Lol after seeing the debacle of the two dry lane threads, I'm not sure I want to go here, but I wanted to get some thoughts or comments.  We continue to have problems with pin spots at a center I bowl at.  Unlike the dry shot issue, which is the same on every pair, that affects everyone equally, the pin spots are all different from lane to lane.  There are pairs that have chronic problems, and the pins that are most commonly off spot are the 3, 4, and 6.  These are all pretty important pins.  You would think that over the course of the year everybody would take their turn on the rough pairs and that it would be rough for both teams on that pair, and yeah it does work out like that, but keep reading.  However, this league has several league-wide competitions going on.  We have an eliminator, takes the top half of the scores from game 1, and everyone that makes the cut gets 2 bucks, then you take the top half again to the third game, where everyone gets a minimum 4 bucks, but your score the last game determines your payout, to a max of 14 bucks a night.  The league fee is 20, so you can almost pay for your night just by winning the eliminator.  We also have a 2nd game pot.  Take everyone's scores the 2nd game, and low man is out (ties for low man result in both/all players being eliminated).  Continue to do that every week until you have a winner.  1st is 140, 2nd is 70.  We ALSO have random match play, you get randomly matched up with someone else in the league every game, every week, and if you beat the person you're against, you get 30 bonus pins.  Every week you are ranked on total score with bonus pins, and you get paid out at the end of the year according to your rank, and the payout is in the hundreds.  This is why I feel it's important for everything across the league to at least be consistent, whether it's fair, unfair, good, crappy, or otherwise. 

Due to these reasons, I don't feel like complaining about a 3 pin that's so far deep and left that it's almost touching the 5 pin makes me a crybaby.  We had one rack last week that I could see 5 different pins off spot on just from the approach.  Now the people I was bowling with and against were telling me to just bowl and not worry about it.  That is until they started leaving all kinds of junk that was costing them money.  Last year when I complained about it, I didn't make much headway, I pretty well got shut down, so I've kept my mouth shut this year.  But at what point do you just have to take a stand?  Or should you just choose to hit the bricks?  It's also interesting because I'm the city lane certification director, and our pin spots were so bad last week that the lights shouldn't have even been on.  They're cleaning and rebuilding the pin decks throughout the house, so they didn't want to spend a ton of time adjusting pin spots when they're just going to come through and redo everything, BUT pin spots are still off on the ones that have already been repaired, apparently no one made sure the pin spots were on after the repairs like they were supposed to and like I was told they would be. 

Again, instead of being my typical self from the past and blowing up and getting all pissy, I haven't taken any action yet, and all I'm doing is presenting everyone with an explanation of the situation to get some input.  At what point do you "just bowl," and when do you stand up and say it's not right and needs to be fixed?  People fudge on rules all the time because they don't want to be the snitch or people don't want them to be a stickler, but as soon as someone has those problems directly affect them, it's different.  Why have rules or standards if they're not followed?  People will use easy slide on their shoes and argue with people who have a problem with it, but as soon as they're sliding fine one night and have to slide through someone ELSE using easy slide, then it's an issue. 

Objectively speaking, it seems to all average out at the end of the year, but I still don't think it's right.  I don't like my scores and my payout affected or influenced by mechanical problems outside my control.  It's also still early in the year, but I thought I'd get some opinions first before I be my normal self, thanks.

Thanks for the comments.  Yeah, it seems like a really easy situation from the outside.  It's amazing though how people take things as excuses or complaints.  If you say approaches are sticky or pins are off spot, it sounds like excuses for poor bowling.  It happens a lot on here as well, someone gets on to complain about something like this, and the response more often than not is, "well maybe you should just adjust or practice more."  Owners get bombarded with all kinds of complaints, some ridiculous, and some that are actually founded.  Perspective makes all the difference in the world.  It's funny though how in years past, when things have been said to the mechanic about the pin spots, how short and pissy he's been with people, but when he has a bad pin spot cost him money or cause him problems one night, it's fixed the next day. 

You're obviously right, there are specifications to stick to, and if something isn't right, it needs to be fixed.  But being that I'm a bowler and it's affecting me along with others, rather than being simply an unbiased official, no matter how I say it, it can come off as being nitpicky or prompted by being upset at bad scores and blaming it on the pins rather than an objective observation.  I do have to maintain a good relationship with the owners, because again, I'm a bowler, and I work in the pro shop in that center.  We work together quite frequently with people as far as coaching and drilling, so although something needs to be done or fixed, it's a delicate situation whether it should be or not.  Yes, I've been hesitant to say anything, but I appreciate the support and the advice as far as taking action.  I personally hate sensitivity and politics.  The pin spots are off and they need to be fixed, period.  But this also means I can be too abrasive or direct sometimes, though sometimes there's a place or a need for it.  Thanks again, I appreciate the comments.  Things started moving last night, and I'm going to do my best to stay on top of it without ruffling feathers, but at the end of the day, the problems need to be fixed. 

Quote from: Gizmo823 on September 25, 2013, 07:55:33 AM

He spoke with me, said something to one of the center owners, and I sent an email to our association manager.  Apparently several other people have complained to the owners about the spots, so at least the ball got started rolling by someone else.

Amazing how this was the advice that I (and many others) would have given and it worked to solve the problem.  Like in 12XSECH's thread, tape the lanes and things will change if they're wrong.

He is unable to differentiate lanes that are not in compliance with the sport with advice on playing a legal light-volume pattern.

If your pin spots are as specified (I'm sure they are), then that is exactly the same as an illegal pattern.  The conditions aren't according to the book.  As bowlers we're entitled to correct specifications (pin spots, lane pattern, etc) but NOT a preference of lane condition (or amount applied).

BUT.........you and the president pulled the trigger and made something happen.  That was the real advice to 12.

Let us know how it turns out.  I deal with slightly off spot pins on my Thursday league, but if they're 1" off (like the 3 pin you saw).......I mean c'mon........

The pins are off spot........I suppose I don't quite understand the FEAR and reluctance of offending someone by asking for what you are entitled to (because it's not offensive).  I don't understand how that is political when it (the pin issue) is objectively self-evident.

I suppose I'd pose a rhetorical:

Are pins that are on spot, NOT included in my lineage?  It cannot be an incredibly difficult fix for the owners.....

It (pins on spot) really does have a major impact on scores.

Again, I think you can be firm and fair w/o being abrasive.  If someone takes a legitimate concern that is backed up by facts (which we have here), if that person is offended / sensitive, isn't that more of a problem they have with themselves?

I don't think I could let something as MAJOR as this "just go" without standing on principle alone.  On something as far as lane conditions and those variables........ok, I'll adjust and still score, but pin spotting is a (this is for the non-forum members) BIG F'ING DEAL!  Even moreso if there is some cash involved.

Kudos for making something happen!