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Author Topic: pba experience  (Read 2738 times)

jimsey

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pba experience
« on: October 31, 2006, 08:15:18 AM »
Did anyone happen to catch the news that was buried in the USBC Masters telecast that was tied to the USBC "out of the cage" ad in Bowlers Journal. http://www.bowl.com/sportbowling/articleView.aspx?i=12311&f=12  The announcement was a new addition to the USBC sport condition program adding the 5 PBA lane conditions to the current sport program.  This allows some specific lane conditions that are as much as a 3:1 ratio to conform to sport bowling standards.  Will this type of marketting plan enhance the sport program by appealling to bowlers who want the challenge of PBA conditions?  Will this be more of a summer niche league format or will many of the 35 week leagues want to take this on?  Thoughts?

 

kmanestor22

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2006, 04:26:05 PM »
The PBA patterns are MUCH easier than sport compliant patterns on my lanes.  The catch here is that you have to change the pattern for your surface to make it fall under the 3:1 ratio.  A machine set up to run nothing but THS does not get the oil outside down the lane, so it is very difficult to get that ratio and maintain the reaction you see on TV.  Also, did you notice that to hold these leagues the center must get USBC Sport Center approval, something not one of the centers in my area has done.  Furthermore, the bowler have to put up the extra sanction fee that standard Sport Bowlers do.  This is a better approach to the Sport Bowling idea, but it still has flaws.
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se7en

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2006, 04:29:07 PM »
One thing I do like about it is you bowl the condition the pro's did the week prior.
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kmanestor22

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2006, 04:30:58 PM »
We do that already.  We have a non-sanctioned sweeper every week with Sunday's pattern.  Eugene McCune was bowling it every week, but he is on tour now.
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se7en

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2006, 04:43:08 PM »
I think it should help in the long run. WSOP paid $12 million to first place, because so many people staked in.

The PBA payouts would be much higher if it had more members taking part in it, which might result in more viewer popularity. How that's possible under the current system (become great in leagues and local tournaments, move to PBA regionals, and if you're good enough, head to the tour.) is beyond me.

I think there are a lot of uncut gems in the bowling world that, with enough exposure to the touring conditions, might have enough confidence to make that jump and increase the playing field.

I don't know Jeff Carter's history, but I was in a discussion with a friend today, who insisted that I could be a successful PBA bowler soon since I sport a 205 average. He's not a bowler. I told him that a guy with a record average of 261 and over one-hundred 300 games, a phenominal bowler by all rights, isn't exactly taking candy from the pro's on tour (YET).

What if Jeff bowled PBA leagues like this for 5 years before making the jump? I bet he would have done better out of the gate, rather than playing catch up on experience.

But I could be totally wrong. I don't understand the system completely, or the path bowlers take to the top.
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kmanestor22

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2006, 04:51:59 PM »
I think leagues like this a the perfect tool for preparing to bowl in the PBA.  Eugene keeps sharp bowling any week that he is in town.  Even Billy Oatman bowled in our PBA Match Play league we had (he took 1st place $1000).  I can hit certain shots on certain nights, but I'm not trying for the tour til I'm averaging 220 on everything and I'm far away from that!
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qstick777

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2006, 03:37:36 PM »
But, do you think this will increase bowler turn out?

So many people are complaining about the THS ruining scoring and taking the "sport" out of bowling.  Do you think this will help "revive" bowling and get more people interested?

People have already said that Sport Bowling is good for knocking 20 pins off your average, and it is fairly difficult (for many) to find a Sport League.  

With so many people (in this small universe of BR) asking for tougher conditions, do you think these PBA Experience leagues will be a success?
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T-GOD

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2006, 03:55:38 PM »
quote:
I told him that a guy with a record average of 261 and over one-hundred 300 games, a phenominal bowler by all rights, isn't exactly taking candy from the pro's on tour (YET).
I'll bet the pro's wouldn't take any money from Jeff if bowling on THS. So why does the PBA have to put out tougher shots just so they can beat Jeff..?

If the pro's are really pro calibur, they should be able to beat anyone on a THS too..!! I guess the PBA pro's are scared of THS bowlers. =:^D

Fluff E Bunnie

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2006, 07:36:12 AM »
It will increase my bowler turnout.  I want to try it and get better at it.  Why not?

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KDawg77

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2006, 08:08:51 AM »
This is a great move for bowling. We started a sport league this season and effectively shut another league down because all the "serious" bowlers wanted this and moved to join. Money was irrelevant in their decision making becaus eeven the "big guns" struggle here. Adding PBA patterns will only draw more interest to an already strong league.
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jimsey

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2006, 08:11:36 AM »
What I think a lot of people will miss in  challenge is that they will be bowling on the same oil patterns, but they will be using the same lane surface every week.  Also, they will typically bowl 3 games on the same pair.  In PBA competition, the pros bowl a 5 or 8 game block, switching pairs after each game. Next week it is on to a new center with a different lane surface.  Huge difference from 35 weeks of 5 different patterns.  A great opportunity none the less.

Spider Ball Bowler

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2006, 08:15:11 AM »
There is no doubt for me that if a PBA league were to open within 30 miles of me I'd join.

I bowled a PBA Regional and had NO idea what to expect.  I can't remember the pattern number, but it was the one where you had to hit the break point inside of 5.  I HAD NO IDEA, and was already at a disadvantage.  I didn't know how to play the shot.  Could I have played that line?  I don't know because by the time I realized where all the scores were coming from I was so ready to go home it was ridiculous.  It was the most expensive lesson I have ever received.

I'd love to bowl Regionals, but going into a tournament like that against such GREAT bowlers, I'm already at a disadvantage, and not knowing how to play the shot puts me ever further behind.

So I think this is a good idea.  I think it will ultimately bring out higher numbers on the main tour as well as the regional level.  If you have a chance to bowl on something and have an idea of what to expect and where to throw the ball, I think most people would be more willing and feel more confident to bowl against the best in the world.
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Jeff Carter

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2006, 08:46:29 AM »
First let me say that i think that the PBA Experience concept is a great idea. Its about time that the PBA decided to do something good for the sport and enable leagues to use their patterns by joining forces with Sport Bowling. Also, kudos to Sport Bowling for recognizing that the 2:1 patterns were just way to tough for the general population. You cant expect people to go from 12:1 ratios to 2:1 and not lose interest. The only issues that i see are 1: getting people to actually swallow their pride and bowl in these types of leagues, 2: Bowling Centers are going to have to dedicate themselves to the concept. Keep in mind that you will need a lane machine that has the capability to duplicate these patterns, and you will have to at least double strip afterwards to get the pattern totally off of the lane. 3: marketing will be an issue. If not enough people know about this, it will never grow. This will need to be a joint effort by the PBA, USBC and the BPAA as well as scratch bowlers and pro shop operators. The health of the sport of bowling depends on how many people embrace ideas like these. As far as the sanctions fees go, i think they should be raised to at least $25.00 per year anyway if not more. Keep in mind that this sport is dying and something needs to be done to revive it. You cant join any other sport membership organization for as little money as the USBC charges. Check into joining the USGA and you will see what i mean. If bowling wants to make a comeback, the credibility needs to be restored and the best way to do that is to invest money in marketing and creative ideas to bring interest back to the sport. There has been a lot of talk lately about the PBA prize fund cuts and how this affects the sport. We had player meetings on Wens and i'll assure you that the PBA isnt going away, but is certainly in need of a financial boost to get things heading north again. More sponsors could be on the way, but the PBA is just now getting close to breaking even. An influx of money brought in from membership dollars through the PBA and the USBC could be enough to help boost the PBA and revive the PWBA. Without the professional levels of our sport, there will eventually be no competitive bowling. The amateur scene is already drying up, the Generations Tour that was supposed to go over big is already failing miserably and the PWBA still is non-existent. The entire sport needs a makeover and the only way to fix problems like these are with money.

Too address some posts here :
Jimsey - i hope that the marketing is good enough to entice bowlers to want to join the PBA experience leagues with the end goal of joining the PBA. Hopefully these leagues will be stepping stones for our future professionals. I can see these leagues starting out as summer leagues, then expanding to full seasons

Kmanestor22 - Yes, PBA patterns are much easier than the actual Sport Patterns, but if you havent bowled on the patterns you may not think they are so easy. I've seen numerous bowlers that come out after averaging 240 in league and average 170-180 in regionals. Its the same as anything else, it takes experience to get better. As far as the lane machine issue, every machine is capable of putting these patterns out. Its easier for some machined than others, but i would think that there needs to be some sort of requirements for the centers to be able to get sanctioning for these leagues

Se7en - Wow, thanks for throwing me under the bus with the candy comment ! I realize that i havent won or even made a show but since i joined the PBA in 1999 ( at 30 years old mind you ) ive:
had a 72 % cash rate on the national tour
had a 82 % cash rate on the regional tour
made over $240,000.00 in earnings ( with only 4 1/2 years of that on Tour )
garnered two 5th place finishes and a few other top 10s
won 11 PBA regional titles ( which is the second most to Steve Jaros in the Midwest region since 1999 )

I came out here with ZERO experience on the PBA patterns, let alone the formats and life on the road. The last 8 years have been a work in progress and a huge learning experience. I'm constantly working hard on getting to the next level. I'd have to say that if i had the opportunity to bowl in leagues like these when i was younger, i would certainly have progressed farther than i have now. I also went the family business route for 10 years, which knocked a considerable chunk off of my career. I put no weight into what happens on a THS. I really dont even recognize the average record anymore and the only 300s that are meaningful to me are the ones that come in PBA competition. I'm pretty sure that if you were in my shoes you would understand.

T-God - this is kind of a touchy subject. For the most part, when pros go home and bowl in leagues or local tournaments on a THS we get our butts kicked. I know that my numbers when i go home are not as good as some of the other guys in town, partly because we just dont see conditions that allow you that much mistake room. Besides, most of the guys out here have devoloped games that match up better to tougher conditions now. Slower ball speeds and more roll match up better to the PBA patterns, while that might not work as well on a THS. I'm not saying that we shouldnt bowl well, its just tougher to match up. I guess the worst part about it is when i bowl in league while im home, i develop so many bad habits that i have to get back out here to fix them ( and thats pretty sad in my opinion )

Jimsey - again great comment. I would hope that the individul leagues would recognize these things and allow the players to move pairs after every game. If they would follow some of the same procedures and rules that we do, it would be a great stepping stone for preparing people for the future


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Edited on 11/3/2006 9:39 AM

Edited on 11/3/2006 9:39 AM

Rev_O

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2006, 08:54:31 AM »
I'm bowling in a sanctioned sport league this season for the first time. Even though I can't bowl righty now because of my shoulder injury, I still go and TRY TO LEARN the game lefty. Mind you, on the THS, I'm at about 206 lefty currently. Not great, but not bad by any means considering I've bowled righty for 30 yrs!! This is definatly a win-win situation IF you, the BOWLERS can get the chip off of your shoulder and JOIN A SPORT LEAGUE!!

Kudos to Jeff for taking time ti chime in. I'm sure we'll be seeing him on the TV this season a few times, and getting that 1st PBA NATIONAL TITLE!!!
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Pinbuster

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Re: pba experience
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2006, 09:19:14 AM »
Jeff thanks for the response.

While the idea is good it just will not be wide spread for the same reasons that sport shot leagues are not. It is too much work for the centers with little or no payback.

They must have a high dollar lane machine capable of being programmed.

Like Jeff said they would need to double strip lanes before laying down the pattern to get rid of the THS and then afterwards to get rid of the PBA pattern.

The whole house probably would not being willing to bowl on the PBA patterns that shift so you are treating only a section of the lanes differently having to reprogram the machine during the run.

If the PBA league was on first shift then second shift leagues probably wouldn’t want to bowl on it.

If the PBA league was second shift the first shift wouldn’t want to play on it nor would the PBA league want the random breakdown from an early league.

That being said what needs to be done is to simply run the PBA patterns all the time on all the leagues. Then everyone would understand better where they stood in the pecking order since everyone is bowling on the same conditions.

Houses wouldn’t have to switch back and forth all the time and you could set up virtually any machine to put out a compliant pattern. But we know the integrity of proprietors on putting out legal patterns so that would never work, someone would cheat to try and get bowlers.

On a side note I would agree in that the USBC needs to fund some of the prize money on the tour. Even a couple of extra bucks per sanction fee could double the prize money currently being offered.