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Author Topic: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?  (Read 11505 times)

Coach Bonesaw

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NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« on: October 22, 2012, 09:35:50 AM »
What's the best new-urethane ball on the market? It's hard to decide, especially when given the Karma-thane and New Blue from Hammer.
In the bag:

Roto Grip Magic Gem
Motiv Primal Shock
Hammer Ocean Vibe

 

charlest

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2012, 01:42:55 PM »
Thanks again for taking the time to type all those details.
I appreciate it.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

charlest

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2012, 01:44:50 PM »
I hear that the New Blue Hammer isn't as strong and doesn't possess the carry of the original Blue. I wonder why people say that, considering the New Blue has the awesome Vibe core.
I'm definitely interested in whichever urethane carries best.

While the general shape is the same, the RG and the differential are both changed significantly to better match up with a solid urethane coverstock. I would not consider the Blue Hammer to have  "The" Vibe core.
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djones

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2012, 02:23:25 PM »
Sort of confused by the couple of references in this post indicating that a urethane ball is not permitted to be manufactured in the U.S. I've never heard anything about this. And it's always been my understanding that urethane is the base product for reactive resin balls; they just have more additives in them.

A urethane ball has its use. If one cannot get it to work, there are several reasons:
1. It's not being used on the right condition.
2. It's not being thrown in the right spot on the lane.
3. It's motion, and it's limitations, are not understood by the user.
4. A combination of these.

Personally, I find my urethane (Natural) works best on a fresh wall shot on a higher friction surface. Once the shot opens up, usually resin is the better option.

I don't understand the reasoning in fancy layouts in lower end balls. You have your urethane balls and you have your resin balls with a low diff. (say a Breeze). A simple strong drill (say a 4x4 or 4x5)would seem the most logical approach. Most current urethanes have a week cover/medium diff. core. The Breeze has a moderately strong cover (reactor if I remember right) and a low diff. None are going to hook out of the building.

One other thing, we can't compare today's urethane to the 1980's equipment. The main reason is the length of the oil patterns and the lower friction surfaces. Even today's shortest patterns, around 35', are at least 5' longer than most put down 25 years ago. So comparing a Blue Hammer from 1990 to the current Blue Hammer is apples and oranges.

Dave81644

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2012, 10:21:26 PM »
Sort of confused by the couple of references in this post indicating that a urethane ball is not permitted to be manufactured in the U.S. I've never heard anything about this. And it's always been my understanding that urethane is the base product for reactive resin balls; they just have more additives in them.

A urethane ball has its use. If one cannot get it to work, there are several reasons:
1. It's not being used on the right condition.
2. It's not being thrown in the right spot on the lane.
3. It's motion, and it's limitations, are not understood by the user.
4. A combination of these.

Personally, I find my urethane (Natural) works best on a fresh wall shot on a higher friction surface. Once the shot opens up, usually resin is the better option.

I don't understand the reasoning in fancy layouts in lower end balls. You have your urethane balls and you have your resin balls with a low diff. (say a Breeze). A simple strong drill (say a 4x4 or 4x5)would seem the most logical approach. Most current urethanes have a week cover/medium diff. core. The Breeze has a moderately strong cover (reactor if I remember right) and a low diff. None are going to hook out of the building.

One other thing, we can't compare today's urethane to the 1980's equipment. The main reason is the length of the oil patterns and the lower friction surfaces. Even today's shortest patterns, around 35', are at least 5' longer than most put down 25 years ago. So comparing a Blue Hammer from 1990 to the current Blue Hammer is apples and oranges.

I was fortunate enough to do a factory tour of the EBO facilities in Hopkinsville a few weeks ago
the subject of Urethane came up and I do remember them saying OSHA would not allow the process to produce actual urethane
i dont know if it was the chemicals or the byproduct or worker exposure
other countries have far less worker safety and are able to produce it if they want
something along those lines

LuckyLefty

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2012, 11:04:26 PM »
Regarding the post above stating one is not using the ball right or doesn't have the right surface I thought this video was interesting for surface changes.

Bowler is Jim Pratt a pro and a great no thumber I would say...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B6VCtFJ_PM

Interesting how well the changes in surface worked!

REgards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

scotts33

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2012, 12:13:40 AM »
Quote
Interesting how well the changes in surface worked!

Difference being......."Bowler is Jim Pratt a pro" and how may shots did they edit to get them all to look great?
Scott

gee

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2012, 03:40:37 AM »
I have the US and Blue Hammer in my Bag - I sanded the U2 to 500 Grit and it works very well for me on broken down and even THS through the surface. But you need to refresh the surface very often to keep reaction. The Hammer blue is high gloss polished and I use it mainly for spareshooting and realy dry lanes.
I also had the AMF Hype which was pretty much toooooooo strong for an urethane ball.
I have compared all three balls before changing the surface and for me the U2 was a little bit earlier than Blue Hammer und AMF Hype was longer but more backend.

I never tried Karma but the Desperado was hitting like throwing a pillow against a brickwall...  :o
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mainzer

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2012, 09:32:45 AM »

I never tried Karma but the Desperado was hitting like throwing a pillow against a brickwall...  :o

My Desperados hit as hard as any reactive on market. They kick the ten out easily, they can be used to make small five board swings and the ten is still ripped away easily, messengers are thrown from one side of the deck to the other. Desperado is the hardest hitting urethane ball I have used by far.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 09:34:38 AM by mainzer »
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LuckyLefty

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2012, 09:48:05 AM »
Oh, I didn't view that video as selling did you Scott33?

I saw it as explaining and helping understand how to make the ball work.  When you watched it, and I figured you did watch it right Scott33?  There was another fella with him and neither had good results on that shot until they made some changes to the surface.

Actually after they got done I was sold on the Slingshot!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

scotts33

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #25 on: October 24, 2012, 10:00:43 AM »
I watched it after it came out last year.  Jim Pratt is a great bowler.  The ball is just a ball for those that want that option.   I am not one to ball down to urethane for many reasons.  If I can find some head oil I will always opt for resin of some type.  Urethane appeals to bowlers that have a hard time reading the backend and can't control the backend with their hand/release and their other stats.

I have an NPT Scorcher that does the same I use it on a very very limited basis.



quote author=LuckyLefty link=topic=289840.msg2355018#msg2355018 date=1351090085]
Oh, I didn't view that video as selling did you Scott33?

I saw it as explaining and helping understand how to make the ball work.  When you watched it, and I figured you did watch it right Scott33?  There was another fella with him and neither had good results on that shot until they made some changes to the surface.

Actually after they got done I was sold on the Slingshot!

Regards,

Luckylefty
[/quote]
Scott

charlest

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2012, 10:58:13 AM »

I never tried Karma but the Desperado was hitting like throwing a pillow against a brickwall...  :o

My Desperados hit as hard as any reactive on market. They kick the ten out easily, they can be used to make small five board swings and the ten is still ripped away easily, messengers are thrown from one side of the deck to the other. Desperado is the hardest hitting urethane ball I have used by far.

I'll double that in spades, maybe diamonds!
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

LuckyLefty

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2012, 09:50:42 PM »
I don't know much about them except the videos and some no finger or thumb tossing predrill my son's(now drilled).

It looks very nice for a harsh side to side wet dry or short shot.  After watching the referenced video I wouldn't typically be using on Viper.  My house shot once the prodigy pushes down I wouldn't bother with them either. 

When I watch the Prodigy oil on our synthetics I think of the song "Traveling Man"   That Oil is going somewhere and ...Urethane not needed  Hook eventually is!

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

scotts33

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2012, 11:44:13 PM »
Quote
When I watch the Prodigy oil on our synthetics I think of the song "Traveling Man"   That Oil is going somewhere and ...Urethane not needed  Hook eventually is!

Exactly correct LL!  Righties screw their team by using urethane/poly especially 5 man.  Some are about themselves and others look it at as team sport.   :)
Scott

Dave81644

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2012, 07:18:18 AM »
scotts: you are so correct
I am LH, so the urethane like equipment for me is of my own doing
if i wreck the heads because of it, then its all on me

you do really have to make a choice on what equipment to use as a "team"
but not many "average" league bowlers care about that

we see guys on the old wood lanes house shot use virtual gravities and wonder why it wont hook, then they put surface on it, still wont hook
just destroys the right side beyond belief
absolutely clueless


LuckyLefty

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Re: NEW URETHANE: Which ball is best?
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2012, 07:12:52 AM »
Scott,

I just want to clarify.  I note the statements about Urethane and Poly(Plastic?) destroying the heads?

More so than reactive? 

I have bowled after a high rev lefty throwing plastic and the shot just got longer and longer real quick(about the only time I've had my shot affected by another lefty!).  There was still head oil but a quickly sloppier break point.

BUT, I wonder about urethane?  What does it do to the heads different than a reactive?

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana