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Author Topic: Need help, not too proud to beg  (Read 1810 times)

HamPster

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Need help, not too proud to beg
« on: May 06, 2005, 12:22:39 AM »
*Warning* Novel sized question.  I need some help though, I'd REALLY appreciate anyone willing to read through this and offer suggestions.  

I used to have a nice clean shot when I started bowling, and as my accuracy improved, I in turn had a lot of confidence (which turned into elitist cockiness for a while), and was doing well wherever I bowled, whatever the condition.  Enter the newest synthetic house in the city.  It's now 6 years old, though I only started bowling there a couple years ago.  Enter also, the beginning of the most frustrating time I've had with sports.  I'm always above average in sports, never good enough to call myself good (though I was there for a while with bowling), but never the last person somebody would pick to have on their team by any stretch.  This is the first time I've actually gotten worse at something though, and that's pretty maddening.  

This house creates what I call "West Ridge Syndrome" (West Ridge Lanes, house name) in bowlers who are able to read all the small things that contribute to their shot.  Here's the deal.  The pattern is short to begin with, 36 feet, but they only oil to 23.  The heads are pretty wet, but the mids are what kills everybody.  Being that balls are now designed to rev up in the mids, that buff area REALLY messes things up.  It's just about bone dry from 6-gutter, and pretty heavily oiled inside.  So, can't play inside, can't play outside.  The backends are flat too, but it's the loss of the ball's energy that I think contributes to most of the bad carry.  You have to bounce it off the wall to get it to move hard enough to hit with any authority, and you have to project it REALLY well to get it to clear the mids in addition to having to throw it VERY cleanly.  

Can't throw pearl stuff, because it's too touchy.  Best luck is with polished solids, but they're often times too flat, and even polished particle is just way too much ball.  Combine all that with the fact that EVERYONE plays the same track area because everyone has to.  The fluffers all go straight down 8, same breakpoint (obviously, lol).  The strokers are similar, but they have to give it a little room, so they're around 12 or 13 at the arrows to guess where?  Yep, 8 at the breakpoint.  Crankers?  All over the place at the arrows, BUT what?  Yes, 8 at the breakpoint.  

Stuff hook/sets at this house, rarely will you find something that will turn over and move.  Again, I'm guessing it's due to the ball's energy loss which is in turn due to picking up friction at 30 feet.  10 pins are VERY common at this house.  I prefer to play a tighter line, such as 20-13, but can't.  I used to project really well, and had about a 45-50 degree angle of rotation, and that doesn't work well here.  The ball burns, burns, and burns some more and has nothing left when it gets to the pins, especially because of where I have to play for my "A" game.  I don't get mixers very often, I hit the pocket, so it's either strike or flat leave.  

Remedy?  Come around the ball more.  The problem with that is that it really wants to move earlier.  So you have to keep it in the oil until it gets to 8 at 40 feet, but you also have to get it to start revving a little before it gets there so it actually turns over and hits hard, otherwise it's going to come in too late.  Remedy?  A little axis tilt, works pretty well, until the track starts burning, which doesn't take too long.  Then enters West Ridge Syndrome.  It's the unfortunate result that all these fairly major adjustments can have on someone who's not used to throwing anywhere near like that.  If you don't hit up on it, it'll hit flat, so you try to hit it more.  Inevitably, that slows your speed.  The ball jumps.  Next time, you dump it, and the results aren't pretty.  Come more up the back of it to get it to go a little further?  Worse, a guaranteed roll out, considering the axis tilt.  Another dump.  Makes projecting very hard, especially when you know that if you get it where it's supposed to theoretically come back, it'll hit flat.  Remedy?  Move your armswing away from your body a little.  Nope, ball jumps again.  By this time, you're NOT throwing the ball cleanly anymore.  It's totally against everything you're used to doing, replaced by gripping it to hit up on it more, and your arm away from your body which creates a tendency to pull the ball.  Remember, the outside is bone dry, get it there too quickly, bye bye.  

This house, combined with my overly-aggressive subconcious control (auto-pilot's a little too smart for itself), has totally ruined my game.  Nothing irritates me more than throwing a good shot and leaving a flat 10.  Anywhere else, the ball would roll up.  It's not the drilling, it's not the ball itself, it's very obviously the pattern at this one house.  Move right, leave a 4, move left, leave a 10, hit the pocket, leave stuff you wouldn't believe.  Michael Haugen Jr. came down to practice a couple years ago between the Wichita and KC stops, and he even commented on the tendency of the lanes to make the ball do something it wasn't supposed to.  He was shooting 230-240 every game, but the 10's and 4's were irritating him a bit.  His advice was to move right and throw harder, which worked for a while, but with my subconcious issues, it's hard to project when the wall of dry is now closer.  

For those that actually read this novel, I need advice.  I'm lost, and I've been lost for years now.  I've practiced so much on these lanes that I know the characteristics of each pair, and can easily line someone else up.  West Ridge Syndrome has affected my boss also, and we have two totally different styles.  He's a control cranker, and I'm just short of a tweener.  We throw the ball about the same speed, but he puts nearly twice as many revs on it as I do, and projects it better.  Now we both have the same problems.  Tilting the wrist, bailing out of the shot, and this forward roll/axis tilt thing, which neither of us used to have.  We both used to have about a 45 degree angle of rotation and no axis tilt.  Help, please.
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Edited on 5/6/2005 8:15 AM

 

Bjaardker

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2005, 09:14:25 AM »
When I've run into really tough lane conditions, I've always found it easiest to "take the lane out of play". The best way i've found to do this is an easy down & in shot with either a dull urethane (my stingray/c) or a pearl urethane (an old school red pearl, not the new pancake core one). Which ball I use depends on the volume of oil there is out there.

Urethanes tend to be much more "pattern blind" and will give you a pretty consistant reaction.

Sure I know it's "cheap" to just use a different ball. But it sounds like you've tried lots of different hand adjustments, maybe a ball change back to the "old school" is worth a try.

HamPster

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2005, 09:24:05 AM »
Yeah, it's hard to convince myself to do that though.  As bad as I bowled last night, guess it can't hurt.  I have a bad tendency to flap my wrist trying to get extra revs too.  I was THINKING about plastic too, I've always done pretty well with it before.  I'll have to see if I can find a urethane ball and give that a shot, that's something I haven't tried before.

I also prefer to go straighter on tough conditions, I just wish I had some oil outside.  Relaxes me quite a bit.  Rather bowl on a sport pattern than this house pattern.  
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.

Edited on 5/6/2005 9:19 AM

Bjaardker

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2005, 09:28:42 AM »
My only qualms with throwing plastic are that carry with one tends to be pretty sketchy, and I've always found it too easy to skid through the breakpoint or not have the hook totally set & still be skidding a little through the pin deck.

If the lanes are dry enough & you have enough hand to get a plastic to work without having to slow the ball down to 10MPH, then that's an option too. It just wouldn't be my first option.

KDawg77

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2005, 09:29:13 AM »
Yep, urethane with a core. Old Faball Hammers, Ebonite Turbos and Nitro, etc...

HamPster

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2005, 09:35:04 AM »
Yeah, I understand that, but I have a really easy time creating early roll, lol.  Actually, Bob Benoit uses a White Dot most of the time, and shoots 720-740 just about every week with it.  He throws slower and revs it more, but he also plays 3rd arrow with it.  The reaction's there, but that's the problem with everything, it's always flat on the backend.  Like I said, I'll give it a shot.  My Super Charge actually reacts AWESOME, it just hooks way too much.  I'm just afraid that if I polish it, that's gonna change the reaction shape.  Rolls back up really well right now, but I'm afraid I'd get the same old hook/set thing with it if I polish it.
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.

mumzie

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2005, 04:10:45 PM »
I would suggest old urethane as well - an old Hammer or something similar.
AND - take the hand out of it. What I've found with my original black hammer is that if I try to use my current "reactive release" it can overpower the ball and kill the hitting power. If I back out of it, I'm generally much happier with the result.
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SprayNpray

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2005, 12:42:14 AM »
Your situation is where I would break out my old Pearl Beast or Blue Hammer and go down an in, adjust speed as necessary.  It seems a low-flaring ball is the key here.
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MSC2471

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2005, 07:56:25 AM »
I have a teammate who starts off the evening playing straight up 5 on this type of condition with his Storm plastic football, then as the rest of the lefties open up the oil in games two and three, he'll move to solid reactive resin balls with polish and swing the lane from 18 out to 2, making sure to loft the ball a little further on the lane and open up his hand so that he doesn't grab at the ball.

It can be a frustrating condition, very speed and release specific.

Matt

charlest

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2005, 08:42:35 AM »
Urethanes are what we often think of when we need the Ultimate in control balls. They are almost a drastic solution to wet/drys but can be very problematic if you actually have zero tilt, which I kind of doubt. I use a modern pearl urethane, the Visionary Blue Slate Gargoyle, when the lanes fairly dry and the insides are wetter (no blend); I have about 20 degrees of tilt and had to add some rotation to my release to get it to react well, for drive.

Your Super Charge, being such a low RG ball, is a form of control, even though it can have a large flare. That being said, you may want to try a resin control ball, with a very low Differential and probably a low RG before "resorting" to a urethane. They may even wind being a one-two combination.

Balls like the Columbia Super-Trooper or Panic, AMF Valor/P Tour, and Titan, Storm Hot Rod Hybrid are possibilities. Their low RG will start then revving decently in the oil; by the time they reach the dry, their low differential AND their milder coverstocks will reduce resin's normal overreaction to dry.

When the lanes dry out some and the oil starts to approach a blend in the 2nd half of the 2nd game and the 3rd game, these resins should still retain a good amount of carry power. The good part is their evenness and their control nature do not require exotic drillings, but you probably want to keep the pin just below or around the bridge area (especially if you're a high tracker). You might also want to increase the sense of control by placing the CG slightly closer to your PAP than the pin is.  
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

HamPster

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2005, 09:51:07 PM »
Thanks all for the suggestions, I REALLY appreciate them.  My boss has mentioned the Hot Rod Hybrid to me before, and I have been considering it.  My X-Factor has been an answer for a while now, I've always seemed to do well with it.  The big problem is that it's been through a lot, and I really need to replace it.  The span on it is currently too short, and I've already reslugged it a lot, changed the pitch in the fingers twice, and if I patch it one more time, it WILL fall apart, lol.  It's also been refitted through 3 other people that owned it at one time or another.  The closest thing I have right now is my Hot Wire, and it's still just a little too strong in the midlane.  I don't want to polish it anymore (it's only at about 1000 grit), because then it won't come up enough.  

My X is comfortable to throw because it has pretty easy length and a smooth backend.  I've thrown a Hit, which is close to urethane, and it's still too strong too early.  The Sonic X was a good choice for a couple people I knew.  I'm a little too concerned about my form too.  All these suggestions have been pretty good, and I'll give most of them a shot.  Does anybody have any tips on calming myself down mentally?  It seems like the more I care, the worse I do.  However, if I actually do get myself calmed down, my concentration slips, and I start forgetting little things, and it causes me to return to old bad habits, which results in pretty bad shots.  I'll have to get some videos together.  Thanks again.
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.

charlest

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2005, 04:44:12 AM »
quote:
   Does anybody have any tips on calming myself down mentally?  It seems like the more I care, the worse I do.  However, if I actually do get myself calmed down, my concentration slips, and I start forgetting little things, and it causes me to return to old bad habits, which results in pretty bad shots.  
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.


A few items of focus that help me are -
- focus totally on your execution and lane adjustments. I mean totally and on nothing else.
- always take a deep breath or better yet, two, as the last thing to do before you push away.
- ignore your opponents COMPLETELY. DO not look at their bowling or their ball hitting the pins or their scores. It's you against the pins, that's all. period.
- do not look at anyone's score inclduing your own. Better, in the 10th frame, if you sit down after a strike and a spare and someone has to tell you to get back up to finish any 10th frame. That means you are concentrating on what you have to do.

Basically thinking about anything whatsoever except you have to do subtracts from what you have to do.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

HamPster

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2005, 08:20:16 AM »
I have noticed about the guiding.  It's hard to throw good shots and look at 10's all day though.  I know good shots shouldn't leave 10's, but they do.  It's the sloppy ones that I bail out of or dump that carry . .  

Thanks charlest, but I should have been more specific.  I meant for just practicing.  I realize you answered that too, but I don't really focus on wins and losses that much.  I figure that if I could shoot 250+ every game that I'm gonna win the majority of them, so I guess I already do what you've suggested to a certain degree.  Also, any time my mechanics are really working, I'm pretty confident.  Last time I shot 300, I told a buddy of mine that I'd finish it off after I had the front 6.  Everything was clicking, my reaction was great, and I was hardly nervous at all.  

Basically what I mean is that I never really pay much attention to anything but my shots to begin with.  I was more wanting to know if you had any tricks for keeping frustration to a minimum and how to get rid of some of that subconcious control.  I can't get myself to do what I want most of the time because my mind is telling me "there's dry out there" or "there's a burn spot around 10 at 35 feet" or "you're running into some carrydown" and instead of ME controlling my adjustments, my mind causes me to overadjust, and I can't seem to keep myself from doing that.  If there's burn at 10, and I want to move just over to 8 or 9, it comes off my hand and crosses 5 or 6, and most of the time I miss my axis tilt, angle of rotation, revs, speed, everything.  I don't know how to get my mind relaxed when I'm practicing so that I can figure out my mechanics.  I wrestle with the condition so much that I don't give myself a chance to learn anything.  I'm not trying to shoot your advice down or anything, I'm just trying to give you a better idea of where I'm at.
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.

charlest

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2005, 10:56:32 AM »
Well, it often comes down to a sense of calmness and confidence. There are easily so many possible adjustments one can make to just 3 or 4 different "environments" that you can easily confuse the "crap" out of yourself. We have all let ourselves do that at times. YOu have to have a set of adjustments fixed and ready in your mind and BELIEVE that the one you pick will work. Otherwise, your mind will lock up trying to find the PERFECT solution which may not exist. Once you allow your mind to lock up (like a computer with not enough memory to sort a file), your body will lose confidence and lock up itself. (I feel like Dr. Dean Hinitz here.)

I think it all boils down to confidence that the solution you pick will work. That comes down to being comfortable with your choice because you've done it before. One way is to use the wrong ball in practice and find the 2 or 3 adjustments out of the possible 12-15 that work for you. Then stick with them so your body and mind are comfortable using them.

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

HamPster

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Re: Need help, not too proud to beg
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2005, 04:06:56 PM »
Ok, that makes sense.  In theory, that's something I like to do.  I'll take my Super out and try to play an area of the lane I shouldn't, such as right through a burn area, or straight up 4, and if I work on it for a while, I'll usually get relaxed enough to where I start ignoring the pins.  I suppose I do try to force it too much.  I'd RATHER play straighter than move deep, but the best line to play these lanes is from a deeper angle.  I guess I try to hard to find an angle I want to play rather than taking what the lane gives me.  I'll see if I can't get out and practice today or tomorrow and see what happens.  Thanks again, I really appreciate it.  Like I said, I'll see if I can't get a video up here soon, somebody might be able to pick out some mechanical flaws that are the root of my problem.
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Hey, I am NOT Michael Jackson.  I like little GIRLS, not little boys . .

Rock on kitty.