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Author Topic: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?  (Read 10713 times)

xrayjay

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Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« on: July 02, 2015, 04:07:11 PM »
I may get crap'd on for this, but.......

Is the modern swing totally free of muscle? There are many bowlers with a low pushaway but a very high back swing. There has to be muscle used to get it up that high over their heads. Also, the moments before the release, totally free of muscle?. Most accelerate through the release point, there has to be muscles used. In some cases, the hand is even pre set in an unnatural position at set up, to keep it there, muscles are used. then there's the coiling and uncoilig part of the release - muscles are used. Furthermore, the elbow flexes slightly on the down swing with some bowlers. If the arm is totally relaxed and no muscles used, this is very hard to do. There has to be muscle applied. So how can we say to develope a "totally free of muscle swing?" Some even start the pushaway using muscle.....

Plus, the "pendulum swing"....a pendulum is a fixed point. So shouldn't it be called a "moving pendulum" since the shoulder (fixed point) is moving forward and down.??

I've read many bowling books/articles and always get confused or question these everytime I read about these two things I've mentioned. I'm not disrespecting JJ and other bowling experts, but in the real world through my eyes, evolution of the game, and my work and martial arts experience, these don't really hold true IMO. I may not be a "bowling expert", but maybe I do know a little bit of the physiology of the shoulder and other sport related anatomy working in sports medicine a few years removed. Put on a moxy monitor or a like and go bowl...SmO2 levels don't change when a bowlers swings and rolls the ball, then I'll believe that statement "totally free of muscle swing"...

Anyway, power starts from the ground up. but, a totally relaxed punch will just be a noodle hit. (and you can break you hand) A totally relaxed muscle free swing isn't going have that "uhmph" and proper roll with the modern game. A "totally relaxed pendulum swing" statement isn't what it used to be.....
« Last Edit: July 02, 2015, 04:12:58 PM by xrayjay »
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bergman

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2015, 10:23:44 PM »
This is in response to your question, "is the modern swing totally free of muscle?"

Most elite bowlers (PBA) do in fact, deploy varied degrees of "muscle" somewhere
within the swing cycle. Ronnie Russell appears to be such a bowler. Keep in mind that
elite bowlers are blessed with tons of natural ability. This natural ability is what sets
them apart from everybody else. They are able to use muscle and still be able to
repeat quality shots again and again. However, it is a fact that the more you let gravity dictate the pace and timing of your swing, the more consistent you will be---shot after shot. Gravity swings the ball at the same rate of speed all the time.
And, by allowing gravity to dictate swing timing, a bowler is better able to synchronize their footwork WITH their armswing speed.

In regards to bowlers who have low pushaways and "quiet" shoulders it
is also important to remember that the forward motion of the body (the footwork)
contributes to backswing height all by itself. This forward motion generates
inertia that exerts a forward (pulling) force against the bowler's (bowling ) arm . As the body
moves forward in the initial phases of the approach, it wants to pull the ball along with it. But, the ball "responds" with an equal but opposite force of its own--in the opposite direction. This
force contributes to backswing height. This force gets interrupted however, if muscle
is applied at this point--leading to a LOWER backswing height. When this happens,
bowlers will try to make up for it by adding MORE muscle in an effort to increase backswing height.

As JustRico stated, it is extremely difficult to have good timing
when muscle is introduced because it is very hard to repeat shot after shot. Not so with a gravity fed swing. In the past there were a few elite bowlers who generated
little or no pushway, and kept their bowling shoulders stationary, but still managed to generate sufficient backswing height, without using muscle to pull the ball into the backswing. Jim Stefanich and John Handegard were two of the best at this. This
technique was known as 'walking past the ball". They had extremely loose armswings that were dictated by the force of gravity alone. You can see this technique by
watching these 2 greats on old videos that can be accessed on You Tube.

If muscle is to be used, it should be minimized. Muscling on the downswing is
the worst place to deploy it because it usually results in squeezing the ball and a loss of balance
at release. It is better to wait for the ball to arrive at the release. Don't pull down on it. Don't get anxious and try to bowl before the ball wants to "bowl".

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2015, 01:51:53 AM »
Good responses.  Of course we use muscles to bowl, it's just that we don't want to feel like we do.  Proper footwork, timing, leverage, and gravity seem to be "key" with the best bowlers. 

How those words apply to you or me is very "individual", and therein lies each of our challenge.  What may "click" for me may not make any sense to the next guy.  It's still about the ability to repeat good shots consistently. 

If you can repeat good shots regularly then you merely need to "relax the brain" and LET IT HAPPEN instead of MAKING IT HAPPEN.  When we try to make it happen we risk applying force (muscle) in an inconsistent manner with inconsistent results.

One of life's great challenges is when we are young and most gifted physically the mental side of the game lags way behind.  Then after years of experience we learn to train our minds to be our greatest asset (instead of our bodies that lose strength and flexibility as we age).

What I'm getting at (eventually) is the question of the muscle-free swing and it's reliance on a strong mental game, and trusting in our own abilities instead of trying to be something or someone we're not.  Did any of that make sense??? ;)


« Last Edit: July 03, 2015, 01:54:42 AM by notclay »

itsallaboutme

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2015, 07:39:19 AM »
Like they say in golf- effortless power vs. powerless effort.

Tension free is probably a better description. 

bergman

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2015, 10:17:35 AM »
Indeed.  Very true.  Wasn't it the great Ben Hogan who once said, "If the greatest golfers in the world held their forks as they did their golf clubs---they would starve to death?"

avabob

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2015, 10:57:33 AM »
People have told me I have one of the purest pendulum arm swings they have ever seen.  I use leverage and timing to minimize the effort in my swing, but I am very aware of using muscle to get my back swing higher, and am also aware of accelerating at the bottom. 

Good Times Good Times

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2015, 11:02:25 AM »
God-given talent > textbooks

That doesn't mean textbooks have no meaning.......but ^^ is true.
GTx2

xrayjay

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2015, 11:48:37 AM »
Like they say in golf- effortless power vs. powerless effort.

Tension free is probably a better description. 

That sounds better than:

"TOTALLY muscle free arm swing" from BTM article I read.

In karate/boxing, An effective, smooth, quick, and powerful punch (release) has to have the body working in the right manner (technique) and right timing. Understanding when to activate muscles and when to deactivate them is key. good bowlers do this but most are unaware of it.
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JustRico

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2015, 12:35:53 PM »
As I stated before, most do not understand the principle of strength vs muscle...the proper amount of strength creates the appearance of muscle less swing motion and there is so much more that goes into the bio mechanics of the approach that creates effortless power
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JustRico

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2015, 01:05:40 PM »
Another way to think of it is, if you are inconsistent with your targeting or shot making it lends itself towards too much muscle in the swing causing the inconsistencies (can't muscle it the same way twice) and improper movements in the approach and/or timing
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Brickguy221

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2015, 01:50:52 PM »
Another way to think of it is, if you are inconsistent with your targeting or shot making it lends itself towards too much muscle in the swing causing the inconsistencies (can't muscle it the same way twice) and improper movements in the approach and/or timing

Sadly I hate to say it, but that is me EXACTLY     :(   ^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"

JustRico

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2015, 02:10:05 PM »
More times than not, muscling is created by too heavy a bowling ball (lack of strength) improper fit (undue or unnecessary squeezing - muscle) or improper timing...
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Brickguy221

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2015, 02:42:28 PM »
More times than not, muscling is created by too heavy a bowling ball (lack of strength) improper fit (undue or unnecessary squeezing - muscle) or improper timing...

I originlly threw both 14 & 15 lb balls, However, I had to drop to  12# after all of my surgeries and health problems 2 & 3 years ago and now throwing 13# for the last 6-7 mos. I will say it seems I did better with 12# than 13# as my average was 10-12 pins higher with the 12# than it is now with 13#.
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JustRico

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2015, 02:45:35 PM »
Brick I'm sorry but please read your post and tell me the logic in it lol

Can you explain to be the thought process of going up in weight other than to lower your scores (:
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Brickguy221

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Re: Do we use "Muscle free swing" too loosely?
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2015, 04:44:47 PM »
Brick I'm sorry but please read your post and tell me the logic in it lol

Can you explain to be the thought process of going up in weight other than to lower your scores (:

I thought the 13# would improve my scores when I went up in weight. To date it doesn't appear to be that way. Seems since I muscle the ball more than I like, I believe I had more control with the 12# balls with that lighter weight when muscling than I do now.
"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away"