Author Topic: No Hook (Read 2572 times)

Motogp69 · « **on:** March 13, 2010, 07:41:51 AM »

I was curious what would cause someone with a ton of revs to lack hook on a sport shot if they bring their speed down?

We have a gentleman I'm working with and I personally can't figure it out. He has a 445 rev rate when playing outside, and 485 when playing inside. Ball Speed is dead on 18 mph on average, but he can lower it if need be. We also measured his PAP to be 4 7/8 over and 1/2 up.

Today we had him on Chameleon extended to 42 feet, and the ball wouldn't turn up at all. Could it be his equipment or his layouts? Everything he has is pretty much stacked leverage.
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Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21

"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn''t meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."

Slick300 · « **Reply #1 on:** March 13, 2010, 03:45:39 PM »

what was he using and what were the surfaces like on the lane and the ball
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Ray Lathrop
Better Bowling Concepts

Motogp69 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 13, 2010, 03:56:13 PM »

Not sure the specific lane surface, but they are newer synthetics in an AMF house. Overall, from my experience bowling on the lanes in this particular center, they aren't overly jumpy in the backends and it's hard to carry.

He was using a Reign of Fire, which like I said previously was drilled stacked leverage, and I believe the surface of the ball was 1000 (but not factory 1000).
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Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21

"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."

Motogp69 · « **Reply #3 on:** March 13, 2010, 04:19:05 PM »

quote:
Chameleon "extended to 42 feet" is no longer Chameleon. I'm guessing that was the problem, you modified a shot to make it different from what it's intended to be and he simply couldn't play the lanes the correct way.

quote:
Today we had him on Chameleon extended to 42 feet

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The Stroke - Founding member of the StormBowler83 Fan Club

Negative. I played the pattern and was able to bump my Hy-Road 15 to 10 at the breakpoint and had no problem. I buffed the surface of the ball which was 2000 with a 1000 pad by hand. The Hy-Road is drilled with the pin above the ring finger with the mb to the right of the thumb.
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Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21

"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."

Joe Jr · « **Reply #4 on:** March 13, 2010, 04:29:16 PM »

Too strong of equipment with too strong drillings could be the problem.
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My Game
Just another hack with too much equipment.

themagician · « **Reply #5 on:** March 13, 2010, 05:04:30 PM »

His ball could have been expending its energy too early and hitting forward roll way to early and have no continuation. This happens a lot with strong equipment, strong layouts and strong surface matchups.
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BowlingChat.net

WSUstroker · « **Reply #6 on:** March 13, 2010, 05:05:03 PM »

quote:
Too strong of equipment with too strong drillings could be the problem.

That was my first impression. Does someone with a rev rate that high need to have all his stuff drilled that strong? I'm middle of the road when it comes to revs and find little use for stuff drilled that strong.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 13, 2010, 05:15:57 PM »

quote:
Too strong of equipment with too strong drillings could be the problem.
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My Game
Just another hack with too much equipment.

+1

You take a high end ball with a high rev rate and go stack leverage with 1000 abralon and you my friend will get early roll, and not much of a backend reaction. The backend will be smooth and mellow. Put that on a long pattern and you get exactly what you are seeing. Just out of curiosity, why is a guy with that rev rate drill all his stuff stacked leverage? I think if that ball was 4 1/2 stacked, you may see more hook on the backend.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Joe Jr · « **Reply #8 on:** March 13, 2010, 05:17:52 PM »

quote:
quote:
Too strong of equipment with too strong drillings could be the problem.

That was my first impression. Does someone with a rev rate that high need to have all his stuff drilled that strong? I'm middle of the road when it comes to revs and find little use for stuff drilled that strong.

Well my rev rate is pretty much the same and my PAP is almost identical, my ball speed is also 18mph area at the pins and 4 1/2" is pretty much as strong as I'll drill something. Any stronger and getting the ball to keep any energy downlane is not gonna happen.
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My Game
Just another hack with too much equipment.

Motogp69 · « **Reply #9 on:** March 13, 2010, 08:28:46 PM »

I don't know bowling equipment all that much, but I know the reputation of the gentleman that drills his equipment. He asked me for help, and I kind of figured that equipment was the problem because he's flaring over the weight hole on his Storm Furious (also stacked leverage) and getting no reaction at all on a sport shot.

So for a guy with his stats what should I suggest for him? He has to get the equipment plugged anyways to move the weight holes so he stops flaring over them, so what will allow him to get the most out of his Reign of Fire in terms of layout and surface for longer heavier patterns?
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Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21

"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."

Joe Jr · « **Reply #10 on:** March 13, 2010, 09:20:45 PM »

If his equipment is flaring over the weight holes then his stuff is almost definitely over-flaring which is why it's not hooking. Most of my stuff is in the 4 1/2" to 5 1/2" range. Feel free to click the link in my profile and look at the pictures for some layout ideas.
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My Game
Just another hack with too much equipment.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 13, 2010, 09:53:42 PM »

You could put the pin above his ring finger/bridge when he needs length and pop on the backend, and put the pin below his bridge/ring finger when he needs the ball to start up a little sooner and more control on the backend. Should not have to swing the cg/mass too far right. Have him drill stuff with 3-4 inch pins so he can get the weight holes down. Make sure the cg is below the center line and drill the fingers deeper if need be to create more thumb weight to ensure the weight hole gets into the P2 or P3 position. If he needs ALOT of transition and backend continuation, drill the cg/mb at a 45-50 degree angle and when he needs more length, drill the cg/mb at a 70 degree angle and if it needs a weight hole, drill it small. Hope this helps.
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If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!

Slick300 · « **Reply #12 on:** March 14, 2010, 04:46:15 PM »

Ditto sounds like over flaring to me also, and the equipment is probably too strong. an important factor that was left out is what is the persons axis of rotation and tilt. You can have alot of revs with not a lot of tilt and the ball will burn up pretty quick. And on the flip side he could have alot of revs and too much tilt which on a heavier longer pattern would result in the ball not reading the lane. For example I have a pap very close to the person described and I have 21 degrees of tilt. My friend is slightly longer pap and he has 10 degrees of tilt. This factor is often overlooked in ball layout and becomes more important on sport shots and extremes.
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Ray Lathrop
Better Bowling Concepts

Motogp69 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 15, 2010, 09:30:27 AM »

Even if his stuff is to strong, he would see a decent amount of hook on a house shot though do to the pattern? I wanted to see if it was pattern specific, and when he moved to a house shot his ball hooked (not as much as it should), but it still hooked a decent amount.
--------------------
Videos at:
http://youtube.com/user/Gsnap21

"The framers of our Constitution believed that if the people were to be sovereign and belong to different religions at the same time then our official religion would have to be no religion at all. It was a bold experiment then as it is now. It wasn't meant to make us comfortable, it was meant to make us free."

Locke · « **Reply #14 on:** March 15, 2010, 10:27:29 AM »

Yeah, a house shot is going to allow his equipment to hook more. With a surface like that drilled like that, the ball needs to be out of the oil probably no later than 39 ft for him to have anything but forward roll left on it. If he is going to plug and redrill his stuff he should look at putting the pin over the bridge about 1 inch up.
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They call me the thread killer...

Always be sincere, even when you don't mean it

The Cell Pimp

Author Topic: No Hook (Read 2572 times)

Motogp69

No Hook

Slick300

Re: No Hook

Motogp69

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Motogp69

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Joe Jr

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themagician

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WSUstroker

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TWOHAND834

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Joe Jr

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Motogp69

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Joe Jr

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TWOHAND834

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Slick300

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Motogp69

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Locke

Re: No Hook