Author Topic: My 4-step Oddities (Read 2998 times)

n00dlejester · « **on:** July 08, 2008, 12:48:19 AM »

So it's been about 2 months since my coach has me switching over from 5 steps to 4. I've been working on it in league (one PBAx, one THS), and practice another time at least once a week. My ball speed is up from 14-15mph at the pin deck to 15.5-16.5 consistently at the pin deck (depending on condition). The carry has gone way up on light and heavy hits; I got more messengers these last two months than I have the past 8 years (no joke). Same goes for trip 4 pins.

While this is all awesome, I feel like my consistency has gone out the window. I've left a lot of multi-pin spares, and a lot of splits. I feel like my ball reaction isn't as consistent as it was with 5 steps. Last lesson my coach said it was because my throwing hand wasn't doing the same thing twice in a row. I was apparently still setting my right arm before going into step 1. So I'm making a conscience effort to stabilize my right hand, THEN go. Has anybody else had problems with this, or something similar maybe?

Then, I'm having trouble with my balance at the foul line. There are a handful of times a week where I'm sort of just dipping my right shoulder and tugging the ball into oblivion. Well, not oblivion, but through the nose. How do you guys help your balance at the foul line?

Sorry this was so long winded, but I'm just hoping somebody's had similar issues as me. I've just been rather frustrated lately, and hopefully venting will help clear my head. I finished my winter with a 211 average, and I haven't bowled a higher set than a 617 all summer on a THS

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charlest · « **Reply #1 on:** July 08, 2008, 09:16:45 AM »

So, why did he push you from 5 steps to 4 steps?
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n00dlejester · « **Reply #2 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:01:07 AM »

*digs up video* Here is me with 5 steps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbw5xK4mhPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiWqjrb2v_o&feature=related

I had no pushaway, and sort of just dropped the ball and had to muscle the ball back up and usually back down. I wasn't exactly consistent with my shots, don't get me wrong it wasn't bad. But by having a pushaway and a pendulum, when I get into a groove it's REALLY easy to keep. Maybe I'm just totally over-thinking it all. My last lesson I felt somewhat inconsistent but my coach thought otherwise.

I also was walking around the ball with 5 steps. That's tough to notice in the first video, but I positioned my hand right in front of my gut. Now I hold it to side and let it flow instead of trying to dodge the ball from hitting my knees (it happened twice actually).
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scotts33 · « **Reply #3 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:16:57 AM »

Here's my take. Most instructors that want a 5 step player to go to 4 step may chage them to get the ball in swing sooner/more in time. I know for myself I develop late timing when using 5 steps.

Hank Boomershine showed me this as one of my main faults and when I can't generate more ball speed in that I delay too long and don't develop enough free arm swing. 4 generally made me move the ball into the swing sooner and freed up my arm swing. Though in a lot of ways I still prefer 5 steps or 4 1/2 to 4.

Maybe this is an issue n00dlejester?
--------------------
Scott

Edited on 7/8/2008 10:17 AM

se7en · « **Reply #4 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:25:22 AM »

I changed from 5 to 4 as well. What my problem was until recently was that I wasn't waiting on the ball at the top of the backswing. I slowed my pushaway down a bit and focused on making sure my slide foot hit the line before my ball passed the ankle (late timing).

With the late timing, my leverage is better. The problem I'm running into now though, is that I went from dumping balls out too wide to the right with a lack of leverage and falling off shots to tugging them on occasion. I've got to find a medium.
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Grayson · « **Reply #5 on:** July 08, 2008, 10:49:35 AM »

quote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dbw5xK4mhPA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiWqjrb2v_o&feature=related

I had no pushaway, and sort of just dropped the ball and had to muscle the ball back up and usually back down. I wasn't exactly consistent with my shots, don't get me wrong it wasn't bad. But by having a pushaway and a pendulum, when I get into a groove it's REALLY easy to keep. Maybe I'm just totally over-thinking it all. My last lesson I felt somewhat inconsistent but my coach thought otherwise.

I also was walking around the ball with 5 steps. That's tough to notice in the first video, but I positioned my hand right in front of my gut. Now I hold it to side and let it flow instead of trying to dodge the ball from hitting my knees (it happened twice actually).
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Still.. I have to do this... sorry pal!

First let's have a look at the first VID first:

your positioning on the apporach happens with wour RIGHT foot... well... I have learned to do it with the left. but as long as it works out for you....

2nd:
timing is excellent! Why did you change? your arm and footwork seems to be A+ working for me!

3rd:
Why did you have the feeling you just dropped the ball?
Let's have a look at three screenshots I took:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/99/4919499/1280_3163326461666364.jpg
Doesn't look too bad you might say. So lets take the next picture just a second later:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/99/4919499/1280_6339623732613361.jpg

Look at your shoulders and your right foot.

What's wrong here in my oppinion is that you do not keep your shoulders up and your right foot on the ground which is caused by you bowing down and so you do not get enough leverage on the ball but you're instead "losing" it as you feel it.
this is after the release:
http://foto.arcor-online.net/palb/alben/99/4919499/1280_3135386630656237.jpg

So I would try to keep your upper body a tad straigher/up moving your center of gravitiy (the one of your body... this has nothing to do with your ball

) more inside towards your sliding foot.

It will improve balance as you get your right foot down and you will be able to keep your hand more behind the ball.

and so we come to the second vid:
your backswing is very nice and you keep your hand behind the ball but instead of following throu you bend your elbow and grab the ball with your fingers.

I know those two methods can make a good hook but with your upper boday being to the right you (again) don't get the leverage.

For me it seems you just force it too much...

I know this all is futile as the Vids are old etc and you changed major things already but maybe you could shoot a new Vid?

the only thing I don't like in those two Vids is your last step... the moment you release the ball.
Your timing is fine (or was fine... dunno how it is now)

So about your actual "balance" and "tugging" problem:
if you're still dropping your shoulder (which might cause the balance problem though you seem steady in those vids)...
try to avoid grabbing the ball... just let it go... don't "chicken wing" it either and you'll see it will hit it's spot as all you then do to direct it is moving your arm towars it's target.
then timing comes into play again... the trick is to rev it the moment your thumb left the ball but your fingers are still in. You have no chance changing the direction of the ball then! but the upward movement of the arm will rev it and then the ball will hook

But I would try to work on a more stable and upper body which will get you a feeling of being more stable at the foulline. Just an idea. I have no clue how you bowl these days.

the stability at the foulline and letting the ball just go will avoid tugging it . You might have to work out how to hook it again but that will come soon back! Hand position and finger work is the key.

Again:

upper body more upwards and shoulders more steady - get right foot down (or it should get down as soon as you stop leaning to the right so much)
avoid elbow bending too soon (you can do it... but when it is too soon your ball is tugged left - timing is the key)
avoid finger grabbing (see elbow same here... with your fingers you can rev it but you also might grab it... muscle it... and then it is off target)

KEep in mind there are three major things that make a good bowler:
Balance
Timing
Having fun

Have fun!
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
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"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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n00dlejester · « **Reply #6 on:** July 08, 2008, 11:05:30 AM »

Grayson, those videos were taken probably about 6-8 months ago. And the dropping I was talking about was my lack of pushaway. I went:
Step 1: still
Step 2: still
Step 3: drop
Step 4: muscle the ball up
Step 5: hurl

Instead of pushing the ball away from me on step 2, I made up the time by just dumping the ball at my knees and lifting.

I agree that before I was using a lot more finger than I am now. Now, the ball does all the work. It reads the lane MUCH better (when thrown properly). When I do grab, which does still happen, the ball revs up way too soon and it's soo slow and my timing becomes really late. But I've gotten better in that aspect I believe (hopefully I'll get a few more videos this weekend).

My balance is an issue again though. I think one thing I need to work on to help with balance is following all the way through and hitting near my ear (bill of a cap). My coach said when I'm at the foul line, to "stick it" like a gymnastics Olympic athlete. One problem that has probably plagued me forever.

All things considered, when I throw a ball right I can feel it. All the weight is on my fingers, the ball comes out without hanging up (my gripping of the ball), and it reads the lane great. I have more backend angle now, which is helping with my better carry. But it's my rudiments that are hindering my performance now, definitely not the balls. Granted these are growing pain, they're very frustrating pains.
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Grayson · « **Reply #7 on:** July 08, 2008, 11:32:46 AM »

well... then all it needs is practice,no!

--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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n00dlejester · « **Reply #8 on:** July 08, 2008, 01:09:36 PM »

Haha, I hope. Tonight I'm going to have a beer or two before I bowl, clear up my brain and just do what feels natural.

Grayson, thank you kindly for that epic comment. Are you a coach by any chance?
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charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** July 08, 2008, 02:51:08 PM »

quote:
Haha, I hope. Tonight I'm going to have a beer or two before I bowl, clear up my brain and just do what feels natural.
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Sure, go ahead and mess EVERYTHING up by doing that!

Just got a chance to see the videos.
It just looks like to needed to step back a little on the approach and allow yourself to push the ball away a little bit. It also looked like you were rushing it with the feet so of course you had to muscle it to get some sort of backswing to permit the ball to catch up with your feet.

Maybe your coach needs 4 steps to teach the timing?
But if it works for you, then fine.
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themagician · « **Reply #10 on:** July 08, 2008, 02:58:54 PM »

Thats a tough move n00dlejester, I know as I have been working on the same thing, much of the same exact issue with the pushaway and the struggles.

Of late i'm starting to settle in, but still have a few kinks in my swing direction and timing, mainly the swing direction when its going up but i'm progressing well and have worked hard at it and things are coming together.

Just remember stick with it and don't give up, you'll get through it and be better off.
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Grayson · « **Reply #11 on:** July 08, 2008, 03:09:25 PM »

quote:
Haha, I hope. Tonight I'm going to have a beer or two before I bowl, clear up my brain and just do what feels natural.

Grayson, thank you kindly for that epic comment. Are you a coach by any chance?
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*sarcasm on*Well as stated... getting a beer before bowling might not be the worst of idea * sarcasm off*
...Honestly one beer isn't too bad to relax... as long as you keep it with one!

Relaxing never is a bad idea in bowling and if that SINGLE beer helps you

The trick is to train the thing you need to do till you don't need the training any more... train it to a point all you need to do it right then is just do it.

... and no... I am not an official coach... yet.
--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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n00dlejester · « **Reply #12 on:** July 08, 2008, 03:16:55 PM »

Sounds good Grayson! I think this week I'm going to try and hit up a neutral bowling center to practice with.

And thanks for the words of encouragement magicmike, I appreciate it very much!
How long have you been working on this?

I hope I can get video either this week or weekend so you guys can see the difference in my approach. It's a bit faster, but the timing is all there. My torso isn't as far forward as it was in those videos.
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n00dlejester · « **Reply #13 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:40:08 AM »

So the beer helped for about a game and a half.

On my THS league, I went 237, 185, 159. I had 5 opens on the night, all splits. When you leave a few splits, what does it mean? The lanes were absolutely flooded last night. I was playing straight up 5 and had an alright look. If I tugged it a bit it held, but if I got it outside a bit, hello in your face. Middle of game 2, transition came in the form of some earlier hook, so I moved over a board and hit high flush, crushed the pocket, then the ball just took off the next two frames. I moved another board, and my ball just skated. It was a really tight shot, and I wasn't executing well after game 1.

I found myself pushing away, but not straight ahead in front of the pendulum area, more towards my right shoulder. I fixed that, had a few nice shots, then something else went crazy. I can't tell what, but it didn't feel as smooth or natural.

But the good news is we somehow won, which was cool. Just...I hope that I can work these issues out. For those of you who made switches to your physical game, how long did it take you?
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Grayson · « **Reply #14 on:** July 09, 2008, 07:56:22 AM »

ok just another tip:

You recognized the transition and responded as you say by "moving one board"

How exactly?

Did you move the complete line one board? In or out?
or did you move on the approach or did you move your target?

Cause on "flooded" lanes what you might have seen is the creation of a track area and mos people response my moving in with their feet and trying to keep the target which doesn work as they then play out in the oil and don't get the ball back... and when they miss and hit the dry boards created by the balls played there it is or try to play that track area... whatever... any miss means - TADA: over under

I don't know what ball you used... I guess as you call it a flood at least a solid or a pearl particle or even a solid particle... those would be the best choice imho: smooth rollers that don't freak out but cut through the oil and make it
If you used a pearl ... no problem! works fine, too.

For me and for my Machine (C+ is not drilled so I have to use the pearl particle evne on the ugliest oil) the best way to deal with track area building up (dry boards from play) is either move completly out (2 boards right of inital target also with feet while playing a tad fast or with less hook... had position adjustment)
or what I find easier: move in 2 boards with the complete line and take advantage of the oil

both have the same danger for me: going through the nose... but the roll is more predictable then playing a wider shot and praying for it to come back... and next shot seeing freak out and going brooklyn.

Well... the score's are nice! the only drawback is the last game cause if - let's say you always shoot 8/ you get at least 180!
Anything below means spare shooting is not 100% good enough.

I am right at the same scoring pace as you are and eager to break the 200 soon and the most important thing now (that we can hit the pocket constantly

) ist not only to hit the pocket but increase carry by varying the impact angle.... and of course... get the spares!

I calculated right now that I can not allow more than one open frame per game if I want to score a 200 average... anything worse... and bye bye.

How's that for you? How many "misstakes" can you allow? (can you?

)

Well... Just some thoughts.

--------------------
Sebastian Koch
"Have fun and bowl well!" - Grayson
"Some things are made so even idiots won't fail using them.... But I ask what about the genius?" - Grayson

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Author Topic: My 4-step Oddities (Read 2998 times)

n00dlejester

My 4-step Oddities

charlest

Re: My 4-step Oddities

n00dlejester

Re: My 4-step Oddities

scotts33

Re: My 4-step Oddities

se7en

Re: My 4-step Oddities

Grayson

Re: My 4-step Oddities

n00dlejester

Re: My 4-step Oddities

Grayson

Re: My 4-step Oddities

n00dlejester

Re: My 4-step Oddities

charlest

Re: My 4-step Oddities

themagician

Re: My 4-step Oddities

Grayson

Re: My 4-step Oddities

n00dlejester

Re: My 4-step Oddities

n00dlejester

Re: My 4-step Oddities

Grayson

Re: My 4-step Oddities