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Author Topic: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!  (Read 5443 times)

LuckyLefty

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Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« on: February 08, 2006, 04:42:42 AM »
I have been blessed to be around golf most of my life...and also blessed to have crossed paths with some of the top all time pros in bowling...sr amateur stars and current winning professionals on the tour and now occassionally run into some up and nationally known up coming juniors or just post juniors in bowling.

One thing that has struck me in general is the sort of negative view of the current crop of juniors and what I view as very self defeating attitudes they have versus say aspiring golfers and also the top bowlers of the past!

While in golf Pia Nillson has set up a whole set of mental and physical training aimed at golfers aspiring to shoot and envision the possibility of shooting 18 birdies in a round....

Or what she calls

Vision 54


Bowling on the other hand disdains any great scoring on top hat conditions.
ie Robert Mushtare.

Particularly damaging to bowling I believe is the impression that high scores on a top hat are not worth anything.  (Our websites continual insults to our own resident high average superstar(Rev O!)  The recent disdain for the accomplishment of Robert Mushtare.

Now I know that one of America's recent favorite pastimes is self loathing...I wonder why this has become such a dominant force in bowling....versus golf glorifies the stupendous score no matter the difficulty of course...as long as a course is called "regulation"...over 6000 yards!

The effect I believe is that many bowlers that are coached in mainstream programs have this sort of outlook.  Any high scoring on a top hat is worthless.  Having a knack for scoring well on a difficult condition is the only type of scoring to admire....  And I believe that bowlers spend so much time bowling on tough conditions...that when they get to cake they can't or haven't conditioned the mind to expect or picture themselves scoring unbelievable numbers.

Along these lines our current center is a frequent stopping point for junior gold programs and qualifying.  Often I see guys that really look that they don't have games that would score high..on a tophat seem to do very well and then other guys with say "BIG" games really struggle!  Many others are so overwhelmed that to me I can only imagine that Mom and Dad are making they stay with them game...as I see silly low scores!

At one time the Pro tour seemed to rotate thru a series of undefined set of conditions...some easy and high scoring...some hard and lower scoring.  Some guys never contended much on the hard sites...some guys contended well on the easy sites.  We divided players up in our minds that this guy was a "winner"came thru in the clutch or a "non winner".  But a player did not have to be versatile over all conditions.

Nowadays a protourist really needs to be a jack of all trades to get on tour(all 5 patterns) but maybe not a master of any!  Also there aren't many wide open scoring shots on tour(unless you count pattern E....Cheetah?)

The point of this is that high scoring on a top hat's is a skill.  A fun skill to have and watch!  I've seen posts by TGod that this great and different skill is not seen as much and I miss it!

Also because of the group think above I believe the several great junior bowlers that I meet are limiting their abiltity to shoot these Mushtare like scores when the conditions arrive because of their lack of mental training or even regard for these types of feats that are so exciting to watch but so bowling...politically incorrect at this time!

REgards,

LUckylefty  

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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

 

a_ak57

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2006, 02:55:13 PM »
LL, why would anyone want to respond?  You ignore ANYONE who brings up points against yours.  So what would be the motive in responding to someone who will completely ignore you and then go off on another tangent?  And now apparently make up statements that others have said, such as the nationals thing.

I'm with rags, please show us the exact passage from which you quoted that?
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RSalas

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #17 on: February 08, 2006, 02:57:26 PM »
ak, stop hijacking LL's posts.  
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Pinbuster

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2006, 03:01:41 PM »
Do you think golfers would celebrate a score of 40 on a 6000 yard course with huge greens shaped like a funnel and the hole in the bottom? Any and all balls hitting the green would roll into the cup.

Golfers celebrate low scores because invariably there is a high skill level in several areas of the game needed to shoot low scores on any course.

And the low scores shot by Geiberger, Duval, Jones and even Sorenstan are celebrated more so as they were done in top flight competition and not on pitch and putt courses. I would throw Maruyama into those as well.

I have said before and will say again.

I believe he could have shot the first one but I don’t believe the ones since.

Watching the video I see nothing that distinguishes him from any of 100 youth bowlers in our area.

Many bowlers revel in their accomplishments on these easy conditions. They have developed styles that exploit these conditions.

But that skill set is limited and most who love the game realize that many of the skills that made bowling great in the past are not represented in their games.

I admire scores shot on conditions that test all skills more than ones that test a limited subset.

Ragnar

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2006, 03:03:08 PM »

quote:


Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.

Show me the exact passage where this is stated.  I'm still not seeing it.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

LuckyLefty

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2006, 03:06:39 PM »
I don't think that is "regulation" length for a course.

I'm just asking for a vote...admire high scoring on a "regulation lane".

Don't like it?

I take Michelle's answer above as she likes high scoring if done by know entities.  A yes...but with qualification.
And in light of this I have misclassified the vote of the gentleman who said he would like it as long as on a regional condition or above(not nationals condition)


Score now

1 say Bowlers
Dislike high scoring
2 say Bowlers like high scoring if from well know pros or on pro conditions
3 insults from Rags  what's new
1 insult from ak  what's new
1 typing practice
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

BackToBasics

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2006, 03:09:34 PM »
quote:
LL, why would anyone want to respond? You ignore ANYONE who brings up points against yours. So what would be the motive in responding to someone who will completely ignore you and then go off on another tangent?


Bingo.  He likes to make wild generalizations and when countered on it he gets defensive.

Ragnar

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2006, 03:13:18 PM »
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.

Show me the exact passage where this is stated.  I'm STILL not seeing it.

--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

LuckyLefty

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2006, 03:15:25 PM »
LL this is just BS! If a top pro or even someone that went to nationals or top regional tournys were to bowl 2 900's we would say, Wow! Great job!

Reclassified to likes high scoring with qualifications.

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS you still have no vote ...but a lot of posts!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

Ragnar

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2006, 03:18:24 PM »
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.

Show me the exact passage where this is stated.  I'm STILL not seeing it.


--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers."  Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Wyrd bið ful aræd!
(Thought to be a member of something called the PMS club by some.)

LuckyLefty

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2006, 04:47:51 PM »
"LL this is just BS! If a top pro or even someone that went to nationals or top regional tournys were to bowl 2 900's we would say, Wow! Great job! "

REgards,

Luckylefty
again...reclassified to likes high scoring...with qualifications.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

302efi

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2006, 09:37:06 PM »
Robert Mushtare is a fraud, plain & simple. LL,I hope the "power" you say he has, is not lofting the ball up 10

One 900 maybe...

4 900s over a period of 1-2 month...

NOPE


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thehurricane

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2006, 09:47:45 PM »
Alright Mushtare, let Luckylefty out of your truck, untie his wrists and ankles and give him his computer back.

You fail to acknowledge the long-running, time-honored relationship between many bowlers and professional assassins. Do what we say, and you'll be fine. If not, we will find you and resolve the situation Chuck Norris style.

No Fear

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2006, 10:17:50 PM »
History is full of Frauds....Mushtare is a fraud plain & simple....No witnesses & the Kid refuses to take a Lie Detector test...He is just taking advantage of the USBC Pre Bowling rule that will be changed this Summer...His father also a fraud is suing the USBC & will probably Win only because The USBC Pre Bowling rules are so loose...Take a Lie Detector Test Robert Mushtare & Prove it....But You won't because Your a FRAUD...& if You get a PBA card the PROs will laugh at You

NOTHUMB

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2006, 10:57:14 PM »
Luckylefty---I, for 1, did not celebrate anyones golf score because I could really care less.

Bowling is something I care about, most scores achieved now are a joke (I honestly believe that).

One more thing---BOWLING IS NOT GOLF and GOLF IS NOT BOWLING. Now that this is straightened out....

Luckylefty---If I shot 900 tomorrow, what would you say? Would you say "Good bowling"? Or would you say "You should put your thumb in the ball"? I guess even if you congratulated me---I would still respond the same way----ITS A JOKE!!!
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DukeHarding

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Re: Our sport encourages defeatist thinking!
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2006, 11:21:18 PM »
Would most golfers (I don't golf), congratulate a player that broke an impossible record, say 18 eagles (or whatever), if the greens were all set up, so the ball would funnel into the hole, as long as you hit the ball onto the green it couldn't miss the hole?

I don't think so . . . There really are no regulations against putting a wall to the pocket. The only 300  I would accept would be a Sport League 300, or one I
shot at the Nationals.

My last 300, I declined to accept . . . I donated the $50 to the Veterans. That is an option, that many bowlers do not take advantage of.

ABC and now the USBC are to blame, for the lack of credibility the game has.
I don't blame Robert Mushtare, I blame the powers that be.

What does your good friend, Dave Davis think of the situation with Mushtare?

His accomplishment is just so unbelievable....it's beyond being taken serious.
What would you think if a non-golfer like me, bought a set of clubs, took a lesson or two, practiced...went ouf by myself shot 18 holes, and had a score card with 5-6 holes-in-one?
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Edited on 2/9/2006 0:11 AM