Post by: CountryClubBowler on January 07, 2004, 12:52:40 AM
He asks me, "How much did that new ball set you back?" (pointing to my nugget)
I respond, "Um, it was a christmas present, but it costs about $225"
He responds, "Yeah mine set me back $209, and that's with a discount!"
He was holding a WOW. Now what do I do? Tell him that he overpaid by 50% on a ball? Tons of people are really paying too much money at the local proshop for whatever reason. I don't want to put him out of business or anything. He's a nice guy and all. He just charges outrageous amounts. He will charge something like $230 for a throttle drilled, same with an inferno, and any other TOTL. A Bruiser he will charge I think $185 drilled. I don't know if he doesn't get a sellers discount on the balls or anything, or his volume is so low that he needs to charge that.
My point is that I am torn on whether to say something to his patrons of years that they can save a bundle elsewhere, or let them be. I know I wouldn't buy from him, because I get my TOTL stuff for much cheaper. I'm sure others here have come accross this issue. What do you do? For now I've just decided to say nothing except to my own teammates regarding pricing, but eventually someone else will ask me the same questions, and the same thing will go through my mind.
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on January 07, 2004, 03:55:48 PM
--------------------
15 years and still going strong! 15 years old that is!
DA DA DAAAAAA!! UP UP AND AWAY! TO THE BAT CAVE ROBIN!
Post by: jkiser01 on January 07, 2004, 03:57:42 PM
I would still tell them, thats my 2 cents.. I get tired of hearing about riduculos prices pro shop people are charging..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Post by: TheBowlingKid25 on January 07, 2004, 04:04:04 PM
--------------------
15 years and still going strong! 15 years old that is!
DA DA DAAAAAA!! UP UP AND AWAY! TO THE BAT CAVE ROBIN!
Post by: CountryClubBowler on January 07, 2004, 04:08:06 PM
I do think the prices are pretty high though even considering the standard of living in the San Francisco Bay Area. I shop around a lot and I find the mean price on a ball like the WOW to be no more than $150. On a TOTL it would be more like $200-$210. So we are looking at a substantial savings to the potential customer.
I do understand the markup. That's why I'm not saying they overcharge by $100. But if one proshop charges a lot more than another, is that an acceptable markup?
Post by: Ishmael on January 07, 2004, 04:12:23 PM
quote:
WOWs are about $90 wholesale, markup of 50% takes it to $135. Figure in $35-40 for drilling and you're looking at a $180 bowling ball.
I wish I could make a 50% profit plus labor. I wouldn't be driving an Accord anymore. I'm in the computer industry and we're lucky to get 25% markup and often throw in quite a bit of labor for free. Maybe I should open a pro shop.
Post by: jkiser01 on January 07, 2004, 04:20:24 PM
I promise you that I will never pay that for a ball.. I know my pro shop guy makes nothing close to that on a ball and he does a very good business..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Edited on 1/7/2004 5:18 PM
Post by: michelle on January 07, 2004, 04:28:53 PM
Post by: Porkchop on January 07, 2004, 04:36:14 PM
--------------------
You wanna bet me how much? Let's play!
Post by: jkiser01 on January 07, 2004, 04:40:57 PM
I would laugh in that guys face if he told me it was $75 to drill a blank ball, I don't care if he had a 4 year degree in drilling balls, thats a joke..
$25 bucks is more than enough to drill a blank ball..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Post by: Porkchop on January 07, 2004, 04:42:19 PM
--------------------
You wanna bet me how much? Let's play!
Post by: Porkchop on January 07, 2004, 04:50:09 PM
--------------------
You wanna bet me how much? Let's play!
Post by: jkiser01 on January 07, 2004, 04:52:33 PM
That sounds more than fair.. That a place that would get my business..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Post by: brimar on January 07, 2004, 04:53:52 PM
--------------------
Thanks for reading my post.
Brian
Post by: Porkchop on January 07, 2004, 04:57:05 PM
--------------------
You wanna bet me how much? Let's play!
Post by: brimar on January 07, 2004, 04:59:34 PM
--------------------
Thanks for reading my post.
Brian
Post by: CountryClubBowler on January 07, 2004, 05:01:27 PM
King of the Mill,
I never claimed to know more about running a proshop than the owners, nor do I claim that I know a whole lot about running a retail operation. But if you think that $209 on a WOW is fair then so be it.
My original point, which has been lost partially attributable to my own ramblings, had to do with etiquette concerning other bowlers who I bowl with. What do I tell them? I'm not going to tell the proshop operator that his prices are too high. He can figure that out. And maybe I'm wrong and his prices are amazing considering his overhead. I was talking about the conversation that goes on between non-proshop-operating bowlers.
I'll make it even simpler. Tell them they can get it cheaper or no? So far I'm leaning towards no. Thanks Bones for the answer, it was quite good. Let it be. They were perfectly happy before, I shouldn't change that. Or does the consumer protectionist in me speak out....
Post by: MichiganBowling on January 07, 2004, 06:53:05 PM
I don't notice too many full time pro shop owners that own BMW's or multiple homes, so I'm not going to complain too much about prices. With the increase of people buying bowling balls online, the average pro shop now charges $50-$80 to drill a blank. It's simple, they are losing their sales to places selling balls at or below their cost, so they need to charge more to drill to make up for the sales they are losing.
Now I will agree that there are too many pro shop operators out there who haven't a clue what they are doing, but such is the case in most businesses these days. But a 50% markup on a bowling ball is generally not unheard of and generally not that high.
Also remember that experienced bowlers like most of us in this forum will get better discounts the more we go to the same pro shops, whereas new bowler off the street that comes in has to earn those discounts the same way we did.
In my area, I find that it is worth paying more to get the job done right. If I just go for the cheapest guy in town, chances are I won't even be able to throw the ball right anyways!
--------------------
Brian
MichiganBowling.com
http://www.MichiganBowling.com
Famous Last Words of a Pot Bowler--"Ok, but this is my last game!"
Post by: mumzie on January 07, 2004, 07:22:03 PM
And - I don't see that a 50% markup is ridiculous. Most types of retail businesses use 75-100% (or much, much more) markup to stay in business. Otherwise, why do you think department stores can sell stuff at 60% off? I can assure you that they aren't losing money on all that inventory.
Remember - that "gross profit" has to pay the rent, salaries, equipment, insurance, etc. And - if your pro shop is a little guy, and he orders something for somebody that they don't want, he has to eat the item, 'cause after shipping and restocking fees, it costs the same as keeping it on the shelf.
I get a lot of balls from "non-standard" places, but I try to buy a ball or two a year from my local guy, as well as give him my pro shop work. I need him to stay in business.
Post by: jkiser01 on January 07, 2004, 07:28:50 PM
My point was a 50% markup and a $40 drilling charge TOGETHER is just to much..
Once again, thats just my opinion, I would not buy from a place charging those prices..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01
Edited on 1/7/2004 8:27 PM
Post by: nd300 on January 07, 2004, 07:37:56 PM
By higher ball prices the only one I can remember off the top of my head is 228.95 for a Morich Hercules and he will get whatever pin and weight combination you ask for depending on the ball reaction you want.
I don't have any experience in the industry but my past general business experience tells me that they can't compete with the volume discount available on the Internet but have to charge a markup in order to keep the pro shop open. How much they charge is up tp them---but a fine line does exist between fair markup and idiocy. Some of the posts I've read on this issue tell me that some owners are ripping people off while others are doing it the right way. So it's up to you to decide.
--------------------
Chris
Post by: Rileybowler on January 07, 2004, 08:25:30 PM
Post by: michelle on January 07, 2004, 08:47:43 PM
Let's look at pricing from another perspective- I have seen people that were ecstatic over getting a SuperDuty for $5K off the sticker while other people are making their purchases at what amounts to invoice plus $100. To those paying X over invoice, the ones buying for discount off sticker are getting taken to the cleaners. But if both are happy, who are we to point out the error of their spending ways?
Post by: Mike Austin on January 08, 2004, 09:55:56 AM
It's about supply and demand. If that operator is doing good service and can command that price, then more power to him! The guys that have to lower their price to get more business, don't do as good work or are not doing something to command the higher price. If you don't like the price, then you are free to go elsewhere, but if the service is worth the price, then don't fault the operator. You get what you pay for.
That is why the pro shop business is so brutally hard to make a living. It is set up to fail. 50% of bowlers feel they are owed discounts and want everything for dirt. I do better work, have better equipment, have more experience, I should get a better price, and I do. (Probably why Jkiser is not a customer anymore) I drill some balls for $25 for two different guys, I don't finish off their holes, glue in the grips, glue in thumbs, nothing, they get raw holes, finish it themselves. If you want great service it costs more than minimal service. You get what you pay for.
I provide a service that not everyone can do, and not many can do better. There are plenty of Yahoos that can poke three holes in the ball, those are the guys that charge $10. You get what you pay for.
Most people just don't realize how expensive it is to run a pro shop. Rent, phone, insurances, equipment, supplies, salaries, taxes, taxes, taxes, membership fees and dues, CPA's, credit card fees, costs of banking, mistakes, time issues, solving warranty problems..... You have to factor in competition, the internet..... We have to have enough mark up beyond the cost of the goods to pay for all these things. It is a business, you are supposed to be trying to make a profit, not a break even or loss.
If you have a good driller, and he charges what YOU think is a fair price, be thankful, and take care of that driller, buy him a Coke, he'll take care of you. If you don't have that, then it is your priority to find one. Don't waste money on bad service. But, don't fault a driller for getting top dollar. He may be providing services and benefits that you don't know about that make his price more than fair. You get what you pay for.
--------------------
Mike Austin
Mike Austin's Precision Pro Shop
Houston, TX
strikes4days@sbcglobal.net
Storm Pro Shop Staff Member
Vise Grips Staff Member
Onward through the Storm!!!!
Check out my web site - www.BirdDogBowling.com
Post by: komike on January 08, 2004, 10:48:16 AM
Post by: jkiser01 on January 08, 2004, 11:31:19 AM
Not true on your statement about why I am not a customer anymore. The drills you did for me where included in the ball price, so what you charge for drilling is a mute point. The 2 balls you drilled for me where great and I told you that. Its just we have not done anymore business together and I was able to find a great guy here locally to drill my stuff at great prices..
--------------------
If they only made a ball that would carry that d*mn 10 pin..
jkiser01