Post by: anorexicwonder on April 06, 2012, 02:38:38 PM
Ok, this thread is a continuation of one I started on the forums at the PBA's website. The problem is, I was recently informed that I will not be allowed to use my AMF Angles in an upcoming summer league.
The Angles were made in the mid-late 80's, and therefore pre-dates the approved ball list. Now, the USBC grandfathers in all balls that were approved before 1991, BUT gives the league & tournament officials the right to dis-allow such a ball from being used for no particular reason.
I do not understand this at all. In other leagues I see many old but popular balls being used and no one seems to care. But for some reason, I've been harrassed twice within the past year about it. I'm at the point where I don't even want to bowl a sanctioned league anymore.
OLD BALLS NOT ON THE APPROVED LIST BUT ARE STILL BEING USED QUITE OFTEN:
AMF - Gold Angle, Blue Angle, Angle LD, Ultra Angle, Grey Angle
Brunswick - Crown Jewel, LT 48 (original)
Faball - Blue Pearl Hammer, Red Pearl Hammer, Blue Urethane Nail
Will someone please tell me why the USBC has basically given dipsmack officials the right to play "God" when old equipment is concerned? As it stands, they have given the officials the right to allow my opponent to use a Crown Jewel as a spare ball, but NOT allow me to use my Angle!?!
Post by: Russell on April 06, 2012, 02:48:25 PM
Well we all know that the LT-48 is the reason that scoring is out of control right now. Pretty sure most of the 900 series were shot with one of those balls. Kudos to USBC for really taking a stand against the onslaught of technology and stopping some of these cheater balls from being allowed. I mean I just wish they would make everyone just stick to a 12 ball arsenal of all asymmetrical cores with high RA value covers....the game could get some integrity back.
(dripping with sarcasm)
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 06, 2012, 03:08:33 PM
First I've heard of anything like this. To me it sounds quite unusual. The poster says this is happening in LEAGUES .. I have never seen a ball questioned in league! Can you describe a little bit on how the ball is discovered? Is there a USBC rep reviewing balls before the league starts? Perhaps there is concern that a high score will not be recognized if the ball is used? The league will not allow the ball or the USBC will not recognized scores/games made with the ball?
Post by: trash heap on April 06, 2012, 03:09:41 PM
Wow! They are only about 30 years late with this banning. Maybe they are too embarrassed to lose by someone throwing an old ball.
What a joke.
Post by: Track_Fanatic on April 06, 2012, 03:26:22 PM
Post by: Juggernaut on April 06, 2012, 04:39:19 PM
I would send the USBC an e-mail, explaining very clearly that the balls are being denied simply for their age, and NOT for the condition they are in, and ask for a clarification of the rule about which balls will and will not be allowed in USBC SANCTIONED COMPETITION.
Leaving things like this up to individuals is not acceptable. Individuals can have agendas and be self serving, and as thus, should NOT be given arbitrary powers about what equipment you will be allowed to use.
ALL the Angles were ABC/USBC approved, and as such, should be available for use in ANY USBC sanctioned competition.
Post by: Zanatos1914 on April 06, 2012, 09:35:53 PM
Let me know what other balls we cant use...
I love my Cuda C and it checks up just like all other balls..
2 Fingers That Converted to 5 Fingers
I Am The 3 Fingers Nightmare
Post by: on April 06, 2012, 09:39:13 PM
ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY ABSURD!!!
How can using any one of these be an unfair advantage?
Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Allstar Lanes
Brunswick Regional Staff
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Edited by notclay on 4/6/2012 at 7:40 PM
Post by: Pinbuster on April 06, 2012, 10:13:42 PM
The USBC is saying they ARE legal for sanctioned competition.
But they allow LEAGUE and TOURNAMENT officals the right to ban the balls.
I can't fathom why they would ban them and I have never seen a case where they were.
And agree that I don't understand why the USBC allows approved balls to be banned.
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 06, 2012, 11:31:16 PM
You don't have a profile.....but you just must be too good! Or nobody would care!
2nd of all just like cars, that thing is so old it might be spewing fumes! Over the pollution standards in your state!
Regards,
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: BrianCRX90 on April 07, 2012, 02:21:41 PM
Post by: anorexicwonder on April 07, 2012, 02:35:02 PM
Interesting... very interesting. After discussing the matter with other local bowlers, it would seem the guy who is giving me all the trouble HATES lefties - and would do anything to try to stop one from doing well.
Post by: Juggernaut on April 07, 2012, 02:59:01 PM
HONESTLY,
I would use them anyway, and let the league "official" do his worst. Let it escalate to the point where it HAS to become a USBC issue, and let THEM (USBC) sort it all out.
Let THEM (USBC) either rule in your favor, or give a reason why NOBODY should be allowed to use a ball that THEY (USBC) have/has approved for use.
USBC is a self serving organization, and will not allow itself to look like fools, and SHOULD rule in your favor.
AND, I would let the league "official" know that ANY AND ALL games I was forced to bowl without my APPROVED EQUIPMENT would be subject to official protest on my part.
Force the league "official" to give you an adequate reason as to why your equipment is being "banned", and get it in writing, so you can include a copy of the reason when you send the protest in to the USBC for a ruling.
AND, tell the league official that ANY AND ALL games you are forced to bowl without your APPROVED EQUIPMENT will be subject to protest and you asking for them to ALL be RE-BOWLED AT HIS EXPENSE if the USBC rules in your favor after the fact.
BUT, before I did these things, I would take him aside, explain to him what was going to happen, and tell him this can all be avoided if he simply lets you use your APRROVED EQUIPMENT to begin with.
HE is the one causing the problem, so I would put the problem in HIS lap.
Post by: JohnP on April 07, 2012, 09:43:01 PM
I wonder if the USBC rule allowing leagues to "ban" certain bowling balls was intended to allow for leagues to actually specify what specific balls can be used. I've heard of leagues that only allow a few balls (example: bowlers can only use Slingshot, Cyclone, and plastic balls). -- JohnP
Post by: icefiction on April 07, 2012, 10:04:29 PM
Post by: sevenpin63 on April 07, 2012, 10:56:50 PM
Well I don't think a board is only one person as the OP says.
Or this sounds like a BULLXXXX league that I wouldn't want to be a part of.
DON'T TEMPT THE BOWLING GODS
Post by: Track_Fanatic on April 08, 2012, 01:25:11 AM
As part of my post from earlier, it's your choice to bowl in that league or not. That means, you either abide by the league rules or you don't bowl. Not too difficult to understand that one. Do you really think that posting something like this in any forum is going to prompt that league to change the rules they have adopted? Or if you go back to the league officers and say something like I have posted this is in the PBA forums and posted it in ballreviews.com forums and there are x amount of people who agree with me. They could care less, thats why there are league rules. And I highly doubt that it has to do with you being a lefty. I love it when people throw in the 'lefty' affect. Only difference between right and left handed is there's more right handers than left handers. Which means the shot gets blown up on the right side faster than the left side and more adjustments are needed to be made faster for right handers than left handers.
Post by: Track_Fanatic on April 08, 2012, 01:29:50 AM
USBC would favor whatever is in the league rules that were adopted. The USBC has laid out general rules and gives the league the ability to adopt rules that seem fit for THEIR league. The person who is causing the problem is the person who doesn't want to follow the league rules.
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 08, 2012, 01:41:17 AM
I must have mis-read something somewhere .. I didn't notice where the OP said it was a LEAGUE RULE a reference is made to USBC .. where did you read it was a league rule??
Post by: Track_Fanatic on April 08, 2012, 02:07:10 AM
Joe- The poster states:
'I was recently informed that I will not be allowed to use my AMF Angles in an upcoming summer league.'
and then indicates this in their next paragraph:
'The Angles were made in the mid-late 80's, and therefore pre-dates the approved ball list. Now, the USBC grandfathers in all balls that were approved before 1991, BUT gives the league & tournament officials the right to dis-allow such a ball from being used for no particular reason.'
I was reading this as the poster was advised about the upcoming league they were bowling in that the league officials made a rule in their by-laws to not allow certain types of equipment and wouldn't be able to use any AMF Angles.
Seriously. They are going to make a league rule just because this guy is not liked by someone and that he's left handed? Load of horse pucky to me!
Edited by Track_Fanatic on 4/8/2012 at 0:08 AM
Edited by Track_Fanatic on 4/8/2012 at 0:09 AM
Edited by Track_Fanatic on 4/8/2012 at 0:10 AM
Post by: bullred on April 08, 2012, 02:13:49 AM
I think you're just being a victim of bowler "complaints" . Nothing worse than a urethane or plastic ball to scatter the oil quick. I followed two lady bowlers this week who both use old Blue Hammers. After a game the only safe place was off the gutter, but carry down was still a problem.
Post by: TDC57 on April 08, 2012, 04:51:25 AM
The league is govenred by a bunch of wusses. Why in the world would a urethane ball not be legal? Would they be worried the hitting power would be far superior to reactive resin? What's next, no plastic spare balls?
Post by: LuckyLefty on April 08, 2012, 09:31:54 AM
A storm natural? to the rescue?
REgards,
Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.
James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana
Post by: AlBundy33 on April 08, 2012, 10:46:21 AM
I would have to beg to differ here, myself and some of my teammates used a Vector Two in league practice to build a shot and we had a six-week stretch where we shot 3290+ and the teams we bowled against also shot well.
Like you said, it's probably a small contingent of bowlers that don't know how to actually bowl.
"Pretty women make us buy beer, ugly women make us drink beer"
Post by: Juggernaut on April 08, 2012, 11:01:28 AM
Is their a rule that has been adopted by the league that dis-allows your equipment? IF SO, there is little that can be done.
IF NO SUCH RULE EXISTS, I would get his "reason" in writing, and then let the ruling body (USBC) decide whether his reason was valid or not.
INDIVIDUALS cannot be allowed to arbitrarily make rules governing league competition, because if they are, bowling will quickly devolve into what it was prior to the advent of the ABC, just a bunch of different "regional" games that are quite dissimilar, and the USBC would soon lose what little relevance they have left.
I MAY BE STUPID, but I would make the ruling body do what they are supposed to do, and make them rule over this issue. I would make them give me a valid reason that equipment approved BY THEM over 25 years ago could be dis-allowed in leagues sanctioned BY THEM today.
Post by: Xx 12 X 300 xX on April 08, 2012, 02:07:43 PM
Maybe the league officers do not understand the rules in the rule book. This happens all the time in leagues. Some people think they are the rule book, and spew off rules that are so far fetched from what is said in the book.
It is indeed possible that the league officers think that any ball made before the USBC changed the rules are now no longer able to be used.
I would question this with them, and see what they say. If your AMF Angles are not allowed for play, than no other balls made before the rule date should also not be allowed in your league. Make sure this is the case, and then make sure they enforce this if you choose to bowl.
Did your league vote on this rule? An individual or league officer can not just make up their own rules without having the league vote on this. The league as a whole, must adopt the rule. Make sure you call a meeting if the officers of this league are making up their own rules for the league, without having a vote.
The league members control the league, and the playing issues of the league, NOT the league officers. The league officers are in place to make sure that the league is played under the USBC rules, and any rules that the league as a whole wants put in place. The president or any other higher officer can not create their own rules structure without consent from the league and the proprietor of the bowling center.
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 4/8/2012 at 12:13 PM
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 4/8/2012 at 12:13 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on April 08, 2012, 02:12:56 PM
Track .. I see your point and agree you are reading it correctl! I leaned the other way since most league rules are voted on by the league .. I assumed (bad thing to do) that it was dictated to the OP that he could not use the balls .. not that he overlooked a rule and is now not ready to accept it. Thanks for clearing it up for me!
Post by: dmonroe814 on April 10, 2012, 03:16:00 PM
As an old bowler, I remember a time when checking the hardness of a ball was part of the equipment check for legal balls. As balls get older, they become softer. I knew a left hander that had an old ball, and said it worked fine, so he did not want to buy a new one. He qualifed for a tournament using his old ball and when it was checked with a durometer, it punched out at 64. The minimum hardness for a ball is 72. The ball was thrown out. My only suspicion is that the league is worried about old balls being illegal and they have no way of checking them, so the just ban them. Only my guess.
Old Man Still Learning
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2) Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214 Tweener-Cranker (14.5Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol/Storm Moder Marvel 4000 OOB
300x4 800x3 (High 814x2) Hi Avg 218 Cur Ave 214 Tweener-Cranker (14.5Mph 350Revs)
Heavy: Storm VG Nano 4000AB Pol / C300 World Beater Pol/Storm Moder Marvel 4000 OOB
Med: C300 Outburst Pol / C300 Game Pearl / C300 Wrath Flush Pearl
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl /C300 Blue Dot (Spare)
Light: C300 Scout Reactive / Brunswich Avalanche Pearl /C300 Blue Dot (Spare)