--------------------
Toodles


Actually, it will be a drill spec sheet and a you tube video.
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Djarum

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2010, 01:41:29 PM »
quote:
The other issue facing pro shops is the prevalence of misinformation.  Many of those that choose to buy online are getting their 'expert' advice from websites like these.  the problem is that not everyone is an expert, and numbers are nice, but having 17 mph, 420 rpm and 45* axis tilt doesn't really tell you enough to make a fully informed ball recommendation, assuming those numbers are accurate to begin with!

So basically, some bowlers are replacing expert advice from someone that can actually see their game and ball reaction at their bowling center with anonymous posters that may or may not be well-informed, don't have a full understanding of the bowlers game and almost certainly have no idea about the specific lane conditions in question.

And the tradeoff is to save anywhere between $10 and $30.  Not a good deal, IMO.


I'm going to disagree here a bit. I know some knowledgable drillers, but when it comes to ball selection for my style of bowling, they are only guessing. Unless that shop/driller has sold that ball to someone who throws the ball similarly and drills the ball similarly, they really don't know if the ball is going to fit my needs/specifications.
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So, is there any tread left on the tires? Or at this point would it be like throwing a hot dog down a hallway? - Stewie Griffin
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rvmark

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2010, 01:58:30 PM »
You know I used to be one of the ones who was on the ball of the month club, today I buy primarily from my local proshop along with a few purchases from Tekneek through this site and these few balls have been ones that my local proshop does not carry or have easy access.

An analogy that I thought about last week after bowling while eating a steak was, how would your local steakhouse react if you brought in a couple of steaks that you purchased from Sam's Club?  

1.  Would they cook your steak or throw you out?  (Not sure what would happen)

2.  If they did cook your steak what would the charge be?  (I would be surprised if they would cook your steak)

3.  For all of those complaining would you try this?

I know that I am about to be flamed saying that this is different, because they have to follow health codes (but lets say your meat is in a USDA inspected cryovak sealed and dated package), but in all reality the theory is the same.  Bottom line I do not blame a Pro Shop that has excellent service for charging for said service, I have purchased 5 balls this fall for my wife, our son and myself from our local proshop and have paid anywhere from $115-$180 drilled with inserts for the balls that I have purchased Freeze, Midnight Vibe, 300C, 505T and Pure Physics.  For those of you that do not have a good Pro Shop in your area I am sorry that you do not, but on the other hand to be able to bowl I drive 45 miles one way twice a week, why because I enjoy bowling and yes I can afford it.  On the back side I do not smoke and can not drink anymore (due to a nerve pain medication that I am on)not that I drank more than 2-3 beers and that was when I was bowling so when you stack that up against someone that drinks 5-6 beers and smokes 1-2 packs a day I guess bowling is my habit that I can't break and helps me to afford to do what I like.  In the end it is all up to your individual choice as to what you want to do, but in all reality do you really think that posting a thread on BR.com with an average of 100-300 people on line at any time is going to have a huge impact on getting a groundswell of support to start an effective boycott then I really think that you need more to do with your idle time.  

To all Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!!!!

Mark
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jls

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Re: Comodities versus Service
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2010, 02:03:44 PM »
quote:
When you buy a widely available commodity the vast majority will go towards the lowest price. It is the reason for Wal-Mart and other discount stores success and for a large part of the on-line sales boom.

Thus the success of internet bowling ball sales as well as other equipment, shoes, shirts, towels, etc.

The service industry is another matter. You often get what you pay for. If you want to get the most experienced, well trained, personnel you are going to have to pay for that service.

When you dry up ball sales from proshops you make it increasingly difficult to make a profit. Plus many are unwilling to see the value of expert service in fitting and drilling.

The net affect is that few true proshops exist.

It doesn''t take much skill to drill holes in ball and glue in slugs/inserts.

It does take skill to know you client, recommend proper balls, do proper fitting, do proper drilling to the bowlers style, and correct grip issues.

By constantly seeking out the low cost supplier you make it impossible for the trained proshop operator to make a living. Many of these skilled people will then find better employment in other industries.

If you are willing to only use "hole pounders" then continue on this path.



Triple Amen to this post  AAA+++



"keyboard pounders"   "hole pounders"   <<< that''s some funny stuff there... where do you guys come up with stuff like that...


BTW, you left out self proclaimed "ball whores"   oops


just so you know



MERRY CHRISTMAS
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jls

Edited on 12/23/2010 4:05 PM
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