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Author Topic: Opinions on Ball Fit?  (Read 7863 times)

Jay

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Opinions on Ball Fit?
« on: June 02, 2008, 07:00:35 PM »
I'm personally having trouble with my ball fit, but I'm working with my driller to make it fit correctly.

Anyways, I posted a whole explanation of what's been going on on another message board so I won't get into that here.  What I want to know is what you guys believe the proper fit should feel like.  Here's some questions I'd like answered:

1) How much and how exactly should you grip the ball during the swing?
2) If you believe in the span test, where should the edge of your hole/grip meet your fingers when you lay them over the holes?
3) How much bevel is necessary?
4) Do most people have to use tape of any kind for grip or release purposes?
5) Mow much of your hand should be in contact with the ball when you put your fingers in?
6) If someone's span is correct, is forward or reverse pitch more popular in the thumb?

I'm trying to get as much information as I can because I'm working with my span and pitches so I don't have to "squeeze".  I would guess I've been squeezing since I've started bowling 8 years ago but only because I had to in order to not dropp the ball.  Now, I'm ready to stop because I feel I'm at a point where I can't improve my physical game or be very versatile because of the squeezing.  

If you guys have any specific questions that would help you in determining what might be my problem, feel free to ask.  As you might guess, I'm pretty irritated with the problem since it's been quite a hassle trying to figure it out.
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2008, 10:56:31 PM »
quote:
Maybe I misunderstood your description of your span.  I thought you said the leading edge of the finger holes fell 1/4" past the first finger joint, which would be almost to the nail.  That's too long.  Also, the span combination you mentioned - MF 3 7/8 and RF 3 5/16 - are VERY unusual unless you're using a Sarge Easter grip.  Most hands measure a little longer on the ring finger than the middle finger, and I don't remember ever measuring a hand that was 9/16 shorter on the ring finger.  --  JohnP


When I said 1/4 past the first finger joint, I actually meant it as in between the first and second joints, not closer to the nail.  But now that I think about it, it was more like 3/16.  I could be wrong about those measurements on the span of that ball as well, but that's how I remember it.  I might not be placing my hand correctly in and on the bill taylor but if my hand is relaxed it will definitely be a span of less than 4 inches.  

I have a dropped ring finger and it's about 1/2 inch shorter than my middle.  Having checked it out again today, I think my span should really be close to 3 15/16 MF and 3 7/16 RF.  I'm quite sure I'm within 1/8 of being right on the ring finger but the middle finger is right on the span we drilled today(just not sure what that span is).

The weird thing is even though the ring finger span isn't to midway between the joints yet, there's still plenty of room between my hand and the ball when I hold it at my side.  A pencil can easily slide in there.

Edited on 6/4/2008 10:58 PM
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2008, 06:20:39 PM »
Here's a pic of me doing the span test on one of my current balls just for reference purposes.  I measure 7/16 long on the middle and 1/2 long on the ring.

http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dsc00020jy1.jpg

The experimental ball me and my driller are using is just about right on the middle and needs some more shortening on the ring.  Don't know exact numbers or anything because it's kept at the pro shop.

Edited on 6/5/2008 6:22 PM
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the pooh

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2008, 06:35:52 PM »
If that Pic is like the span you have been using,you're WAY too long!
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the pooh

onlybowling

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2008, 06:45:32 PM »
agreed - the pic reveals a span that is very much too long.
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2008, 08:44:58 PM »
Yep, a pretty long span.  And yes that's what I've been using for quite a few years.  I think that's 4 3/8" and the dropped ring wasn't really applied.  Given that, I should be around 4" MF and 3 9/16".  I'll be checking it out tomorrow.

Dynoman: Is that span relaxed for you?  I assume you don't squeeze anymore either.  You have a decent sized hand if that is relaxed.  I know I have small hands, hence my span when it's midway between my first two creases of my fingers.  

That reminds me, are you supposed to have just enough room for a pencil between your hand and the ball with the ball at your side or if you're supporting the weight with your non-bowling hand?

Edited on 6/5/2008 8:48 PM
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JohnP

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2008, 09:55:00 PM »
quote:
That reminds me, are you supposed to have just enough room for a pencil between your hand and the ball with the ball at your side or if you're supporting the weight with your non-bowling hand?


The ball should be hanging free by your side -- no support from the other hand with thumb and fingers fully inserted.  By the way, this isn't a standard test.  The driller that taught me showed it to me and I've used it ever since and find it to be quite accurate.  I don't know if any others use it or not.  --  JohnP
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JessN16

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2008, 10:08:15 PM »
OK, time out...

As I'm starting to get confused with all the back and forth, when someone says "first finger joint," are you talking about the joint closest to the fingernail?

Jess
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2008, 10:19:45 PM »
Yes Jess, that's the joint we mean.  

When I do the pencil test even though my ring finger span isn't short enough, it seems like there's too much room for the pencil.  I think I can fit my index finger in there but I haven't tried it.
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2008, 12:13:36 AM »
Then you, sir, should probably get up to date and start using your thumb if you plan on getting better(unless you're averaging 200 plus on harder house shots).  If you just look at bowling as a recreational thing, then nevermind.  Your thumb is key to consistent bowling.  Jason Belmonte and others before him are different cases.
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JohnP

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2008, 11:13:03 AM »
When you took the picture you posted earlier, was your thumb completely in its hole and the fingers stretched slightly over their holes?  When I check someone in person, I can adjust the tightness of the skin between the thumb and fingers to the proper amount.  It's impossible to look at a picture and see if that's been done.  If you've got enough room on the "pencil test" to insert an index finger, the fingers in your picture haven't been stretched out enough.  Most likely your span is actually too short.  I'm not going to try to explain what Deadbait meant, hopefully he'll come back and do that, but he's not a "no thumber", he's referring to the way he grips with his fingers and thumb.  --  JohnP
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2008, 04:00:19 PM »
John, yeah my thumb was in all the way, ad I didn't stretch my fingers(maybe slightly if anything).  When I mentioned the pencil test, I was talking about the experimental ball me and my driller are using.  That pic is one of my current balls.  The pencil test doesn't work with my current stuff.

The MF span on the experimental ball might be too short by 1/16 or 1/8 if that but the ring still is long according to the "leading edge should be midway between the first two creases" span test.  The only thing that makes it feel too short is that there seems to be too much room for a pencil.  Do I need to go by the "first crease of your fingers should be halfway in the holes/grips" span test?  That seems more logical for the pencil test to work but hardly anyone uses that method anymore.
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JohnP

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2008, 10:04:52 PM »
Sorry, I got the comments and the picture mixed up.  I initially go by where the hole position falls on the fingers, then confirm with the pencil.  If the pencil doesn't agree, I adjust spans using the Jayhawk style measuring ball and asking if the tension on each finger feels the same.  If not, I ask which finger the customer thinks needs to be adjusted and whether longer or shorter.  If the tension does feel the same, I adjust spans (one way or the other depending on the pencil test) equal amounts on each finger, then ask if the result feels better or worse.  My final step is to adjust pitches based on my analysis of the hand.  Ultimately the customer has to provide feedback on how he wants the grip to feel to finalize the grip.  --  JohnP
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #28 on: June 06, 2008, 11:13:54 PM »
I want my grip to be relaxed.  But I'm sure if it's too short you will end up squeezing the ball then too.  So the general agreement has been the leading edge of the finger holes being midway between the creases.

Me and my driller are very close to that on the experimental ball now.  It's right there on the ring finger but about 1/8 too short on the middle finger.  I can't fit my index finger in between my palm and the ball(with it hanging at my side) like I think I could before.  A pencil goes in there quite easily, but won't slip through.  Once my middle finger span is right it should be just about right.

Overall, since I'd been bowling with a stretched span for a couple years, this span feels quite short.  As it stands, I'm going to need at least 1/2 forward in the thumb so it stays on my hand with less effort on my part, maybe more.  Does that seem bad?

Edited on 6/8/2008 7:01 PM
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Jay

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2008, 09:04:18 PM »
Need some opinions on one more thing.  When doing the test to check for proper span, should you have your hand reaxed, but also firm because you don't want your span to be super short?
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the pooh

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Re: Opinions on Ball Fit?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2008, 10:00:33 PM »
Stretch your hand firmly over the holes and then relax it about half the pressure.The pressure you put on the hand should approximate the weight of the ball hanging by your side.
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the pooh
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