Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 04:42:42 AM
One thing that has struck me in general is the sort of negative view of the current crop of juniors and what I view as very self defeating attitudes they have versus say aspiring golfers and also the top bowlers of the past!
While in golf Pia Nillson has set up a whole set of mental and physical training aimed at golfers aspiring to shoot and envision the possibility of shooting 18 birdies in a round....
Or what she calls
Vision 54 (http://"http://www.coachingforthefuture.com/PRODUCT54/product54.html")
Bowling on the other hand disdains any great scoring on top hat conditions.
ie Robert Mushtare.
Particularly damaging to bowling I believe is the impression that high scores on a top hat are not worth anything. (Our websites continual insults to our own resident high average superstar(Rev O!) The recent disdain for the accomplishment of Robert Mushtare.
Now I know that one of America's recent favorite pastimes is self loathing...I wonder why this has become such a dominant force in bowling....versus golf glorifies the stupendous score no matter the difficulty of course...as long as a course is called "regulation"...over 6000 yards!
The effect I believe is that many bowlers that are coached in mainstream programs have this sort of outlook. Any high scoring on a top hat is worthless. Having a knack for scoring well on a difficult condition is the only type of scoring to admire.... And I believe that bowlers spend so much time bowling on tough conditions...that when they get to cake they can't or haven't conditioned the mind to expect or picture themselves scoring unbelievable numbers.
Along these lines our current center is a frequent stopping point for junior gold programs and qualifying. Often I see guys that really look that they don't have games that would score high..on a tophat seem to do very well and then other guys with say "BIG" games really struggle! Many others are so overwhelmed that to me I can only imagine that Mom and Dad are making they stay with them game...as I see silly low scores!
At one time the Pro tour seemed to rotate thru a series of undefined set of conditions...some easy and high scoring...some hard and lower scoring. Some guys never contended much on the hard sites...some guys contended well on the easy sites. We divided players up in our minds that this guy was a "winner"came thru in the clutch or a "non winner". But a player did not have to be versatile over all conditions.
Nowadays a protourist really needs to be a jack of all trades to get on tour(all 5 patterns) but maybe not a master of any! Also there aren't many wide open scoring shots on tour(unless you count pattern E....Cheetah?)
The point of this is that high scoring on a top hat's is a skill. A fun skill to have and watch! I've seen posts by TGod that this great and different skill is not seen as much and I miss it!
Also because of the group think above I believe the several great junior bowlers that I meet are limiting their abiltity to shoot these Mushtare like scores when the conditions arrive because of their lack of mental training or even regard for these types of feats that are so exciting to watch but so bowling...politically incorrect at this time!
REgards,
LUckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: KDawg77 on February 08, 2006, 12:48:17 PM
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Oh splendid! This calls for a sexy party!
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 12:53:44 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 01:09:59 PM
David Duvall 59 on one of the easier courses of the PGA tour celebrated!
Now this guy has to shoot 900 at the Nationals to be celebrated...you don't see the difference?
REgards,
Luckylefty
I count that as another agreement! Golf Revels in accomplishment...Bowling disdains it 3 - 0.
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: KDawg77 on February 08, 2006, 01:11:30 PM
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Oh splendid! This calls for a sexy party!
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 01:11:56 PM
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 01:14:27 PM
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.
Golf celebrates scoring on all regulation courses.
REGards,
LUckylefty
PS as often no opinion on subject from you...just insults. No vote.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: KDawg77 on February 08, 2006, 01:16:10 PM
If you read an affirmation from that, Rags just nailed your capabilities.
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Oh splendid! This calls for a sexy party!
Edited on 2/8/2006 2:04 PM
Post by: michelle on February 08, 2006, 01:20:15 PM
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 01:27:26 PM
quote:LL is incapable of recognizing satire.
ONe said Okay = agreement!
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.
Show me the exact passage where this is stated. I'm not seeing it.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 02:34:12 PM
And yet these more out of body accomplishments are even greater accomplishments of the mind than when performed by the top world class performers.
Homero Blancas no name pro 55 out!
Tom Doty 54 for 18 and 24 for 9 out!
All 7 900s out as only done by relative no names.
Shigeki Muryama 58 on a US open qualifying course...out!
journey man pro.
So the vote has changed.
Now 2 to nothing(K Dawg no vote) and Rags...2 insults...more coming!
We'll get his opinion soon average opinion on a subject delivered with insult 3! USually with the thundering insult at that point!
REmember this vote is not whether Robert Mushtare shot a 900 or not...this vote is "Do you believe golfers admire scoring accomplishments on any regulation course more than bowlers?"
"Or phrased another way, do bowlers disdain high scoring accomplishments on non sport shots and golfers admire them?"
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 02:39:20 PM
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 02:40:57 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 02:45:09 PM
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 02:53:25 PM
Now let some other people post...I'm interested to see what bowlers think about high scoring in our sport!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS if still confused I believe they loathe it!
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: a_ak57 on February 08, 2006, 02:55:13 PM
I'm with rags, please show us the exact passage from which you quoted that?
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- Andy
Post by: RSalas on February 08, 2006, 02:57:26 PM
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...formerly "The Curse of Dusty," and "Poöter Boöf" before that...
Post by: Pinbuster on February 08, 2006, 03:01:41 PM
Golfers celebrate low scores because invariably there is a high skill level in several areas of the game needed to shoot low scores on any course.
And the low scores shot by Geiberger, Duval, Jones and even Sorenstan are celebrated more so as they were done in top flight competition and not on pitch and putt courses. I would throw Maruyama into those as well.
I have said before and will say again.
I believe he could have shot the first one but I don’t believe the ones since.
Watching the video I see nothing that distinguishes him from any of 100 youth bowlers in our area.
Many bowlers revel in their accomplishments on these easy conditions. They have developed styles that exploit these conditions.
But that skill set is limited and most who love the game realize that many of the skills that made bowling great in the past are not represented in their games.
I admire scores shot on conditions that test all skills more than ones that test a limited subset.
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 03:03:08 PM
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.
Show me the exact passage where this is stated. I'm still not seeing it.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 03:06:39 PM
I'm just asking for a vote...admire high scoring on a "regulation lane".
Don't like it?
I take Michelle's answer above as she likes high scoring if done by know entities. A yes...but with qualification.
And in light of this I have misclassified the vote of the gentleman who said he would like it as long as on a regional condition or above(not nationals condition)
Score now
1 say Bowlers
Dislike high scoring
2 say Bowlers like high scoring if from well know pros or on pro conditions
3 insults from Rags what's new
1 insult from ak what's new
1 typing practice
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: BackToBasics on February 08, 2006, 03:09:34 PM
quote:
LL, why would anyone want to respond? You ignore ANYONE who brings up points against yours. So what would be the motive in responding to someone who will completely ignore you and then go off on another tangent?
Bingo. He likes to make wild generalizations and when countered on it he gets defensive.
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 03:13:18 PM
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.
Show me the exact passage where this is stated. I'm STILL not seeing it.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 03:15:25 PM
Reclassified to likes high scoring with qualifications.
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS you still have no vote ...but a lot of posts!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Ragnar on February 08, 2006, 03:18:24 PM
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.
Show me the exact passage where this is stated. I'm STILL not seeing it.
--------------------
"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 08, 2006, 04:47:51 PM
REgards,
Luckylefty
again...reclassified to likes high scoring...with qualifications.
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: 302efi on February 08, 2006, 09:37:06 PM
One 900 maybe...
4 900s over a period of 1-2 month...
NOPE
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: thehurricane on February 08, 2006, 09:47:45 PM
You fail to acknowledge the long-running, time-honored relationship between many bowlers and professional assassins. Do what we say, and you'll be fine. If not, we will find you and resolve the situation Chuck Norris style.
Post by: No Fear on February 08, 2006, 10:17:50 PM
Post by: NOTHUMB on February 08, 2006, 10:57:14 PM
Bowling is something I care about, most scores achieved now are a joke (I honestly believe that).
One more thing---BOWLING IS NOT GOLF and GOLF IS NOT BOWLING. Now that this is straightened out....
Luckylefty---If I shot 900 tomorrow, what would you say? Would you say "Good bowling"? Or would you say "You should put your thumb in the ball"? I guess even if you congratulated me---I would still respond the same way----ITS A JOKE!!!
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com
Post by: DukeHarding on February 08, 2006, 11:21:18 PM
I don't think so . . . There really are no regulations against putting a wall to the pocket. The only 300 I would accept would be a Sport League 300, or one I
shot at the Nationals.
My last 300, I declined to accept . . . I donated the $50 to the Veterans. That is an option, that many bowlers do not take advantage of.
ABC and now the USBC are to blame, for the lack of credibility the game has.
I don't blame Robert Mushtare, I blame the powers that be.
What does your good friend, Dave Davis think of the situation with Mushtare?
His accomplishment is just so unbelievable....it's beyond being taken serious.
What would you think if a non-golfer like me, bought a set of clubs, took a lesson or two, practiced...went ouf by myself shot 18 holes, and had a score card with 5-6 holes-in-one?
--------------------
Duke Harding
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bowling Coaches Web Site Link (http://"http://www.bowlingcoach.com/")
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynijf unir cevinpl!
Edited on 2/9/2006 0:11 AM
Post by: 302efi on February 09, 2006, 12:22:48 AM
quote:
This post was NOT about Mushtare, Did you people only read till you saw his name?...
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-Joe
-Brunswick Lefty
Then why did LL just have to use him as the example in the original post ???
"Bowling on the other hand disdains any great scoring on top hat conditions...ie Robert Mushtare.
I think you need to reread the original post
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Nothing but Dyno-Thane
Live by the hook...Die by the hook
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Post by: NOTHUMB on February 09, 2006, 12:32:57 AM
quote:
This post was NOT about Mushtare, Did you people only read till you saw his name?...
Nope we saw who posted the original topic and knew where it was coming from. He claims the people praise Tiger or Duval or Annika for scoring low. The people that praise them is the media and some golfers. I am not a golf fan---but I do go play about 10-15 rounds a summer. I think nothing of golf other than it is great exercise. You could make a course and putt putt course and I would be terrible. I am not impressed by anything these pros do---because I dont care.
If the PBA players bowled on the easiest of the easy and had the opportunity to score like this---would we recognize them? Or would we say "Oh well that pattern was easy"? We say it already. I saw last week or a couple weeks ago during qualifying when people were shooting 300s---"Oh they must be bowling on the easy shot". THESE ARE THE PROS that they are saying this about.
This immediately shows you the difference between golf and bowling.
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Only Losers Feel Pressure
www.thetimekillers.com
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 09, 2006, 06:53:36 AM
Let's eliminate Robert Mustare from the equation..pretend he doesn't exist nor his scores....calm down....now that's it....soothe the temples relax....take a deep breath.
How do you feel about the other 7 no 900s! None thrown by a famous pro. I assume but don't know that all had nice conditions that night...except I heard Glenn Allison's non approved one no one else was over....620...but forget that too!
Do you like the existence of the other 7 900s...most on favorable conditions...I guess? Would you like to throw one?
Roto RPS thank you for sort of getting what I'm asking about!
Nothumb...I'm a BIG fan of no thumb bowling...I have an acquaintance that can go traditional OR go nothumb.. He uses no thumb when oilier and he needs more backend...He looks fantastic thumb or nothumb and is genuine kegel certified as fantastic!
I'm also a big fan of two handed bowling....I love area bowling and bowlers who tear up area bowling shots are my favorite to watch! Me unfortunately...I'm better at better scoring on a little tougher conditions my misfortune! I'd like to be both!
Again...what do you think about the other 7 900s that have been shot...do you like them? Would you shoot one if everything was right and if you did...would you love it or didain it!? I believe most of the new crop of bowlers would didain"it was too easy" it or sabotage it on the way there with negative thinking...ie I'm not good enough to shoot this...."I am not a famous pro I haven't put in enough time on my B game".
What do you think...like great scoring? Golfers do!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: BrunsMike on February 09, 2006, 08:20:57 AM
As for the 7 900's in exsistance, most of them were shot when the conditions and bowling actually meant something unlike todays game where the ultra wall is in effect. But, whos to say those 7 900's were not fabricated?? It would be easier to mark an X on the paper pay off the entire leauge and recieve the award when manual scoring was the best we had in technology. I congradulate the ones we have whether they were true or not only because we cannot change the past nor prove it was done legally. This is why I have decided to step into Sport Bowling, to truely work on my game and to see for my self just how easy THS's really are. I had no idea till I joined my monday night sport leauge.
The question at hand, do i like and congradulate high scoring, Yes and No. Yes if its done on Sport/PBA, no if its on THS.
--------------------
Mike Zadler
NE Lake County IL
Brunswick Equipment
Sanctioned Highs:
775 Series/288 Game
Sanctioned average (2004/2005)
194
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 09, 2006, 08:33:03 AM
I believe all 900s done since 1997??? All probably done with Electronic scoring...and none that I'm aware of on a difficult shot!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: Ragnar on February 09, 2006, 08:34:25 AM
quote:
Other said I disdain scoring on anything but Nationals type condition.
= complete agreement.
Still waiting for you to show me the exact passage where this is stated. I'm STILL not seeing it, nor is anyone else.
Or are you willing to admit that you made this up in your cloud cuckoo land world?
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Post by: BrunsMike on February 09, 2006, 08:45:59 AM
quote:
Yes with qualification.
I believe all 900s done since 1997??? All probably done with Electronic scoring...and none that I'm aware of on a difficult shot!
REgards,
Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Okay, if there all on electronic scoring then that would make it harder to edit the scores. Theres 3 types of electronic score computers that I know of. AMF, Brunswick, and Quibec (sp). The AMF would show up with a Red X as the error or added strike. The Brunswick scoring would have either an A for add of E for error. As for the quebic? I dont remember if that shows anything or not. Been a few years. I still stand by my previous statement. Id still be impressed to see 900 shot just because the person still has to execute a somewhat decent ball on a THS for it to carry even the worst hit. What Id love to see but will never get to. Is to take those 7 people who shot the most (supposed) prestine award in bowling, with their exact feeling the night they shot their 900. See what they would have shot on a Sport Condition. Probably might have shot low 700's IF that.
No on THS.
Yes on SS/PBA.
Thats how i will stand on this topic.
--------------------
Mike Zadler
NE Lake County IL
Brunswick Equipment
Sanctioned Highs:
775 Series/288 Game
Sanctioned average (2004/2005)
194
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 09, 2006, 08:48:36 AM
Move on with your life!
You are spending so much time on this that you are missing the picture! Get over your obsession with me and how you want me to be you! I'm not...and your not me!
The post is about scoring...like it? You've got a lot of posts out here and all about luckylefty! Like scoring?
REgards,
LUckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: bgh on February 09, 2006, 08:49:00 AM
I gave the game up for six years - I came back recently and all of the sudden I care about bowling again! Go Figure. For the longest time never gave two thoughts in a row about it. But every several months, Id get that "I wonder if that bowlers still around, or those lanes still around, or that kind of thinking - only natural after 20 years of bowling. Something about the game is alluring! "The perfect game"???? The nature of the game in itself might be the cause?
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K-----------R
--*--------*--
----*---*-----
----EX-------
----*---*-----
--*-------*---
L-----------G
The Bowling Ball Manufacturing Kingdom Scorecard (hint: they are all good)
Brunswick ***** (King)(Budweiser/Anheuser-Busch)[make Elite, Lane#1, MoRich]
Storm ***** (Prince)(Coors)[make Roto Grip, Dyno-Thane, Circle Athletics?(in transition purchased by Columbia Industries)]
Columbia **** (nobleman)(Miller)[make Track, AMF]
Ebonite *** (jester)(Strohs)[make Hammer]
Visionary (no current rating)(wizard)(microbrew?)
Lanemaster (no current rating)(knight)(more microbrew?)
[Note: The end companies usually spec out their own balls]
Edited on 2/9/2006 9:44 AM
Post by: Ragnar on February 09, 2006, 08:58:04 AM
Oh, by the way, when did it become OK for you to dredge up a statement made by me, returning to it again and again until I finally figured out what you were talking about, but NOT OK for me to ask you to justify your statements?
You ain't gettin' off on this one bubba.
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"I do desire that we may be better strangers." Willie the Shake, As You Like it(III,ii)
Edited on 2/9/2006 9:47 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 09, 2006, 09:13:25 AM
Supersaw above...read it!
REgards,
Luckylefty
PS now get on with you life...if you need to have a catharsisis where you post "what I don't like about Luckylefty"...do it! Please do it in another forum!
But I think we've already seen this post. How many posts before you thunder in with your (always) long withheld opinion and quit wasting time trying to have your Luckylefty post here?
PPS My intent in this post is too see what bowlers think about high scoring in their sport. I believe we are starting to see a trend! I may be getting ready to explode with a generality! It will offend the intellectual in you and the scientist in others and the economist in others... don't read it...it will have no benefit for you...You are incapable of learning anything from me...because you are my intellectual superior, your grammar and all your other wonderful knowledge of worldly and learned subjects have proven it to you.
PPPS meanwhile SOME of my ideas have been an assistance in helping phenomanal bowlers increase averages by over 20 pins per game in league play! Keep focusing on my grammar and focus most on trying NOT to get anything out of anything I post...this could be of the most value to you!
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..
Post by: LuckyLefty on February 09, 2006, 09:22:36 AM
Would you be estatic to have one...or denigrate it as..."it could only happen because the condition was absurdedly easy".
Bob Hanson...as always the voice of reason and knowledge in my opinion.
You have picked up the essence of what I am trying to post or glean as to bowling political correctness.
I think our sport only puts a value on good scoring on difficult conditions and does not value the tremendous SEPERATE set of skills that can make one a devastating open lane condition bowler! Therefore when the opportunity arrives many are unprepared to take advantage or have not opted to develop that seperate skill and mindset!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..