I have an El Nino 2000 that I can still use, if only it were 15#. Still strong downlane, had to get inside my Cell to hit the pocket. If I get a chance to bowl on any flatter patterns, it will be with me- on 40 ft flat, I was able to play a nifty 15-8 line with it, when the Cell was straight down 10 with slower speed and no real back end move. Also have the Reaction Roll, for floods, at 600 grit. I have buried somewhere a Deep Violet Zone as well. Last I threw those 2 balls, both were smooth.