Author Topic: Opinions on Ball Fit? (Read 7861 times)

Jay · « **on:** June 02, 2008, 07:00:35 PM »

I'm personally having trouble with my ball fit, but I'm working with my driller to make it fit correctly.

Anyways, I posted a whole explanation of what's been going on on another message board so I won't get into that here. What I want to know is what you guys believe the proper fit should feel like. Here's some questions I'd like answered:

1) How much and how exactly should you grip the ball during the swing?
2) If you believe in the span test, where should the edge of your hole/grip meet your fingers when you lay them over the holes?
3) How much bevel is necessary?
4) Do most people have to use tape of any kind for grip or release purposes?
5) Mow much of your hand should be in contact with the ball when you put your fingers in?
6) If someone's span is correct, is forward or reverse pitch more popular in the thumb?

I'm trying to get as much information as I can because I'm working with my span and pitches so I don't have to "squeeze". I would guess I've been squeezing since I've started bowling 8 years ago but only because I had to in order to not dropp the ball. Now, I'm ready to stop because I feel I'm at a point where I can't improve my physical game or be very versatile because of the squeezing.

If you guys have any specific questions that would help you in determining what might be my problem, feel free to ask. As you might guess, I'm pretty irritated with the problem since it's been quite a hassle trying to figure it out.

the pooh · « **Reply #1 on:** June 03, 2008, 09:29:21 AM »

Without having your hand in front of me to fit,these are generalizations:
1)You should not have to grip the ball more than would hurt a small bird,like a canary.The ball should fit comfortably and snugly enough that you really don't have to think about WHEN to grip it!
2)The gripping edge of the finger holes should fall to a point almost exactly midway between the creases of your fingers.This,in my experience with thousands of bowlers,will not vary much from this.IF it varies at all,it should fall maybe 1/16 to 1/8 inch to the short side.This is with the thumb inserted all the way and the fingers strtched MILDLY over the holes.
3)Assuming your using inserts,none in the fingers.The bevel on the thumb is individual preference.That being said,you should use as little bevel as needed so as to not put pressure on a nerve.This edge allows you to grip the ball without sqeezing.
4)ALL bowlers should tape the thumb hole.This is the most critical part of the release.Thumbs swell and shrink much more than most people realize.If I fit you correctly today,your thumb WILL be a different size tommorrow.The only way to have a good release all of the time,is to oversize the hole slightly and add tape.This way,you can add or subtract tape to have a perfect fit all of the time.I always ask bowlers:"Do you want your ball to fit perfectly some of the time or all of the time?"Another critical issue with the thumb,is the oval.If your thumb is oval,you do not want a round hole!!
5)Drilled to the above standards,there will not be a strong contact of your hand to the ball.Oh,there will be contact,but nothing you should think about.One thing for sure,the hand does NOT lay flat on the ball as many people mistakenly think it should!Also the ball should sit on the ball of the index finger,not in the palm.
6) This depends on your flexibility and thumb length,therfore cnnot be answered on the internet!Most likely,if everything above has been done correctly,you will not have large ammounts of reverse.
7)Pitches of the fingers also depend on YOUR hand!
Hope this helps and pm me if you have any more questions.

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the pooh

dicnic · « **Reply #2 on:** June 03, 2008, 09:36:29 AM »

You should be able to have the ball simply hang on your completely relaxed hand. The crease of you first finger joint should be in the middle of the hole with your thumb all the way in the ball. With your hand in the ball properly, you should have only a slight amount of space between your palm and the ball when you force your hand up.

Folks use tape to adjust the thumb hole as the thumb swells or shrinks due to weather, bowling or whatever. Some bowlers never have to do that. Personally, I use Ron C's Magic Carpet in all of my thumb holes so I never have a thumb fit problem.

Bevel depends upon how much "hurt" a non-beveled hole imparts. Some bowlers like the feel of a sharp edge, especially in the fingers. Some prefer the soft grips.

Pitch usually depends upon your hand, your release and experimentation.

Good Luck.
--------------------
Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #3 on:** June 03, 2008, 09:54:26 AM »

quote:
3)Assuming your using inserts,none in the fingers.

Actually, shouldn't you bevel the finger holes slightly even then, to help prevent possible cracking?

the pooh · « **Reply #4 on:** June 03, 2008, 10:01:27 AM »

As to beveling inserts with correct span and pitch,no bevel should ever be needed.It is at that point when they start to get rounbed that most people are looking to replace them.Most like the tight feel with an edge.This also helps to fight squeezing.

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the pooh

JohnP · « **Reply #5 on:** June 03, 2008, 10:29:26 AM »

The insert itself should not be beveled, but the hole it goes into should have a little bevel to help avoid cracking. To check spans, grip the ball and let it hang by your side. Insert a standard pencil between the palm and the ball. It should take a little force to slide the pencil in. The pull on each finger should be the same (I do agree that for a starting point the leading edge of the finger holes should fall half way between the joint creases). Forward/reverse finger pitch depends on joint flexibility. Lateral finger pitches must be chosen to avoid the holes coming together at the bottom and provide comfort. MF - 3/8 L and RF - 3/8 R is a very common choice. Thumb pitches depend on the thumb hinge and flexibility. Nothing can replace the experience of reading several thousand hands and seeing the results. -- JohnP

Jay · « **Reply #6 on:** June 03, 2008, 06:13:32 PM »

Thanks for all the replies guys. Now that I have the general information, I can tell you some specific things about my fit.

1) When I swing the ball, I have to grip it one way or another. Since I've been doing it for so long I don't even think about it because it's human nature. If I did not have to grip, would my body know it or would I have to focus on not gripping until I get used to it?
2) My driller took a used ball and punched it up with a shorter span, and at this point there's 1/8 forward. When doing the span test, the edge of the finger holes meet my fingers at about 1/4 past the first crease so you all would agree it's still too long? When I hold the ball there's no room for a pencilbetween my palm and the ball.
3) My normal span was 4 3/8. But with the test ball, it's the same on the MF but the RF is 4 1/8 because it's dropped. Based on what I'm told by various people, I should probably be around 4 1/16 MF and 3 13/16 RF.
4) With that test ball being that span and pitch, I have to grip at least with the pad or base of my thumb but I don't need to bend the knuckle. I wish I sould eliminate that because then I don't think less bevel would bother my thumb so much.
5) For reference purposes, my finger pitches are MF 1/8 forward and 3/8 lateral, RF 1/8 reverse and 3/8 lateral. Never had issues with them.
6) I currently use white grip tape in my thumb holes for better grip, but usually when I appear to be swelling(almost always before I bowl) I just use easy slide because as I bowl the hole seems to loosesn up anyways. I've tried black tape in the back of the thumb hole but didn't like it because the top of it(round side) was irritating the back of my thumb between the knuckle and the joint. Had I bowled enough, it would have tore some skin. I've had that happen before with white tape and even no tape back there(needed more sanding in that area). So it seems my thumb doesn't like anything in the back of the hole.

If it's not too much trouble, could some of you with proper fitting balls that you don't have to squeeze post a couple pics for me? I want to see a pic of your hand in the ball, a pic of you doing the span test, and a pic of just the ball showing the holes(to see how they're beveled). These pics would show me what a proper fitting ball is supposed to look like.

Again thanks for the replies. I value them all so keep them coming especially with ways to remedy my problem.

Edited on 6/3/2008 6:46 PM

Strike300 · « **Reply #7 on:** June 03, 2008, 11:20:01 PM »

A proper thumb should be where you have to use minimal grip pressure. They say like holding a baby bird in your hand. You don't wanna squueze it. Keep your fingernail up against the back of the thumbhole throughout the swing. If you wanna drop the ball start with bowlers tape. If your thumb is snug and you still wanna drop the ball you may need to adjust your span or pitches. As for the finger holes. With your thumb in the ball lay your hand across the finger holes. The first crease of your index and middle fingers should be halfway to the hole. Get a good coach if you can afford it.

Atochabsh · « **Reply #8 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:04:59 AM »

quote:
I don't even think about it because it's human nature.

Its only "human nature" because you probably were not shown how to roll a bowling ball early enough in your career.

quote:
With that test ball being that span and pitch, I have to grip at least with the pad or base of my thumb but I don't need to bend the knuckle.

That's fine in my book as long as its equal pressure with your fingers.

Try being female and having to deal with monthly swelling issues that weather and diet have nothing to deal with. For some people dealing with ongoing swelling or shrinkage is personal and you have to deal with it from individual to individual.

Erin

Jay · « **Reply #9 on:** June 04, 2008, 01:27:13 AM »

Hey Erin. In case you didn't guess, it's Amateur from Bowling Community.

I actually wasn't taught to throw a bowling ball except by my dad. And I can't remember as far back as when I started bowling so I can remember if I truly had to squeeze. But as long as i've thrown fingertip I know I've squeezed.

If my span is right, gripping with the pad or base of my thumb shouldn't bug me, I assume. It felt too weird and possibly too much pressure on my thumb. Plus, if you grip with the base, less bevel tends to irritate that area, which was happening with me. Me and my driller are going to try an even shorter span because I think that one was still too long.

I have enough swelling problems without being female in my opinion. They say your thumb is always a different size today than it was yesterday. Me, I normally just can't get my thumb in the hole very easily/at all when I start bowling. So I use easy slide so I can get in the hole okay and after a while it seems to loosen up to what seems should be actual size. That's weird to me but whatever. Does that mean I shrink as I bowl?

renoatpikeville · « **Reply #10 on:** June 04, 2008, 02:46:18 AM »

quote:
quote:
3)Assuming your using inserts,none in the fingers.
Actually, shouldn't you bevel the finger holes slightly even then, to help prevent possible cracking?

Agree. Not beveling finger holes before inserts may void any manufacturers warranties.

JohnP · « **Reply #11 on:** June 04, 2008, 11:03:28 AM »

quote:
2) My driller took a used ball and punched it up with a shorter span, and at this point there's 1/8 forward. When doing the span test, the edge of the finger holes meet my fingers at about 1/4 past the first crease so you all would agree it's still too long? When I hold the ball there's no room for a pencil between my palm and the ball.

With a span this stretched you're going to damage your finger joints. Perhaps not today, but over time they will start hurting. Also, I tried a stretched span one time (but not as stretched as you're describing), years ago, and I couldn't get nearly as many revs on the ball as with a relaxed span. -- JohnP

Jay · « **Reply #12 on:** June 04, 2008, 04:09:05 PM »

Just to clarify, I don't think it was that stretched. There was a little room between my hand and the ball with the fingers in, just not enough for a pencil. So it's not like my hand was still flat on the ball, because my fingers were slightly raised as well.

That said, me and my driller are going to try and even shorter span and try to really get the finger holes to meet midway between the creases. I think the span will end up coming out to 3 7/8 MF and 3 5/16 RF or something close to that. Pretty short hand huh?

Buzzhead · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2008, 09:55:27 PM »

Some guys have a ring finger that is LONGER than the middle to get a consistant feel.... I know mine is and I am not the only one.
Something to check out too.

--------------------
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JohnP · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2008, 10:28:12 PM »

Maybe I misunderstood your description of your span. I thought you said the leading edge of the finger holes fell 1/4" past the first finger joint, which would be almost to the nail. That's too long. Also, the span combination you mentioned - MF 3 7/8 and RF 3 5/16 - are VERY unusual unless you're using a Sarge Easter grip. Most hands measure a little longer on the ring finger than the middle finger, and I don't remember ever measuring a hand that was 9/16 shorter on the ring finger. -- JohnP

Author Topic: Opinions on Ball Fit? (Read 7861 times)

Jay

Opinions on Ball Fit?

the pooh

Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?

dicnic

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Dan Belcher

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the pooh

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JohnP

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Jay

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Strike300

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Atochabsh

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Jay

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renoatpikeville

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JohnP

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Jay

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Buzzhead

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JohnP

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