Author Topic: Online vendor advocates cheating!! (Read 2520 times)

Nollster · « **on:** November 04, 2004, 10:10:34 PM »

At least in my mind. I received the following in an e-mail from a vendor under the heading "Strategic Bowling". I call it cheating!! It's a technique we all know about, but I would never knowingly do it with the expressed intent of destroying my opponents shot. If you can't beat someone fairly (and right now I can't beat anyone!!), just suck it up and congratulate them on a job well done!!

Important to note that the vendor isn't one of BallReviews.com sponsor's nor is it a ball manufacturer...

Strategic Bowling

Have you ever been completely lost while your opponent is lined up? A form of defense does exist in bowling. This defense is starting to become more widely used on the pro tour. This is how it works. First you have to watch your opponent line up during practice. As long as you are not going to play the same area on the lane, take a heavily sanded ball with a low track flare and throw it right down where your opponent will be playing. What this does is it basically annihilates your opponents shot.

This strategy can be seen in many bowling centers and even on the tour. In the Tournament of Champions Chris Barnes' opponents left the practice session a little early to sit back and watch him line up. They came back shortly after in time to completely destroyed the right side of the lane where Barnes was going to be playing. Not to mention this pair was to be nationally televised much to Barnes' despair. In the end when Barnes got up to bowl Healy he was lost and Healy eliminated him 210-192. Several pros on tour claim that they would only use this strategy to build their own shot, never to destroy an opponent's shot.

On the other side of this strategy you can use it as an offensive method, which is actually referred to as "building a shot." If the lane conditions are oily you will want to take a heavily sanded ball with low flare and point it straight down the lane about 2 boards outside of your line. For instance, if your break point is going to be the 8 board, you will throw the ball straight down the 6 and 7 boards. What this will accomplish is it will give you a bounce and create larger area on the lane for you to work with. If the lane conditions are a little light on oil what you will need to do is take a plastic ball and throw it straight down the lane 2 boards inside of your intended line. For example with heavy oil if you are intending on playing the 8 board you will need to throw your plastic ball down the 9 and 10 boards. This will create hold and give you more area of your intended line.

This strategy might be fun to try sometime or play as a team with a "team shot," but remember to enjoy yourself and play hard.

smash9 · « **Reply #1 on:** November 05, 2004, 06:21:27 AM »

Nollster --- Thanks for the post -- interestng concept but I'm with you. If I can't get lined up and someone beats me, then I take my hat off to him/her. Hopefully I can turn the tables the next time I bowl him/her.
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So you like this guy?

Yeah, he treats me sweet -- I met him at a bowling alley. (Matchstick Men)

scotts33 · « **Reply #2 on:** November 05, 2004, 06:43:01 AM »

This type of tactic as far as trying to destroy your opponents line only works in match play. How many of you bowl much match play? Very few...I'd guess unless you bowl tournaments. League shots are hard to foul up cuz we all foul them up anyway. It's called blowing a hole in the pattern.

As far as it working for leagues on a THS....what are you going to destroy? The wall? It's also a right/lefty thing.

Nollster--I assume you are newer to bowling. If you get to ABC Natl's at some point...be on the look for some great teams that build a shot together as they work the lane condition to their advantage. You'll see great 5 man teams rolling the same trajectory as they burn off the head oil together and move deep into the lane as they dry an area right of their intended trajectory to give them a bit of swing and as the set progresses...they work off of each other. It's a great tactic and a way to play together and score big.

Scott

Nollster · « **Reply #3 on:** November 05, 2004, 06:53:28 AM »

quote:
Nollster--I assume you are newer to bowling. If you get to ABC Natl's at some point...be on the look for some great teams that build a shot together as they work the lane condition to their advantage. You'll see great 5 man teams rolling the same trajectory as they burn off the head oil together and move deep into the lane as they dry an area right of their intended trajectory to give them a bit of swing and as the set progresses...they work off of each other. It's a great tactic and a way to play together and score big.

Scott -

I'm newer to bowling but not to competition. In the highlighted area, an example is given of purposeful intent to mess with lane conditions to negatively affect a fellow competitor -- in my mind that's cheating. It may apply more/strictly to match play, but it's still cheating. In golf, it would be equivalent to spiking up the line of your opponents putt. If your opponent's line gets mangled during the course of match/league play, that's part of the game. But when you add intent, you cheat!

Ishmael · « **Reply #4 on:** November 05, 2004, 07:00:12 AM »

quote:
But when you add intent, you cheat!

It's only cheating if it's against the rules. While I agree that it may be slightly unethical, it certainly is not cheating.

guzmand19 · « **Reply #5 on:** November 05, 2004, 07:41:21 AM »

I've seen this done on TV, they showed Dave Traber doing the same thing when he made that last telecast before the final Tourney of Champs. He takes out a super duper sand blasted rock, and fires it to blow up shots. They also showed how Traber also will throw a plastic to generate carrydown for himself.

I have only done this once, and never for a bowler who was locked on. I was giving a guy a few pointers on how you move inside when the lanes start playing dry, and he just mentioned that since his current shot was working he would go with it. I pulled out my soaker and threw right over his line a few times, until his shot stopped working. Then proceeded to show him how to identify what had happened and the proper adjustments to move inside. I wouldn't do it in the spirit of competition, well, maybe if the guy really had it coming lol
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D <~~~~ Used to be terrible wiffing 10 pins. Now through much practice, can wiff any single pin spare at any time.

Darrell Guzman
guzmand19 - Yahoo IM and MSN screen names

Waldorf Salad · « **Reply #6 on:** November 05, 2004, 08:02:40 AM »

Normally, I wouldn't consider one bowler trying to "ruin" his opponent's line cheating or even unethical. All bowlers get the same amount of practice time before the tournament and get to use them however they want. The bowler needs to read different parts of the lane, see how different balls react, determine what line to use and with what ball and what release, practice some spares... Any bowler using this time to mainly "ruin" his opponents shot isn't spending them increasing his chance to bowl at one's best. It's just a strategy.

Having said that... The PBA does have rules against coaching and members giving other members tips/advice. So this would be flat out illegal on the PBA if a group of members teamed up against another (lets say... Chris Barnes). Or it would also be totally illegal for one ball company to team up and have thier staffers create shots for themselves or ruin other bowler's shots.

scotts33 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 05, 2004, 08:16:08 AM »

Nollster--I guess, you didn't get my paragraph about teams working together at building a line. This is to benefit all 5 players NOT to destroy anyone's chance at scoring well.

As far as destroying a pattern or blowing a hole in a pattern. It's not cheating and well within any ABC/WIBC/PBA rules. Us older players call these kinds of bowlers shim wreckers. They wreck the shim as most players can adjust with equipment and technique to play all parts of the lane. It would be akin to what golf used to allow ..... remember the "stymie" Nollster? Why did golf do away with that? It was used mainly in match play not stroke play.

Scott

Nollster · « **Reply #8 on:** November 05, 2004, 08:26:06 AM »

quote:
This tactic presumes the opponent only knows how to play one line. If the bowler is versatile and can play most all parts of the lane, what value is there in trying to mess up one line?

Dont most of us have to adjust in reg league play? Whats the difference whether its one on one or a 5 man league?
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Bones

Agreed, but the person who's line was tampered with would spend how many frames trying to adjust to an unfairly altered condition -- and how much damage could be done in those frames considering the potentially nasty leaves they could have?!?!? In league or through the course of a match, we know we have to change; but, if you've just finished practicing and all of a sudden the shot is completely different, how do you make up the lost shots until you figure it out? Especially if your opponent is snickering as he strikes away!!

tenpinspro · « **Reply #9 on:** November 05, 2004, 09:02:14 AM »

Hey Nollster,

I see 2 things happening here. I saw them show Doug Kent throwing plastic up 4th arrow one time to help create hold during practice and we have Traber burning up 5 board to help him create more friction to his line. These 2 examples are of players trying to create their shot vs if Traber were to jump onto Barnes line and destroy his shot. If a player intentionally tried to destroy his opponent's shot, then I see your point and I would also see it as unethical.

Agreed, this tends to work mainly for match play but not league play. Too many players and variables involved in that and would assume that all bowlers are still trying to score during league unless they're willing to throw away a game and hope their shot and only their shot will hold up. I haven't seen that happen in a while. Just my thoughts...

Rick

Nollster · « **Reply #10 on:** November 05, 2004, 09:14:08 AM »

quote:
If a player intentionally tried to destroy his opponent's shot, then I see your point and I would also see it as unethical.

That's all I'm trying to get at....Seemed odd this would be offered as part of a "bowling tip"....

scotts33 · « **Reply #11 on:** November 05, 2004, 09:43:52 AM »

It really doesn't come into play during league all that much and THS being what they are...house china..........well nuff said.

In match play it can come into play but only if you get a large enough amount of time to effect a given lane condition. How many of you are allowed say more than 2-4 shots per lane during match play or say 5-10 mins at most? My point is in the PBA before a show they are I think allowed an hour to pratcice on the pair.....now that is enough time to effect a lane pattern. But. it's still not cheating in my book. PBA caliber players are good enough to figure out how to play the lanes.

Scott

DanH78 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 05, 2004, 10:14:33 AM »

Noll, we had this discussion around the time of ABC. I'm with you where I find it unethical. What I find amusing is that I see people talk about how they need to make shots tougher, more demanding, etc and these same people will then advocate blowing a hole in a shot to make it easier and allow them more room for error. Is this practice illegal? No, therefore it's not cheating. But in my mind I find it unethical, especially to purposely destroy your opponents favored line.

Statements have been made that good players can adjust. Well, getting to the pocket is one thing, carrying is another. Not all lines carry equally on all shots. There is a reason why Norm Duke (just using him as an example) will play one shot inside 4th arrow, and a different shot up the twig. He can get to the pocket from anywhere, but he won't carry from anywhere.
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The clock on the wall says 3 O'Clock...last call...for Alcohol!

Ragnar · « **Reply #13 on:** November 05, 2004, 10:15:48 AM »

Up here in the PNW there is a well known story about how one well known PBA member did this to another member, solely to screw up the guy, not to build his own shot. Don't think it doesn't happen.
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"Things fall apart; the center cannot hold; mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,"
Ragnar sure likes to throw his purdy Uranium Buzzsaw.

DanH78 · « **Reply #14 on:** November 05, 2004, 10:18:13 AM »

Rags, I don't think the question is whether or not it happens. I think everyone agrees that it does. The question I'm seeing is does that fact that "everybody does it" make it ethical.
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The clock on the wall says 3 O'Clock...last call...for Alcohol!

Author Topic: Online vendor advocates cheating!! (Read 2520 times)

Nollster

Online vendor advocates cheating!!

smash9

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

scotts33

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

Nollster

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

Ishmael

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

guzmand19

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

Waldorf Salad

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

scotts33

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

Nollster

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

tenpinspro

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

Nollster

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

scotts33

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

DanH78

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

Ragnar

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!

DanH78

Re: Online vendor advocates cheating!!