Author Topic: Once again, how often should the shot change? (Read 1584 times)

Ragnar · « **on:** November 16, 2004, 01:07:51 AM »

Our lane guy has decided this year that the shot will change every 5 or 6 weeks. We're on our third major variation right now. I'm extremely happy with this, though I've certainly shot some bad sets. On the other hand I've also shot some pretty good ones after I've figured out what was going on out there. BUT, and here's my gripe, I seem to be in a minority of almost one. Everyone I've talked to at the bowl, including employees, don't like what is going on. All have expressed pretty much the same thing - put out a "playable" (gimme?) shot and keep it the same all year. BORING!! Also, not good if you want to improve your game. Thankfully Rich is a great driller, and a good mechanic so there's no chance of them forcing him to change (I don't think), but I'd like at least the few higher average guys to appreciate what an opportunity they're getting. Plus, I doubt of many of the 160 and below folks have really noticed that the shot is different.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

Wilbert · « **Reply #1 on:** November 16, 2004, 09:40:13 AM »

I don't think a house should change the shot every 5-6 weeks. I don't agree with the "gimme" shot either. I would like to see a tougher shot, but it should be the same during the year. The shot should require you to throw the ball good to score. If the shot changes every month or so, a team has 5 minutes of shadow practice to find the shot and line up. If you are lucky, you get 3 shots a lane in practice. Thats enough to stretch and line up, but not enough to search for the shot.

DanH78 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 16, 2004, 09:46:27 AM »

Well, my two questions are, does the lane guy tell you the week before that he is changing the shot? Does he let you know the general change that is going to be made? That would matter to me because currently I bowl just one nite a week, and the shot is consistent. The shot is that it hooks a ton. I don't like to carry a lot of stuff, so on Thursdays I bring 2 pearl resins, both with the pin pretty high, and a spare ball. So if the shot changes to 45 feet, 5 to 5 with a fair amount of oil, I'm SOL. But if I heard ahead of time that the shot was going to change from short light to long medium, I wouldn't care because I would know to bring other stuff.
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The clock on the wall says 3 O'Clock...last call...for Alcohol!

seadrive · « **Reply #3 on:** November 16, 2004, 09:54:58 AM »

Rags, you are assuming that high average equates with "want to learn to bowl better." Most of these guys just want to average 220 every year, and take home the lion's share of the money. That's what they're there for.

quote:
Plus, I doubt of many of the 160 and below folks have really noticed that the shot is different.

And therein lies the problem. If the changing shot doesn't hurt the lower-average guys scores, then the high-average guys don't have as much of an advantage over the great unwashed bowling masses.

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seadrive
Cogito ergo bowl

scotts33 · « **Reply #4 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:01:33 AM »

This is the way I see it. Most purists the guys/gals like "most" of us want to see a tougher pattern to bowl on but don't want the unplayable sport type shots 2:1...etc.

Most proprietor want their house to score as high as they can make it. Keep all the house hacks coming back. I am a house hack but still a purist in some form or another.

Most proprietor don't even understand the tricky part of putting down an unlike China THS but playable since they don't understand how the topography of their lanes run. How lane conditioner applied on the topography of their lanes will effect play.

So you have these two issues. One the proprietor that ONLY wants high scoring conditions. The other that the proprietor could not put down a playable but unChina like condition....cuz he isn't technically proficient nor will he/she get any help.

Few thoughts anyway.
Scott

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #5 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:04:09 AM »

Rags, you lucky bass turd.

Wish I could bowl in a league with a shot that changed every once in a while. I'm still not as good as I should be on the one shot they give us, but at least it would break up the monotony and challenge me to learn how to better read the lane and become more verstile.

I've never understood those who want the same shot all the time... how does that prepare you for tournaments or bowling in other houses? I think the last tournament I was in they did not tell me what lane condition was out there, and we only got 2 balls per lane for warm up. In that situation I'd like to have some experience and seen how my equipment reacts on different conditions before I've dropped the $$ for tournament play.

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9~

Keep your balls on the lane and your mind in the gutter!

Ragnar · « **Reply #6 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:11:04 AM »

Bones said,

quote:
I suspect what people are finding when a change in condition is laid down is in the first frames of that first game. They may find they can not stand in their old favorite spot and hit the second arrow and watch the ball head for the pocket. Thus, they complain that the shot was changed, but fail to remember the shot changed last week during the 3 games, but they were happy to start the nite in their usual way.

Dead on. The funny thing is that many, on finding that their first shot went nowhere near the head pin, will continue to throw the same shot all night all the while complaining if the shot doesn't come to them. For 20 years, at the old bowling alley in town, it was a dead second arrow shot. New we have a new bowling alley, with varying shots - where do 80% of the folks insist on playing? Yep, 2d arrow. In their mind if it isn't a second arrow shot it isn't bowling. I think part of what the lane guy is doing is trying to force people off of second arrow - it ain't working.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #7 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:16:23 AM »

quote:
where do 80% of the folks insist on playing? Yep, 2d arrow. In their mind if it isn't a second arrow shot it isn't bowling. I think part of what the lane guy is doing is trying to force people off of second arrow - it ain't working.

I've seen this - actually bowled on a team where a couple of the guys would never move. I particularly remember one night there was a LOT of oil out there - I was having a blast! but my teammates were getting upset about hitting the right side of the 3 pin every shot. Well, I suggested to one of them where he should move, and he looked at me like I slapped his mamma! LOL. He never did move, but the two of them finally managed to dry out a line so they were at least close to their average the last game...
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9~

Keep your balls on the lane and your mind in the gutter!

Pinbuster · « **Reply #8 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:21:31 AM »

The thing is while they might not have a forgiving line to the pocket you can still play second arrow anytime. But they might have to significantly alter their starting position.

This has been a problem in bowling forever. The majority of league bowlers donâ€™t have any clue of lane patterns. Most if left to their own devices will stand on x and throw between the 1st and 2nd arrow every week. If they bowl bad they blame their selves if not they believe the bowled good.

The wanna bees who have a little knowledge and skill and have had their scoring inflated by the easy condition that are consistently put in one area, they are the ones who will complain the loudest.

The real bowlers will adjust.

The only real problem I have with the scenario is not having any prior knowledge and if there is limited time to find the shot. Shoot it takes me 8 to 10 shots to get up to speed anymore let alone find the proper ball and line to the pocket.

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #9 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:33:20 AM »

quote:
The majority of league bowlers donâ€™t have any clue of lane patterns. Most if left to their own devices will stand on x and throw between the 1st and 2nd arrow every week.

I think this is due to the fact that for most league bowlers, this is the only shot they ever see - or learn to play. They are never forced (in most cases) to move because unless the lane machine breaks, the shot never changes more than a board or two one way or the other. If people were taught from the beginning that the lanes are not always the same, and were subjected to different conditions more often, I think they would accept it as part of the game and be happy. At least, that's my opinion.

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9~

Keep your balls on the lane and your mind in the gutter!

davidellisonispcom · « **Reply #10 on:** November 16, 2004, 11:22:29 AM »

I agree with those of you who like a tougher shot. I need that to get better. Unfortunately, some of us are faced with varying lane conditions every week and nobody knows what we will see until you get those 3-4 frames in practice. It is not enough time to make that adjustment. Even on the PBA tour they are provided with lane graphs and some info. Lately I have been making 8-10 board adjustments before we even complete the first game. I know much of this is attributed to my mistakes and the same problems with timing and footwork. If it were just me stuggling I could correct my mistakes a little easier but everyone else had been making the same adjustments. I'm not complaining, if I were a better bowler I would be able to make adjustments.

A good coach and the video is still the best way to make significant improvents.

Ragnar · « **Reply #11 on:** November 16, 2004, 11:27:37 AM »

As to knowing what the upcoming shot will be, there are a few of us who talk with the lane guy and he's more than willing to tell us exactly what it will be, even where to play. I've been going to suggest (but keep forgetting) that he post a graph, or (since some of the shots probably don't have downloadable graphs) at least a rough description of the shot. Interesting that the last shot turned out to be a tweak of PBA "E". I didn't recognize it from his description of it - duh.
"wetter in the middle, dry on the edge, best played up the twig." or something like that.
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"A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal." Oscar Wilde
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

pin-chaser · « **Reply #12 on:** November 16, 2004, 03:08:06 PM »

Personally, I am all in favor of chaning conditions but tell bowlers it is going to happen and tell them when inadvance. Several houses change conditions without notifying the bowlers. Like the better bolwers wont notice??? You walk into the house for 8 weeks and you have all your equipement tuned into the condition and BAM!!! the shot is completely different. The 4 balls you decided to bring are the wrong ones and the right ones are home. If only I had known. Then next week you bring the right ones and you tune them and again it happens. From hooking off the lane and starting inside 20 to play 10 to 5.

I have always felt the reason bowling centers do this is to increase proshop and alcohol sales.

But I pay to compete. Changing the condition changes the faces of the favorite bowlers of the day. You buy equipement and tune equipement to be in that top list of the favorites. When they change the condition they intentionally change your changes and give others a better chance. I dont pay my money to have others have controll over me. Unless otherwise stated... I want it the same everyweek...if not I want a reduction in my lineage fee.
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MSC2471 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 16, 2004, 11:06:48 PM »

I bowl in two different houses that have two completely different shots. House A sometimes tweaks the shot at certain times of the month (especially if they know there is going to be more open play before leagues, say due to school vacations/holidays) and I know that it's important to throw a warm up game or two before league to see if I can play the same line with the same ball as the previous week or have to change lines, ball speed, or even balls...

House B keeps the same shot from week to week but this week the owner decided to lengthen the pattern and not tell anyone about it until after the league finished. The scores were significantly higher for the high average bowlers, provided they kept a slower, more consistent ball speed and were willing to move inside a little bit. The bowlers who were used to playing the lanes the same way as previous weeks saw their scores go down 20 pins a game at least, sometimes more.

I enjoy bowling in each house as I know I have to play different lines, different hand releases and with different equipment. Sometimes the lanes play well enough that I can stick with the same ball all 3 games- other times I've had to make 3 ball changes in a night depending on the number of bowlers playing a similar line. I feel that helps me when it comes to tournament time because of the versatility and to play the lanes based on what is out there, not what I would like to have out there.

In house A 65% of the bowlers would notice changes in a shot for that Monday league, in house B about 5% would notice a change in the shot...

Matt

revsalot · « **Reply #14 on:** November 17, 2004, 10:27:56 AM »

I dont think the shot should change that much during a year unless ur in a sport league or your in a travle league designed for that. Just put out 50 feet of flat oil with the gold pins and see who can score well.

Author Topic: Once again, how often should the shot change? (Read 1584 times)

Ragnar

Once again, how often should the shot change?

Wilbert

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

DanH78

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

seadrive

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

scotts33

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

9andaWiggle

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

Ragnar

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

9andaWiggle

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

Pinbuster

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

9andaWiggle

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

davidellisonispcom

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

Ragnar

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

pin-chaser

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

MSC2471

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?

revsalot

Re: Once again, how often should the shot change?