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Author Topic: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)  (Read 8335 times)

EFFEN 10

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Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« on: October 07, 2012, 01:23:12 PM »

 My Sunday AM league is a 14 team,3 men per team.We just finished week 5.
Unfortunately,5 of those teams have 2 man rosters and are using a vacant bowler.Our league rules are a vacant bowler score is 150 plus handicap. Handicap is 90% of 220 which is 63 pins for a 213 score every game.639 series.
My team has a full roster and today was the 4th time in five weeks we have bowled a vacant bowler team.Perhaps this is sour grapes on my part,but my team is in last place. I’ve been in this league for 12 years, and I’ve NEVER had a team in last place.I spoke with the league president about this situation,stating it’s not fair to the teams with full rosters.As a side note, 3 of the vacant teams are in the top 5 in the standings,while the other 2 are in the middle of the standings.I suggested adjusting the pairings each week and have 4 of the vacant teams bowl each other,with the 5th rotated among the rest of the remaing full  roster teams.He didn’t like that.I then suggested having a league meeting to discuss the vacant bowler score because USBC  suggests that it be based on the league handicap,but it ultimately is up to the league.No answer from him.I also asked him if the teams were covering the weekly league payment and they are not,so the prize fund is taking a hit. By the way,his team is one of the vacant bowler teams.
The more I practice,the luckier I get.

 

charlest

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2012, 02:31:46 PM »
I'm not positive, but I don't think it's legal to change a league's by-laws in the middle of a season. Especially since changes require 2/3 of the captains to agree. Seems like you have many teams, for whom a change to this vacancy rule is not beneficial.

When scoring is difficult, that 213 (out of a possible 220) can be pretty valuable. From the sound of your situation, this is what is happening. That vacancy is causing more than 50% of those teams to win a lot of points.

Some of those teams could join together and produce 4 full teams or at least 3 with only 2 needing vacancy scores.

Some rule changes you might consider for next year:
1. Make the vacancy score less inviting. One of my leagues used a 120 score plus the handicap.
2. Only allow teams to use a vacancy for xx number of weeks. If there's more than one vacancy team, they must merge in some fashion. Or some similar rule.

There are legitimate reasons to need a sub, like mine below. But it has to made unattractive in the long run.

My team had to use a vacancy score last year because one of my teammates died on Thanksgiving. It took us 8 weeks to find a sub who wanted to pay and bowl. Then he was injured for 2 more months and we had to use a sub. We had to pay for the sub and this whole mess cost us a lot of money. We would have been better off dissolving the team and just subbing ourselves..

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Aloarjr810

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2012, 02:43:58 PM »
I'm not positive, but I don't think it's legal to change a league's by-laws in the middle of a season. Especially since changes require 2/3 of the captains to agree. Seems like you have many teams, for whom a change to this vacancy rule is not beneficial.
You need a 100% in writing to make a rule change.

Rule 122 - Meetings

Rules shall be adopted at a meeting prior to the start of the league schedule by the board of directors,
unless the league elects to have its rules adopted by the membership. After the league schedule
begins, a change in the league rules and approved prize list can be made only with the written consent
of every team captain or designated representative
.


« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 02:46:19 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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EFFEN 10

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2012, 06:34:40 PM »


Some of those teams could join together and produce 4 full teams or at least 3 with only 2 needing vacancy scores.








charlest,that was one of the first things I suggested to him,and he stated that none of those teams want to do that.Short of having my team quit,(or threaten to quit the league) do you or any others have an idea on how to handle this situation. Your giving a distinct advantage to the teams having a vacant bowler.
The more I practice,the luckier I get.

charlest

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2012, 07:48:40 PM »
Without a 100% vote as Aloarjr810 stated, you're not going to be able to change anything, until next year. I have no other straws for you to grasp at. Sorry.

The problem is the situation meets the USBC and the league by-laws at this point in time.

The vacancy rules were not meant to allow vacancies for the life the season, as far as I can guess. It was assumed that people would not want this to go on forever.

Oh, one good thing, is that since the teams with one vacancy are not contributing to the prize fund for 3 people, they would only be entitled to 2/3 of whatever their final prize is. The rest would be distributed based on what people will contribute. For the other teams that's 3 people's worth.

Has the prize list been drawn up yet?? That distribution will make life very difficult for the president and treasurer to draw up or approve a proper prize fund.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Aloarjr810

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2012, 08:22:54 PM »
As for the prizelist it would be based on 14 full teams. The teams with the vacancies would then have any monies owed deducted from their winnings, at the end of the season if they didn't fill in the missing.

It shouldn't effect the prize money for the other teams.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2012, 09:27:23 PM by Aloarjr810 »
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charlest

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2012, 09:08:25 PM »
As for the prizelist it would be based on 14 full teams. The teams with the vacancies would then have any monies owned deducted from their winnings, at the end of the season if they didn't fill in the missing.

It shouldn't effect the prize money for the other teams.

No, but it should put a dent and a shock in the ego and the pocketbook of the smart*sses, with the vacancies, who now think they own the league.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

jrs813

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2012, 07:14:27 AM »
what about the rule about being two weeks behind on lineage and forfitting points?  would this not apply here??

trash heap

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2012, 08:44:17 AM »
If it was me, I would choose to leave the league.  The problem with all this is the amount of money put into the prize fund. If those 2 man teams were contributing the same amount of money as the three man teams then I see no problem with the handicap score of 213.


 
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charlest

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2012, 08:58:36 AM »
what about the rule about being two weeks behind on lineage and forfitting points?  would this not apply here??

I don't think so. Vacancy means there's no roster entry. You don't pay the lineage fee and the prize fee. This allows the league not to owe the house the fee for those 3 games. When you use a substitute, you owe lineage and prize find fees: the league fees for that position. Substitute means you have a person in that roster position and you are bowling for him/her.  Then the team owes. In this case there are only 2 team members in a 3 person league. When those 2 people pay, the team is paid up to date.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JohnP

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2012, 10:38:22 AM »
Check the league rules to be sure the teams with vacancies aren't required to pay for them.  --  JohnP

t1buck

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2012, 01:56:42 PM »
cannot do much this year. But when we where having trouble with vacancy we change the way vacancy score was used. What we did was used 150 to set the hdcp for the vacancy then minus 10 pin from 150. they would used 140 but got the hdcp for 150.

dR3w

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #12 on: October 08, 2012, 02:40:59 PM »
What should really piss you off is that if a 2 person team wins the league, they get to split first place 2 ways, rather than 3.

Aloarjr810

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #13 on: October 08, 2012, 02:44:40 PM »
If you want a optional vacancy score. The big men's league here use's a  0 vacancy score with handicap

Example:
Vacancy score = 0
Hdcp is 198

Hdcp is 90% of 220
220 - 0 = 220 X 90% = 198 hdcp
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EFFEN 10

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Re: Opinions/Suggestions Re:Teams with vacant Bowlers(kinda long)
« Reply #14 on: October 08, 2012, 06:55:20 PM »
Thank You all for the replies and suggestions.I did speak by phone today with our local USBC association that the league is sanctioned through.She agreed with all the points I stated here in this thread along with saying it's things like this that causes us to lose bowlers.She said that she'll speak with the league president about the situation
and let me  know what was said.I'll update my thread with what happens.It should be interesting before I start bowling this Sunday AM.
The more I practice,the luckier I get.