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Author Topic: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball  (Read 1844 times)

mj79

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need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« on: March 26, 2010, 09:49:59 AM »
My driller watch me throw a few games and said i could have alot more on the ball if I wouldnt come up the side of my ball , ( 90 degree axis ? ) Does that mean Im turning my wrist to early or what? Now Im getting confused


PAP

3 3/4 right , 3/4 down

5 1/2 x 3 1/2
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Edited on 3/26/2010 5:50 PM

 

mj79

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2010, 06:11:31 PM »
is it tough to change? Like in golf if you swing a certain way and its wrong its tough to change after doing it for so many years.. ??  Ive thrown this way for a long time ( 15+ years )  and held a 200 avg, so is it worth changing? Or is it going to be a long process.  When I turn my hand early I guess i "think" Im giving it more spin/hook etc, but never notice it...

Any help would be great !!

Also Do the new digital cameras nowadays  have pretty good video recording ( FPS, HD etc ) Because I would love to throw a game or so, from a few different angles on how I release the ball, then be able to view it in slow motion
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Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone

16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev

Work in progress

icewall

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2010, 10:18:21 PM »
yes its worth it as this is exactly what I did.

plus i soon realized that 45 degrees of rotation is usually PLENTY and I get better carry when I play with less angle into the pocket. rev rate did increase a little more as well as my ability to improve accuracy.

it wasnt too hard to change, the tough part for me was changing my swing to a relaxed one as well as getting down and balanced. (a lot to change at once)

mj79

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2010, 10:24:14 PM »
quote:
yes its worth it as this is exactly what I did.

plus i soon realized that 45 degrees of rotation is usually PLENTY and I get better carry when I play with less angle into the pocket. rev rate did increase a little more as well as my ability to improve accuracy.

it wasnt too hard to change, the tough part for me was changing my swing to a relaxed one as well as getting down and balanced. (a lot to change at once)




Hmm < So im at a 90 degree tilt now from rotating my wrist to early correct? Im gonna try it.. What do i have to keep in my mind when Im doing it? Just to keep my palm facing up a little longer before release? I have a feeling Im gonna be hitting alot of gutters and not getting much reaction off the bat here lol
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Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone

16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev

Work in progress

snowspike1

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2010, 11:07:13 PM »
one thing to try is to feel the ball come off your ring finger.  That should help in the over rotating. .. its what i do when i notice the same problem

mj79

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2010, 11:59:37 PM »
Lol thanks man.  I still have a feeling I'm gonna be getting a few new scuff marks on the ball tho
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Brunswick Diamondback
Brunswick T Zone

16.5 mph ball speed
330 Rev

Work in progress

Jay

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2010, 03:17:55 AM »
Nah, just make sure you square up more at first.  That should help prevent sending the ball right and in case your lose side rotation the ball should still make it to the head pin.
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Justin

Tondo

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2010, 04:00:15 AM »
quote:
Hmm < So im at a 90 degree tilt now from rotating my wrist to early correct? Im gonna try it.. What do i have to keep in my mind when Im doing it? Just to keep my palm facing up a little longer before release? I have a feeling Im gonna be hitting alot of gutters and not getting much reaction off the bat here lol


  Try posting a video if you can. It is real hard to give good advice w/o seeing what you are doing with your game. Most people's concept of their game and what their game really is, is off base.
  But going with your observation yes, you can try keeping your palm up, but also try to keep your thumb to the right. Do not let your thumb go past 1:00.

Jay

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2010, 05:20:36 AM »
quote:
quote:
Hmm < So im at a 90 degree tilt now from rotating my wrist to early correct? Im gonna try it.. What do i have to keep in my mind when Im doing it? Just to keep my palm facing up a little longer before release? I have a feeling Im gonna be hitting alot of gutters and not getting much reaction off the bat here lol


  Try posting a video if you can. It is real hard to give good advice w/o seeing what you are doing with your game. Most people's concept of their game and what their game really is, is off base.
  But going with your observation yes, you can try keeping your palm up, but also try to keep your thumb to the right. Do not let your thumb go past 1:00.


Just to clarify, that's 1:00 if the thumb was extended, right?  Not "in the ball" position.
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Justin

icewall

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2010, 07:07:49 AM »
for me at first it seemed impossible to not rotate my wrist early. but i found that for me in my pushaway I think "lock my wrist in the position i want to finish" and that helps me to not turn early. hook/power does not come from your wrist or hand... it comes from the shoulder which means : you must be balanced at the line, facing your target, in order to transfer the momentum/power from shoulder to elbow to wrist then fingers, which is best accomplished with an effortless free swing.

(I get more revs and ball reaction by trying to NOT put revs or do anything like cupping or turning my wrist!)

baby steps. it sure wont come over night but just remind yourself that it is worth it.

leftyinsnellville

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2010, 07:32:45 AM »
I'm going through the same process right now.  

First, I'd suggest concentrating on keeping your grip very relaxed.  It's my experience that coming up the side of the ball allowed me to get away with gripping the ball a bit.  Staying underneath does not...if I grip it even a little the release will suffer significantly.

Second, focus on keeping your wrist either cocked or straight until just before you release the ball.  Breaking your wrist throughout your swing (or not breaking your wrist at all) kills your revolutions.

Third, get ready to play entirely different lines to the pocket.  I'm still struggling with that one.  I was so used to playing certain lines that my mind just doesn't want to let go of those old habits.  My carry percentage has suffered significantly, but when I do find the proper line my carry is excellent.

Fourth, take all of what I said with a grain of salt because I really don't know what I'm talking about.  These are things that helped me but may not apply to you at all.

TamerBowling

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2010, 08:15:08 AM »
If you're going to make any change to your game, you need to be committed to the change.  It's easy to recommend one hundred and one things to players, but if you're not committed, you will just be frustrated and be annoyed at all those who recommended a change.  
I think it is worth the change, if you can commit.  It's also worth seeing yourself on video to understand and visualize what is wrong.  Sometimes it sets a light bulb off.
I always say, it takes only a 1/4 turn of the wrist to create all the leverage needed.  Sometimes envisioning getting your fingers straight out from underneath the ball, without turning your wrist, it might surprise you.  Imagine smacking yourself in the face with your flat palm as you come up on the ball.  A little mental over-correction might have you corrected.

If you get it right, don't be surprised if you need to re-evaluate your equipment and definitely your targeting.
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six pack

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2010, 12:18:50 PM »
staying behind the ball is fairly easy to do but I see so many bowlers with so much side rotation (90*). hold the ball in your stance with the palm facing the ceiling with the weight of the ball resting more between your pointing finger and thumb. try to keep it there throughout your entire swing and upon release follow through with your ring finger a little.work on trying to roll a full roller end over end and make slight adjustments in your release to add some axis rotation.sometimes a 90* rotation is a good thing but most times it's not.remember the most your hand should turn around the side of the ball is about 2". the more you turn the more axis rotation you add and vise versa.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
The harder I try the harder they fall

Miffy1980

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2010, 12:45:06 PM »
throw backup ball.
then throw straight ball with proper follow thru.

then problem solved. at least thats how i solved my chicken wing

six pack

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Re: need help.. being told im coming up the side of the ball
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2010, 03:10:53 PM »
throw backup ball.
then throw straight ball with proper follow thru

it a nutshell yes it's that easy.
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The harder I try the harder they fall
The harder I try the harder they fall