Author Topic: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long) (Read 8332 times)

EFFEN 10 · « **on:** October 07, 2012, 01:23:12 PM »

My Sunday AM league is a 14 team,3 men per team.We just finished week 5.
Unfortunately,5 of those teams have 2 man rosters and are using a vacant bowler.Our league rules are a vacant bowler score is 150 plus handicap. Handicap is 90% of 220 which is 63 pins for a 213 score every game.639 series.
My team has a full roster and today was the 4th time in five weeks we have bowled a vacant bowler team.Perhaps this is sour grapes on my part,but my team is in last place. Iâ€™ve been in this league for 12 years, and Iâ€™ve NEVER had a team in last place.I spoke with the league president about this situation,stating itâ€™s not fair to the teams with full rosters.As a side note, 3 of the vacant teams are in the top 5 in the standings,while the other 2 are in the middle of the standings.I suggested adjusting the pairings each week and have 4 of the vacant teams bowl each other,with the 5th rotated among the rest of the remaing full roster teams.He didnâ€™t like that.I then suggested having a league meeting to discuss the vacant bowler score because USBC suggests that it be based on the league handicap,but it ultimately is up to the league.No answer from him.I also asked him if the teams were covering the weekly league payment and they are not,so the prize fund is taking a hit. By the way,his team is one of the vacant bowler teams.

charlest · « **Reply #16 on:** October 08, 2012, 09:18:07 PM »

Quote from: dR3w on October 08, 2012, 02:40:59 PM

What should really piss you off is that if a 2 person team wins the league, they get to split first place 2 ways, rather than 3.

That's the point I was trying to make. They don't since they only contributed to 2/3 of what a team should for prize money. So they should get 2/3 of what first place is scheduled to get, with the other 1/3 going back into the pot to be split among the teams that paid their full quota.

jrs813 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 09, 2012, 07:42:36 AM »

i feel if you are in a three person league each team should be paying for three people. no matter how many actually bowl.

t1buck · « **Reply #18 on:** October 09, 2012, 10:38:44 AM »

I hate to say there is not much the Association can do with this. The only real concern would be the prize fund. If they have 2 bowlers they would only get 2/3 of the prize listed for that position. Also I understand your thinking but if you try to force them to merge teams they could quit and that another way we could lose bowlers. Like I said it to late this year but the league needs to think about adopting a different vacancy score for next year. If your league tries to change any rules it takes 100% approval which once you start is extremely hard to get. It needs to be explain an make sure the understand they are only entitle to 2/3 of the prize fund listed for their finish position. Unless they want to pay the for the vacancy share into the prize fund.

trash heap · « **Reply #19 on:** October 09, 2012, 11:30:23 AM »

Just offerring an opinion: I think a handicap score of 202 (18 pins from 220) seems fair for a vacant spot. 200 might be just a little too much.

Long Gone Daddy · « **Reply #20 on:** October 09, 2012, 10:36:12 PM »

Never heard of this. League contracts call for certain lineage to be paid based on a pre determined amount of bowlers. Teams are always required to make up shortages because of this.

To the OP, you have a bigger problem than being in last place. Your league is dying.

Quote from: charlest on October 08, 2012, 08:58:36 AM

Quote from: jrs813 on October 08, 2012, 07:14:27 AM
what about the rule about being two weeks behind on lineage and forfitting points? would this not apply here??

I don't think so. Vacancy means there's no roster entry. You don't pay the lineage fee and the prize fee. This allows the league not to owe the house the fee for those 3 games. When you use a substitute, you owe lineage and prize find fees: the league fees for that position. Substitute means you have a person in that roster position and you are bowling for him/her. Then the team owes. In this case there are only 2 team members in a 3 person league. When those 2 people pay, the team is paid up to date.

charlest · « **Reply #21 on:** October 09, 2012, 11:42:51 PM »

While you may not heard of this, both my current house (2 leagues) and my former house had this situation: if there's a vacancy (vs. an absentee with a substitute) the house does not charge the league for the bowling fees for those 3 games.

I presume the clause is in the league contract, as this was reiterated several times by the league secretaries to me. Last year, he even suggested we do this when one of my teammates died and we had problems finding a new bowler.

Quote from: Long Gone Daddy on October 09, 2012, 10:36:12 PM

Never heard of this. League contracts call for certain lineage to be paid based on a pre determined amount of bowlers. Teams are always required to make up shortages because of this.

To the OP, you have a bigger problem than being in last place. Your league is dying.

Quote from: charlest on October 08, 2012, 08:58:36 AM
Quote from: jrs813 on October 08, 2012, 07:14:27 AM
what about the rule about being two weeks behind on lineage and forfitting points? would this not apply here??

I don't think so. Vacancy means there's no roster entry. You don't pay the lineage fee and the prize fee. This allows the league not to owe the house the fee for those 3 games. When you use a substitute, you owe lineage and prize find fees: the league fees for that position. Substitute means you have a person in that roster position and you are bowling for him/her. Then the team owes. In this case there are only 2 team members in a 3 person league. When those 2 people pay, the team is paid up to date.

MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #22 on:** October 10, 2012, 12:15:36 AM »

Houses have had those open-type league contracts for quite a while, mostly with the youth or seniors leagues where the bowlers attending would vary from week to week. League secretarys would have to figure out what to pay the house each week based on the number of bowlers for that week. Most of the other leagues (mens, womens, mixed) were at a set rate based on a contracted number of X bowlers times Y teams.

Quote from: Long Gone Daddy on October 09, 2012, 10:36:12 PM

Never heard of this. League contracts call for certain lineage to be paid based on a pre determined amount of bowlers. Teams are always required to make up shortages because of this.

To the OP, you have a bigger problem than being in last place. Your league is dying.

Quote from: charlest on October 08, 2012, 08:58:36 AM
Quote from: jrs813 on October 08, 2012, 07:14:27 AM
what about the rule about being two weeks behind on lineage and forfitting points? would this not apply here??

I don't think so. Vacancy means there's no roster entry. You don't pay the lineage fee and the prize fee. This allows the league not to owe the house the fee for those 3 games. When you use a substitute, you owe lineage and prize find fees: the league fees for that position. Substitute means you have a person in that roster position and you are bowling for him/her. Then the team owes. In this case there are only 2 team members in a 3 person league. When those 2 people pay, the team is paid up to date.

Author Topic: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long) (Read 8332 times)

EFFEN 10

Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

charlest

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

jrs813

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

t1buck

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

trash heap

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

Long Gone Daddy

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

charlest

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)

MI 2 AZ

Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)