Post by: Necromancer on December 29, 2008, 02:14:29 PM
Even with Buddies misleading bowling videos, nothing is mislead with this POS ball:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knsyrmIkMz0
My Zone Spare hits harder than it LOL!
--------------------
Current Arsenal Gallery (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
H: Brunswick Fury, Columbia 300 EPX T1
M-H: Storm Shift Gravity, Hammer Black Widow
M: Storm X-Factor Vertigo
M-L: Storm Recharge
S: Viz-A-Ball White
Bench: Brunswick Target Spare Zone, Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
GEMS: Brunswick Quantum Helix, Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
2008-09 Year 215.000 2008-09 Tourney 177.360 Last Tourney 182.667
2006-07 League Champions, Southern Comfort Winner
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???, Courvoisier Winner
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
Post by: nyy276 on December 29, 2008, 10:23:10 PM
Post by: JessN16 on December 29, 2008, 10:28:26 PM
Good rolling ball, appeared to carry very well, and appeared to be very controllable -- what's not to like? The biggest screw-up a lot of bowlers are making right now is to think they have to have the absolute biggest-hooking ball they can find when in reality, they need something a lot tamer. If more guys would go to milder equipment, particularly on THS, their scores would go out the roof. I quit building my arsenal around super-angular stuff a couple of years ago in favor of smoother equipment and I'm kicking myself for not having done it five years earlier.
Jess
Edited on 12/29/2008 11:29 PM
Post by: bltbyj on December 29, 2008, 10:31:11 PM
Post by: Necromancer on December 29, 2008, 10:33:04 PM
quote:
Looks horrible.
Agreed!
quote:
There are a bunch of light hits in that video, which could be solved if the thrower of said shots would move right a pinch. What I got from that video was a ball that carried well and had a very smooth, controllable look -- and if anything, it made me want one, not the opposite. That's a look I would KILL to have some nights when I keep moving left, moving left, and going through the face.
Good rolling ball, appeared to carry very well, and appeared to be very controllable -- what's not to like? The biggest screw-up a lot of bowlers are making right now is to think they have to have the absolute biggest-hooking ball they can find when in reality, they need something a lot tamer. If more guys would go to milder equipment, particularly on THS, their scores would go out the roof. I quit building my arsenal around super-angular stuff a couple of years ago in favor of smoother equipment and I'm kicking myself for not having done it five years earlier.
Jess
Edited on 12/29/2008 11:29 PM
First of all, Buddies uses probably the easiest THS in the entire world. Comparing the bowler in the video to other balls that he has tested and this ball looks like garbage. I still prefer the robot method to see true difference but basically that ball is barely making it back to the pocket at a decent angle. Add some oil to the lane or even carrydown and that ball ain't coming back. Be prepared to leave lots of nasty spares. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to shoot the 5 pin all night for spares.
Post by: FastTracker33 on December 29, 2008, 10:37:01 PM
--------------------
-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Post by: nyy276 on December 29, 2008, 10:37:33 PM
That ball rolled down the lane and puked on the backend every single shot. I was waiting for it to make its move the entire video and it never did.
I doubt that ball would carry well had the tester moved right because the entry angle screams flat 10.
Post by: Necromancer on December 29, 2008, 10:41:23 PM
quote:
Alright, it may not be an absolute "hook in a box" ball, but for the price, you should see a little more performance than that.
That ball rolled down the lane and puked on the backend every single shot. I was waiting for it to make its move the entire video and it never did.
I doubt that ball would carry well had the tester moved right because the entry angle screams flat 10.
Winner! People need to understand that when you look at Buddies videos, you need to look for a ball that reacts strong on that lane because in your leagues where there is oil or in tournaments the reaction will be like 50% of that. Chris Forry tries out several balls so just compare this Motiv reaction to other popular companies. You can clearly see the difference in reaction on the last 20 feet. Forget about the first 40 feet. Real balls that are worth the price will make up their value in what they do at the end of the lane. That Motiv screams weak shot and frustration. Also, it was 1000 grit sanded and still hit like a girl LOL! I polish my balls to 4000 and like mirrors and hooks 10x as much.
Post by: JessN16 on December 29, 2008, 10:44:54 PM
quote:
First of all, Buddies uses probably the easiest THS in the entire world. Comparing the bowler in the video to other balls that he has tested and this ball looks like garbage. I still prefer the robot method to see true difference but basically that ball is barely making it back to the pocket at a decent angle. Add some oil to the lane or even carrydown and that ball ain't coming back. Be prepared to leave lots of nasty spares. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to shoot the 5 pin all night for spares.
Again -- bowler, move right. Problem solved.
It looked to me like the tester was trying to play a preset line to compare the ball against others (i.e., go over XX out to XX whether the ball was making it back or not).
As for "add some oil," a lot of people never face that condition. If we do, we can change balls to something stronger when the time comes. Carrydown? I can't beat carrydown unless I'm throwing particle pearl, no matter how good the ball looks on the fresh.
I'll give you the preference for the robot. But I fail to see how the ball in this video is junk when it would allow a lot of guys to stay in the track area and play an easier, more powerful angle later in the set. Or is it supposed to be easier to play fifth arrow?
I'd like to see the guy make another video playing more direct. The ball appears to have a urethane-like roll but cleaner up front, which is hard to achieve, and a bit more oomph on the backend than urethane.
Jess
Post by: Necromancer on December 29, 2008, 10:48:06 PM
quote:quote:
First of all, Buddies uses probably the easiest THS in the entire world. Comparing the bowler in the video to other balls that he has tested and this ball looks like garbage. I still prefer the robot method to see true difference but basically that ball is barely making it back to the pocket at a decent angle. Add some oil to the lane or even carrydown and that ball ain't coming back. Be prepared to leave lots of nasty spares. I wouldn't be surprised if you had to shoot the 5 pin all night for spares.
Again -- bowler, move right. Problem solved.
It looked to me like the tester was trying to play a preset line to compare the ball against others (i.e., go over XX out to XX whether the ball was making it back or not).
As for "add some oil," a lot of people never face that condition. If we do, we can change balls to something stronger when the time comes. Carrydown? I can't beat carrydown unless I'm throwing particle pearl, no matter how good the ball looks on the fresh.
I'll give you the preference for the robot. But I fail to see how the ball in this video is junk when it would allow a lot of guys to stay in the track area and play an easier, more powerful angle later in the set. Or is it supposed to be easier to play fifth arrow?
I'd like to see the guy make another video playing more direct. The ball appears to have a urethane-like roll but cleaner up front, which is hard to achieve, and a bit more oomph on the backend than urethane.
Jess
Yeah it reminded me of an AMF Angle LOL.
Post by: Juggernaut on December 29, 2008, 10:53:22 PM
An earlier read of the lane means an earlier transition, which generally translates into a smoother, more predictable reaction. That is exactly what I see here. A ball that reads earlier, spreads the transition over a larger area, and moves less on the last 10 feet of lane than a skid/snap ball would.
I haven't thrown it, so I wouldn't know for sure, but the reaction reminds me of a particle ball or a very strong reactive solid. The ball is covering a lot of boards, just not all on the backend. Many people will prefer a ball motion similar to the one in the video.
People who watch Buddies videos also need to take into consideration that the volume of oil may not be as much as a ball is truly intended for and may have the ball reading a bit early, expending more energy in the front part of the lane than the ball is really designed to do. This will smooth out the reaction and make a ball look weaker than it actually is.
Perhaps Chris himself will chime in, or at least any other member of Buddies staff who has actually thrown it or seen it in person. Before I pass judgement on it, I want more evidence. It may be a piece of crap, it may not be, but you can't tell from just one video of it in one bowlers hands on one lane condition.
--------------------
Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Post by: Necromancer on December 29, 2008, 10:56:07 PM
quote:
Do you people not ever pay attention to things? At the intro to the video, it tells you that it has an aggressive cover and wants to read the lane condition earlier.
An earlier read of the lane means an earlier transition, which generally translates into a smoother, more predictable reaction. That is exactly what I see here. A ball that reads earlier, spreads the transition over a larger area, and moves less on the last 10 feet of lane than a skid/snap ball would.
I haven't thrown it, so I wouldn't know for sure, but the reaction reminds me of a particle ball or a very strong reactive solid. The ball is covering a lot of boards, just not all on the backend. Many people will prefer a ball motion similar to the one in the video.
People who watch Buddies videos also need to take into consideration that the volume of oil may not be as much as a ball is truly intended for and may have the ball reading a bit early, expending more energy in the front part of the lane than the ball is really designed to do. This will smooth out the reaction and make a ball look weaker than it actually is.
Perhaps Chris himself will chime in, or at least any other member of Buddies staff who has actually thrown it or seen it in person. Before I pass judgement on it, I want more evidence. It may be a piece of crap, it may not be, but you can't tell from just one video of it in one bowlers hands on one lane condition.
--------------------
Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
Respect that 100%. However, reactive balls in general of the popular companies generally have negligible differences. As in, you can't really tell how one ball is better or worse than another of another company's. Basically the best ball of any of the top companies = the others. This Motiv ball, you can see the difference easily just by the pin action or lack there of and the nasty weak hit on that THS. I know one thing with this ball, you won't leave many 4 pins LOL.
Post by: JessN16 on December 29, 2008, 10:58:29 PM
quote:
Do you people not ever pay attention to things? At the intro to the video, it tells you that it has an aggressive cover and wants to read the lane condition earlier.
An earlier read of the lane means an earlier transition, which generally translates into a smoother, more predictable reaction. That is exactly what I see here. A ball that reads earlier, spreads the transition over a larger area, and moves less on the last 10 feet of lane than a skid/snap ball would.
I haven't thrown it, so I wouldn't know for sure, but the reaction reminds me of a particle ball or a very strong reactive solid. The ball is covering a lot of boards, just not all on the backend. Many people will prefer a ball motion similar to the one in the video.
People who watch Buddies videos also need to take into consideration that the volume of oil may not be as much as a ball is truly intended for and may have the ball reading a bit early, expending more energy in the front part of the lane than the ball is really designed to do. This will smooth out the reaction and make a ball look weaker than it actually is.
Perhaps Chris himself will chime in, or at least any other member of Buddies staff who has actually thrown it or seen it in person. Before I pass judgement on it, I want more evidence. It may be a piece of crap, it may not be, but you can't tell from just one video of it in one bowlers hands on one lane condition.
--------------------
Norm Duke was right
Good transactions list in my profile
My Bowl.com member page (http://"http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=2243&suffix=4831")
I missed the first part of the video. My player/browser fritzes out and I miss the first 5-10 seconds of a lot of YouTube and other videos.
Beyond that, you said pretty much what I was trying to say -- everything in the bag can't be skid/snap, unless you really like shooting alternating washouts and 3-6-10s when things get messy. I am one that prefers to have at least one ball with a very smooth transition in the backend. I wasn't considering Motiv before but now I'm thinking about it.
Jess
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on December 29, 2008, 11:03:17 PM
quote:
Man that thing sucks it rolls down the lane and knocks pins down.
Those are the worse type of bowling balls made.
Some of you people on this site need your parents to better watch your internet usage. Especially you there Necromancer!
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: bowlingnut07 on December 29, 2008, 11:05:31 PM
good control ball. doesnt hit bad either. why is it when a ball dont cover 45 boards its junk ? and just by watching this video i doubt u can honestly say u know this ball is junk. i bet as the above person said. move right problem solved. and he was still carrying light hits. and last time i checked 10 down is the object of the game.
Post by: SleepOnIce on December 29, 2008, 11:21:21 PM
Either way, I liked the ball reaction. I don't necessarily love bowling balls that kick sideways at the end of the pattern. So I'll give this one a look the next time I'm getting a ball.
--------------------
BLARGH
Post by: stormed1 on December 29, 2008, 11:53:42 PM
Post by: noturcuzin on December 30, 2008, 12:12:25 AM
--------------------
CHRIS FARLEY:1964-1997
JOHN CANDY:1950-1994
JOHN BELUSHI:1949-1982
"NO RESPECT, I GET NO RESPECT."-the great Rodney Dangerfield
InSite Bowling Products:2004-2008
Post by: Leonidas on December 30, 2008, 02:28:45 AM
quote:Very scientific and logical analysis, do you see anything more on this video, we cant see? By the way, there is a bowler how claims he can stay ahead of transition just by watching the pin action, do you take lessons from this guy?
This Motiv ball, you can see the difference easily just by the pin action or lack there of and the nasty weak hit on that THS. I know one thing with this ball, you won't leave many 4 pins LOL.
The rolling movement of this ball reminds me allot the Columbia Rival which is a good ball in my book. Unfortunately small companies have a hard time being established around here. I think the big distributors here don't care and don't want the pro shops to disturb the "usual business" with this kind of balls.
--------------------
yes and i like this one also
don't go for a strike, go for a sure spare, we need 5 pins to win
Post by: nd300 on December 30, 2008, 03:33:37 AM
Carrydown---for a lefty????????????????(RUNS AND HIDES FROM THE SNOWBALLS ABOUT TO BE THROWN BY THE OTHER LEFTYS HERE
)Neromancer,
I disagree.With his revs and power,light hits would be the order of the day.Seems that a move to the right MIGHT be an answer,but he'd also run the risk of smacking the nose on just about every shot.Then he'd be moving right back to where he already is.
JessN,
Right on.Seems that many bowlers want the latest and greatest "hook-in-a-box"reaction from every new ball on the market.That ball seems to want to stay clean,readable,and yet still carry when it gets there.
Leonidas,
You asked if there was a bowler who can stay ahead of transition by watching pin reaction???? Sure there is.Ask anyone here.His name is Robert Mushtare---lol.
Seriously,we ALL should be watching pin reaction and ball reaction to tell us what to do.ON EVERY SHOT.That's a basic trick that I've seen mentioned here many times when a new bowler asks for tips on improving his/her game.
--------------------
Chris
JTTDB---Just Throw The Damn Ball
Don't "think"---that ball isn't in your bag yet..........
Post by: WSUstroker on December 30, 2008, 07:25:28 AM
quote:
Looks like an Original Fury combined with an Ultimate Inferno. Purely a rolling reaction, with no skid flip that a house Hack wants to see.
People that can bowl can make this type of look work, and work well. People that can't will flat 10 or 2-8-10 it all day.
Looks like a tournament piece for tournament bowlers, rather than a league shot ball. Probably roll well on flatter patterns where there is less friction overall.
--------------------
Get on the G train.... GLOBAL BABY!
www.900global.com
Exactly. If you've ready any of Necro's posts, you know that is all he is looking for. Something to stand left, throw right and watch it rip back on a THS. Probably why he says he takes everything to 4000 and puts a marble shine on it.
Some bowlers who compete in tournaments with some oil and OB want some surface, and want a smooth reaction.
Some bowlers want to wheel the lane and kiss their biceps after a double.
--------------------
Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com
Post by: Badger856 on December 30, 2008, 07:59:28 AM
Post by: bowlingmytmouse on December 30, 2008, 08:03:39 AM
BMM
--------------------
Roto Grip forever!!!! What else is there??
Team Member Of
Hoss Central Inc.
Post by: scotts33 on December 30, 2008, 08:37:18 AM
SX1 works as well as any medium ball on the market right now. Some are cheaper but you get what you pay for.....I love the ball motion much like the older Big B equipment (ie. Command Zone, original Inferno). Don't buy it if you are looking for a huge hooker like a Virtual Gravity yadda yadda. You could take the surface down and make it hook more as Chris did in the video but for me I like it at 2000ab w/ small amount of Legends polish.
As far as carry down it doesn't hook stop anymore than any other solid medium ball out there....depending on bowlers technique, lane surface, lane condition, etc. The same could be said for many balls......during transition on league shots in the two houses I bowl at I either go around it send it right further with more axis rotation if I can or move right I am a RH'er and get firmer.....Chris does this in his TX1 shots in that video...not sure why he did not show this on the SX1 shots in that video.
Seems Necro has it in for Motiv but I have both of them and like what I see so far.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: Strider on December 30, 2008, 08:49:35 AM
If there was a doubt...
Everyone - 1
Necromancer - 0
--------------------
Penn State Proud
Ron Clifton's Bowling Tip Archive (http://"http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm")
Post by: sdbowler on December 30, 2008, 08:53:28 AM
--------------------
Kyle
Post by: scotts33 on December 30, 2008, 08:59:54 AM
quote:
There are much better balls than my B/G Centaur or Tour Power on a fresh house shot, but try to keep them out of my bag for sport shots.
Exactly Strider.....the SX1 will get big sport rating numbers when BTM does their ball review on these two Motiv balls in Feb. IMO.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on December 30, 2008, 09:16:43 AM
Not everyone throws the ball like Chris, or like Britton. Its just a ball reaction Video, to give you an idea on what a ball can do! this isn't a sport where you can test something 75% of the time like golf or baseball/softball. Something like that where you can test something before you buy it or easily use a buddies equipment cause everyone has different spans, pitches, finger and thumb sizes.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: six pack on December 30, 2008, 09:27:49 AM
I switched to a more rolly type of ball and series went up,average went up and bowling became less frustrating.just some food for thought.
the Motive ball may not look that impressive on the vid for some but what I see is a ball that looks very easy to use and score with.
--------------------
The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: gbrown on December 30, 2008, 09:44:53 AM
--------------------
raw need a coach
Weapons of choice
arch rival
rival
ultra zone
twisted solid
smash zone x 2
twisted fury
vapor zone
pit boss old faithfull
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on December 30, 2008, 09:56:39 AM
quote:quote:
My Zone Spare hits harder than it LOL!
--------------------
Current Arsenal Gallery (http://"http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q21/mikecart1/Bowling%20Arsenal/")
H: Brunswick Fury, Columbia 300 EPX T1
M-H: Storm Shift Gravity, Hammer Black Widow
M: Storm X-Factor Vertigo
M-L: Storm Recharge
S: Viz-A-Ball White
Bench: Brunswick Target Spare Zone, Ebonite 14 Fun Ball
GEMS: Brunswick Quantum Helix, Brunswick Quantum Double Helix
2008-09 Year 215.000 2008-09 Tourney 177.360 Last Tourney 182.667
2006-07 League Champions, Southern Comfort Winner
2007-08 League Champions
2008-09 Three-Peat???, Courvoisier Winner
Hall of Fame BR Member Since: April 3, 2001
Really???
Can we see a video of that???
He will never post a Video cause he is a bag of hot air...
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: Nor Cal Bowler on December 30, 2008, 09:59:37 AM
says the user selling a changeling for 195 undrilled...
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
Post by: thetruepack on December 30, 2008, 10:34:42 PM
--------------------
Move left throw right....
Arsenal
Columbia 300 Resurgence
Storm Agent (pin down)
Storm Agent (pin up)
Storm Dimension
Storm Fired Up
Storm Dark Thunder Solid
Storm Dark Thunder Pearl
Storm Rapid Fire
Storm Gravity Shift
Ebonite Raid
Ebonite Big Time
Ebonite V2 Sanded
Target Zone
Blanks
Storm Dark Thunder Solid
Storm Triple X-factor
Ebonite Big One
Post by: Spider Ball Bowler on December 30, 2008, 11:05:42 PM
quote:
With the whole, Chris needs to be more right thing on the Video, yes he does. But like what has been stated before alot of people want "hook in a box". He was showing the limits of what the ball can do.
Not everyone throws the ball like Chris, or like Britton. Its just a ball reaction Video, to give you an idea on what a ball can do! this isn't a sport where you can test something 75% of the time like golf or baseball/softball. Something like that where you can test something before you buy it or easily use a buddies equipment cause everyone has different spans, pitches, finger and thumb sizes.
--------------------
Visionary Test Staffer 08/09
www.visionarybowling.com
Looking for the following...
16# Visionary Frankie May Gryphon
16# Banger Hole Finder Pearl
16# InSite Revelation
If you watch the video of the other ball, he does move right after a few shots. Both look good, but the price is pretty high, so I'll wait on them.
--------------------
Ahhh Disco Biscuits!
Post by: wanajahana on January 02, 2009, 04:37:45 AM
Post by: KingofKings696 on January 02, 2009, 05:38:33 AM
Post by: ScottHewitt on January 05, 2009, 08:40:25 AM
The most significant difference between our MOTIVator-X cover and some other reactive urethane covers is that ours has a lower oil absorption rate. We conducted durability testing and found that a lot of the covers with high oil absorption rates also appear to be more brittle. Also, we have heard complaints from bowlers regarding the balls with high oil absorption going 'dead' because they get saturated with oil so quickly. So, we introduced a reactive urethane cover with a lower oil absorption rate to maximize reaction life and provide greater durability.
Regarding the video for the SX1 on youtube, I'm glad they showed the ball with the 1000 abralon finish half-way through because the box finish shown at the beginning reacts quite differently. The box finish is really for medium oil. For heavier oil, we recommend the 1000 abralon sanded finish. Of course, there are other more aggressive options, but 1000 is a good starting point. Tune the finish to match your game.
SX1 Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knsyrmIkMz0
TX1 Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Wf0xzz1IMw
Scott Hewitt
Tech-Line Products (MOTIV)
http://www.motivbowling.com/
Post by: JohnP on January 05, 2009, 10:34:06 AM
Post by: Krumpy300 on January 05, 2009, 10:52:04 AM
--------------------
Repetition is everything..
Post by: nospareball on January 05, 2009, 11:19:26 AM
The TX-1 looks like the resin version of the SX-1 IMO. It doesn't appear that either of these balls flare very much based on the closeup of the reaction. Maybe someone who has thrown one could verify if that is true or not.
--------------------
-Clint
Post by: scotts33 on January 05, 2009, 12:03:46 PM
quote:
The TX-1 looks like the resin version of the SX-1 IMO. It doesn't appear that either of these balls flare very much based on the closeup of the reaction. Maybe someone who has thrown one could verify if that is true or not.
They both flare a bunch depending on drill. I have both.
--------------------
Scott
Post by: los2003 on January 05, 2009, 11:56:55 PM
Edited on 1/6/2009 0:57 AM