BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Juggernaut on April 10, 2022, 08:10:59 PM
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This is going to sound dumb coming from someone who’s been bowling as long as I have, but I need some help/advice from some of you reactive era guys.
I’ve never really had a game plan for changing conditions. Just tried my best to read them, and adjust accordingly. But, I always struggle the last game, and don’t guess I really understand “moving left and wheeling it off the burnâ€.
Is there a plan?
What do you look for? A cleaner ball that’s flippier? An overall stronger reaction, or just something cleaner that is quicker response?
Help me out guys. Never took this part of the game serious enough I guess, and now that I’m almost 62, I sure could use some advice.
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Something that’s quicker, it’s helps to have a slow ball that flat 10s or ring 10s. You immediately know you can go to something faster, I usually make a 2/0 move when going to the quicker ball and adjust feet/target from there.
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If there is lots of friction I like pearl symmetric to save energy and provide stronger recovery. Nearly every one of these gets the gloss knocked off for a more consistent read of the friction.
Remember as you move inward to still throw a straight line to the breakpoint.
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I don't know if there's one plan to rule them all. The "gotcha" is that house shots are so wet-dry that you may need to start with the weaker ball then move left into the oil and use the stronger one, core and cover.
Basically experiment and try different things until one works. ;)
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I don't know if there's one plan to rule them all. The "gotcha" is that house shots are so wet-dry that you may need to start with the weaker ball then move left into the oil and use the stronger one, core and cover.
Basically experiment and try different things until one works. ;)
You definitely have to experiment to find what works.
In a fresh house shot scenario, I've been a fan of starting with a weaker ball and then moving in with something that's a little stronger and quicker.
I bowl a second shift league and I've learned this year that my 900G Money Badger for some reason isn't a great match to the conditions. I get in between with it, Hustle Camo or RST X-2 have looked much better.
Just bowled our county tournament a week ago and the Money Badger was $$$ for games 5-6 of doubles/singles after Marvel Maxx Pearl games 1-4. But this was burn on a lower friction surface, rather than the high friction surface where I've been bowling league.
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Well, on the fresh, I usually start with either my tank blitz or my covert tank. The MP cover smooths out the wet/dry, and tames some of the backends. I end up shooting anywhere from 200 to around 230.
Second game, I start seeing some carry down and switch to my UC3. It does really great on that, and I can shoot some really good scores the second game.
Third game comes, and the shot really deteriorates rapidly. I’ve tried just moving in with the UC3, but it’s just not enough. Once I get in a few boards, there’s enough head oil left, but just won’t recover. Last week I shoot 232-265-170 and this week I shoot 209-252-198.
Last game has been a struggle all year. Am I just playing them wrong?
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Well, on the fresh, I usually start with either my tank blitz or my covert tank. The MP cover smooths out the wet/dry, and tames some of the backends. I end up shooting anywhere from 200 to around 230.
Second game, I start seeing some carry down and switch to my UC3. It does really great on that, and I can shoot some really good scores the second game.
Third game comes, and the shot really deteriorates rapidly. I’ve tried just moving in with the UC3, but it’s just not enough. Once I get in a few boards, there’s enough head oil left, but just won’t recover. Last week I shoot 232-265-170 and this week I shoot 209-252-198.
Last game has been a struggle all year. Am I just playing them wrong?
Definitely need a reactive option, that's the issue
If you really like the UC3, I'd look towards the UC2
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Please post when you guys figure this out, I’m in a similar boat.
Last four weeks been seeing scores between 215 and 230 first two games. Last game is a struggle to get to 150. Shot just goes away. Everything jumps across the head pin. The track is burnt enough that I can’t get a ball to the right of it without really throwing it in the gutter. I start with a an old Hectic. I’ve tried that and an Idol Synergy. Plus anything that is right of 6 has huge over under issues for everyone.
Picked up a Raw Hammer Orange to try. Used a different layout on it, 70x5x45. Hope it helps this week.
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Definitely need a reactive option, that's the issue
If you really like the UC3, I'd look towards the UC2
I have several to choose from currently, but not a UC2.
Would it be better to go with a weaker cored, quick response type ball, or just an overall stronger one?
I own a pin up IQ TOUR pearl, a pin down Melee Jab red pearl, a pin down DV8 Night Prowler, a pin up Hyper Cell Fused, a pin in ring Electrify pearl, and a pin in ring Black Quantum. Oh, and a pin up polished Track Paradox red.
Of those, which way would you go?
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Definitely need a reactive option, that's the issue
If you really like the UC3, I'd look towards the UC2
I have several to choose from currently, but not a UC2.
Would it be better to go with a weaker cored, quick response type ball, or just an overall stronger one?
I own a pin up IQ TOUR pearl, a pin down Melee Jab red pearl, a pin down DV8 Night Prowler, a pin up Hyper Cell Fused, a pin in ring Electrify pearl, and a pin in ring Black Quantum. Oh, and a pin up polished Track Paradox red.
Of those, which way would you go?
Being that you're in a UC3 and it seems like you just need more motion, not necessarily something too weak... I'd look towards the HC Fused, Melee Jab, or Night Prowler. Assuming the Black Quantum is the recent version, that could be an option as well.
It comes down to experimenting to find what works since you have a few options that could work.
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Seconded on the HC Fused or Melee Jab. If you need something to hit the spot hard and kick left, the Fused. If that's creating over/under, go to the Jab. One should work.
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It depends on your strategy when you move in. Carry can be problematic for us slow speed strokers when we get deep on those house shots. I have had some luck with the Jab getting deep but bringing my break point in to keep the launch angles tighter. Alternatively if you want to try to open up the lane the UC2 rolls pretty good for me.
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Hi Juggernaut - Great question. Could you provide additional information. Does your bowling center have wood or synthetic lanes? Do you bowl in the evening or earlier in the day? What do you average? What about averages for game 1, 2, and 3. Are you a traditional bowler or two handed. What is your favorite bowling line? Can you loft the ball? What balls do you have? What weight? Do you know the Dual Angle Drill pattern numbers for each ball? Are you right or left handed? How many leagues do you bowl in? What are your goals? Just off the top of my head. Coach Denny
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Hi Juggernaut - Great question. Could you provide additional information.
1. Does your bowling center have wood or synthetic lanes?
SYNTHETIC
2. Do you bowl in the evening or earlier in the day?
6:00 P.M.
3. What do you average?
204 currently.
4. What about averages for game 1, 2, and 3?
205--210--196
5. Are you a traditional bowler or two handed?
TRADITIONAL ONE HANDER
6. What is your favorite bowling line?
TRACK AREA--Target around 10 to 12, breakpoint between 5 and 8, depending.
7. Can you loft the ball?
I can, but I hate to. Most times I'm inconsistent at it.
8. What balls do you have?
Pretty much anything I need. I've got 21 in the bedroom floor right now, and will buy anything I might need if I don't already have it. Here is a sampling:
1. Melee Jab Red
2. IQ Tour Pearl
3. Hyper Cell Fused
4. Electrify Pearl
5. Tundra Solid
6. Tundra Pearl
7. 900Global Badger Infused
8. Track Paradox Red (highly polished)
9. Black Quantum
10. Black Quantum #2 (Short pin to pap)
11. Circle Athletics High Voltage
12 Motiv Desert Tank
13. Motiv Covert Tank
14. Motiv Tank Blitz
15. DV8 Night Prowler
16. RotoGrip UC3
17 Web Tour Hybrid
You get the picture......
9. What weight?
15lbs
10. Do you know the Dual Angle Drill pattern numbers for each ball?
No, not really. I have a variety of drillings in them. Some pin up (smaller val angle), some pin down (larger val angle).
11. Are you right or left handed?
RIGHT HANDED
12. How many leagues do you bowl in?
One currently, but I used to bowl in several competitive leagues as well as a traveling league.
13. What are your goals?
To keep a 200 average for as long as I can.
Just off the top of my head. Coach Denny
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Prob a long shot, but if you could find an old Crimson Phantom in your weight , problem solved....I had one in 16 and when I recently went down to 14 was able to get a 14 pound one...with this core you won't even have to move inside, you'll get plenty of length, even in the dry part of the lane--I use mine as my driest option------the hard part would be finding one , but it'll work.
Brad
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Bowled last night.
Hugh humidity, approaches were sticky. I had issues most of the night with it.
Started with 143, 142 with my Hectic. Complete opposite of what I’d been doing the last bit.
Switched to the Raw Hammer Orange I just had drilled. 30, over 15 at the arrows, out to between 8-10. Shot 233.
Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.
The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.
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Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.
The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.
That “Clear the heads and pop off the back†part is what gets me. That’s what I’m looking for, but balling down they still want to read the burn too early, and puke on the carry down.
Balling up and moving in hasn’t worked either because I move into the oil to get the ball through the fronts, and it doesn’t want to come around the corner.
Think I’m going to try a strong Pearl or hybrid symmetrical ball. The IQ Tour Pearl and electrify Pearl don’t seem to have enough diff to get back, the asymmetric night prowler and hyper cell fused seem to roll forward too much and don’t enter the pocket right, the red melee is pin down (big Val angle) and is just too slow/smooth.
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Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.
The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.
That “Clear the heads and pop off the back†part is what gets me. That’s what I’m looking for, but balling down they still want to read the burn too early, and puke on the carry down.
Balling up and moving in hasn’t worked either because I move into the oil to get the ball through the fronts, and it doesn’t want to come around the corner.
Think I’m going to try a strong Pearl or hybrid symmetrical ball. The IQ Tour Pearl and electrify Pearl don’t seem to have enough diff to get back, the asymmetric night prowler and hyper cell fused seem to roll forward too much and don’t enter the pocket right, the red melee is pin down (big Val angle) and is just too slow/smooth.
So another Melee Jab pin up then, a Stellar could be good too since it's med rg with higher diff still, Kinetic, Supra
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Juggernaut, maybe try something the will clear the front a bit easier but pop off the spot and give bouncing it off the burn shot during the third game.
The track area seemed to have gotten pretty beat up watching the reaction of everyone else.
That “Clear the heads and pop off the back†part is what gets me. That’s what I’m looking for, but balling down they still want to read the burn too early, and puke on the carry down.
Balling up and moving in hasn’t worked either because I move into the oil to get the ball through the fronts, and it doesn’t want to come around the corner.
Think I’m going to try a strong Pearl or hybrid symmetrical ball. The IQ Tour Pearl and electrify Pearl don’t seem to have enough diff to get back, the asymmetric night prowler and hyper cell fused seem to roll forward too much and don’t enter the pocket right, the red melee is pin down (big Val angle) and is just too slow/smooth.
Believe me, I know what you mean about wanting to read the burn too early. I was going to go with the blue Silver Raw, but my son said it was picky off the spot compared to the Orange Black. He collaborated with a coworker on the ball choice. He really thought a Pearl was a better option for me, but with the limited stock, the pickiness lost out. He suggested the layout too.
I like the Pearl or Hybrid part. Maybe work with your pro shop on a layout to help with getting through the burn. My son erased my layout 4x before settling on what he did. Just kept saying it didn’t look right for what I needed.
One more week left and I’m taking time off. I really need it.
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Sometimes you need a new trick and not a new ball.
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Sometimes you need a new trick and not a new ball.
Yeah, I get that, and I agree, but I’m about out of tricks.
Used to have a bag of tricks bigger than Felix the Cat, but Father Time and a shattered elbow that won’t straighten completely out anymore take their toll.
Had to relearn my hand/eye coordination 10 years ago, as the elbow surgery left me with a complete different armswing and ability to project the ball, rotate it correctly, and hit my target. When I first got back, my eyes and arm were out of sync by about 6 boards.
Maybe I should just accept that it’s something I just can’t do?
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
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If you want to try a new ball try something with an RG: 2.55 or higher with a low diff and drill it pin down Storm Match ups were really good in that layout not many balls with those specs though but trust me it works
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
That’s not a trick that’s lane play
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
That’s not a trick that’s lane play
False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.
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Hi Juggernaut - I to love my bowling. I am 81 and enjoy getting up in the morning, going to league, I am in 4 leagues at different centers, and enjoying throwing shots. Also, I truly enjoy coaching. I am a Silver / Gold Level coach and a high school coach. What I have found for your stated topic is a special Dual Angle Drill Pattern. This pattern will push the ball down the lane and give you a control trajectory arc. This takes away the big snap down lane but lets you keep the ball in front of you. Some of my arsenal examples - 1. Nova (RG 2.49 / Diff 0.052), 70* x 4" x 75* = 145*, 2. Katana Dragon (RG 2.503 / Diff 0.050) 70* x 5" x 75* = 145*, 3. Soul (RG 2.583 / Diff 0.041) 90* x 2.25" x 458 = 135*, 4. Proton PhysiX (RG 2.48 / Diff 0.053) 70* x 5' x 75* = 145*. Note these balls are Solid or HyBrid and have lower to mid level RG's and higher Differentials. With these balls I able to stay right of the other players. Talk with your PSO and come to a quality solution. Coach Denny
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
That’s not a trick that’s lane play
False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.
Absolutely FALSE
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
That’s not a trick that’s lane play
False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.
Absolutely FALSE
No need to fuss about it guys, I’ve been around long enough to know what he means, and no disrespect was meant. He’s just keeping it real, and he’s right, not many my age would be trying to move in and circle the lane.
From what I’ve gathered in this discussion is that I have an idea of what to do, I’ve just been going about it the wrong way, and with an incorrect mindset.
Going to get a shiny ball, maybe one with a bit higher RG, with a diff around .050 and a quicker response cover, drill it to flare later than usual, and recognize my current ability and limitation levels.
Maybe I can do it, maybe I can’t, but either way it’s up to me.
Thanks for the advice and help guys. I’ve often said there was far more knowledge here than people often realized, and this conversation shows that.
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
That’s not a trick that’s lane play
False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.
Absolutely FALSE
No need to fuss about it guys, I’ve been around long enough to know what he means, and no disrespect was meant. He’s just keeping it real, and he’s right, not many my age would be trying to move in and circle the lane.
From what I’ve gathered in this discussion is that I have an idea of what to do, I’ve just been going about it the wrong way, and with an incorrect mindset.
Going to get a shiny ball, maybe one with a bit higher RG, with a diff around .050 and a quicker response cover, drill it to flare later than usual, and recognize my current ability and limitation levels.
Maybe I can do it, maybe I can’t, but either way it’s up to me.
Thanks for the advice and help guys. I’ve often said there was far more knowledge here than people often realized, and this conversation shows that.
Have you considered going down in weight on a ball for that third game? Something that you might naturally/easily be able to get a bit more oomph on to get it through the burn?
That was the original idea with my Hectic. I was throwing 15, it’s about 13.5. It was a gift from a lefty. My pro shop knew my issues and just looked at the layout and suggested maybe a slight move of the thumb, it would go way down lane before hooking. It was perfect. Then health issues have gotten the better of me and it’s now my main ball as 15 is just too heavy currently. 14s seem heavy, but I am muddling through with them - had a couple drilled up.
The lighter weight, offset layout gave me what seemed to be 45’ of easy distance then it would make a small move to the pocket. Carry was and still is and issue, but 9 was better than hurting myself trying to make something work from areas of the lane I just didn’t want to be in.
Just another thought.
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Have you considered going down in weight on a ball for that third game? Something that you might naturally/easily be able to get a bit more oomph on to get it through the burn?
That was the original idea with my Hectic. I was throwing 15, it’s about 13.5. It was a gift from a lefty. My pro shop knew my issues and just looked at the layout and suggested maybe a slight move of the thumb, it would go way down lane before hooking. It was perfect. Then health issues have gotten the better of me and it’s now my main ball as 15 is just too heavy currently. 14s seem heavy, but I am muddling through with them - had a couple drilled up.
The lighter weight, offset layout gave me what seemed to be 45’ of easy distance then it would make a small move to the pocket. Carry was and still is and issue, but 9 was better than hurting myself trying to make something work from areas of the lane I just didn’t want to be in.
Just another thought.
Yes, actually I have.
I used 14lbs for a while a few years back (due to a wrist situation), and had great luck with it. I, personally, couldn’t tell the difference in carry much. The light shots didn’t kick quite as hard, but the flush ones were just as solid as with 15lb stuff.
May look at that for next season. I usually buy some newer stuff ever season, and might drop down next year. Certainly not afraid of it at all.
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Not many guy’s trick at 62 is moving left and circling the lane.
That’s not a trick that’s lane play
False, it is a trick. If you don’t have the appropriate tilt and/or axis rotation the ball will stand up and go forward flagging the headpin.
Absolutely FALSE
No need to fuss about it guys, I’ve been around long enough to know what he means, and no disrespect was meant. He’s just keeping it real, and he’s right, not many my age would be trying to move in and circle the lane.
From what I’ve gathered in this discussion is that I have an idea of what to do, I’ve just been going about it the wrong way, and with an incorrect mindset.
Going to get a shiny ball, maybe one with a bit higher RG, with a diff around .050 and a quicker response cover, drill it to flare later than usual, and recognize my current ability and limitation levels.
Maybe I can do it, maybe I can’t, but either way it’s up to me.
Thanks for the advice and help guys. I’ve often said there was far more knowledge here than people often realized, and this conversation shows that.
High RG + shine sounds like a nightmare unless you’re bowling on gravel.
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High RG + shine sounds like a nightmare unless you’re bowling on gravel.
“A bit higher†doesn’t mean I’m going to something 2.6 or above.
Much of what I’ve been using has been on the low side, so I was actually talking about a more “middle of the road†type ball.
Somewhere around 2.50–2.55 with between .050 and .055 diff. Amount of shiny would depend on where it starts to slow down really.
I agree otherwise. My Tundra Pearl was skid/flip stupidly unpredictable unless they were dead dry or I changed the surface.
Ive got stuff I can “keep in front of meâ€, just not a combination that lets me “swing it and bring itâ€. Like was stated earlier, I may not even be able to anymore, but I think I can, if I find the right combination of things for me.
Gonna try anyway. Tired of coming up short game three.