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Author Topic: Partical balls question  (Read 7940 times)

BowlingforSoup

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Partical balls question
« on: February 11, 2017, 10:12:53 AM »
Any advantage to Partical balls or disadvantages.I notice only a few are manufactured anymore.lord field has those covers from time to time.

 

NeverLearn

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2017, 09:47:06 AM »
Never Learn

I should have explained more, but my intention was to provide the ONLY update USBC has made to covers, which is the roughness...nothing to do with the hardness/softness of a cover. So I agree with your point that I have not heard (or have already forgotten) if there was an change to a max/min on cover hardness/softness.

I understand, and thank you.

My point was that Gid837's driller seems to have mislead him; I was trying to understand if I had missed something in the world of bowling that would have led to the forced non-use of particles. But it seems like they are alive and well, even if they are living under an alias.

Aloarjr810

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2017, 09:48:15 AM »
in 2007ish when USBC changed the requirements for the softness of bowling balls, particle material wasnt really able to used as much because it was to soft.

I believe what he is referring to is when they changed the MOH's Hardness specification back in 2005 in regard to materials used in coverstocks. (such as the particle materials)

Which is not the same and is a separate specification than the durometer "D" hardness scale (which stayed the same at 72) which is used to measure the ball's overall hardness or softness.

These specifications are listed in the Equipment & specification manual under the "Physical Specifications" section.

Hardness Min:72 Max:None
Mohs’ Hardness Min:None Max:6.0


"2. New Mohs' Hardness specification.
Mohs' hardness is a material hardness scale that differs from the current durometer "D" hardness scale.

It was developed by Fredrich Mohs' in 1812. Hardness of a material is determined by observing whether its surface is scratched by a substance of known or defined hardness.

The Mohs' hardness of any material added to or included in the coverstock of a bowling ball shall not exceed 6.0 on the Mohs' hardness scales tested in accordance with the USBC approved test procedure.

A standard glass sample with a Mohs' hardness of 6.0 will be used to determine if the materials in the cover stock of a bowling ball will scratch the standard glass sample.

Any ball with cover stock material that is harder than 6.0 will scratch the sample and that ball will not be approved.

The standard glass sample will be manufacturered by an independent contractor specifically for use in this test. The test method is very simple and can be reproduced at the ball manufacturers lab.

This will be implemented by 8/1/05. The current durometer "D" specification will remain in effect."

« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:54:11 AM by Aloarjr810 »
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xrayjay

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2017, 11:00:00 AM »
Lord Field and Lanemasters stop making particle balls a few years ago. You can still get a few on closeout on the Lanemasters page

when did they stop making particle balls?

Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

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NeverLearn

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2017, 11:31:43 AM »
Lord Field and Lanemasters stop making particle balls a few years ago. You can still get a few on closeout on the Lanemasters page

when did they stop making particle balls?



I think there are no more Lane Masters particle balls; not sure there was any fixed cut-off date. As for Lord Field, there still are some. Check the matrix provided by California Bowling via BossTull in this thread:
http://www.ballreviews.com/lane-masters/who-pours-these-t313262.0.html;msg2571848;topicseen#new
It lists the coverstock type for their balls as of Jan. 2017.

Gid837

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2017, 02:30:05 PM »
was actually talking to my boss about the death so to speak of particle balls. In the early 2000's they were all the rage. Anyways he told me A) they tended to die out much quicker. B) in 2007ish when USBC changed the requirements for the softness of bowling balls, particle material wasnt really able to used as much because it was to soft.

Number 2 would be interesting to see an official source on this. I don't remember anything along those lines. Also, I know of 2 balls that have been produced since 2007 (for sure) that have particle in it. Incinerate and Pure. Wanna say Incinerate has 3% load...

It wasn't saying that no particle balls were to be made. If you recall, especially with Ebonite in the early 2000's. They had a ton of particle pieces. and since then. very very very few. Particle balls were very common in that time frame.
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Gid837

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2017, 02:32:52 PM »
Never Learn

I should have explained more, but my intention was to provide the ONLY update USBC has made to covers, which is the roughness...nothing to do with the hardness/softness of a cover. So I agree with your point that I have not heard (or have already forgotten) if there was an change to a max/min on cover hardness/softness.

I understand, and thank you.

My point was that Gid837's driller seems to have mislead him; I was trying to understand if I had missed something in the world of bowling that would have led to the forced non-use of particles. But it seems like they are alive and well, even if they are living under an alias.

It is very possible that he misused words or that i misunderstood him.
Gid Rash
Brunswick Regional Staff Member
2019 SW Region PBA Rookie of the Year
Oil Bowl Pro Shop
Longview, Tx

BowlingforSoup

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2017, 03:48:44 PM »
Lots of good info.Here is another question about particle balls.Seems like somewhere in this thread someone said they are smoother rolling.That gets my attention.I am very low tilt pin up and small val angles go sideways for me off the friction.I notice Lord Field still has the big hurt listed as particle and Bowlerx.com has them for 69.95.Not like I haven't blowed 70$ on a doorstop before.But if they seem to be smoother could be a plus for me.

BossTull

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2017, 04:26:47 PM »
in 2007ish when USBC changed the requirements for the softness of bowling balls, particle material wasnt really able to used as much because it was to soft.

I believe what he is referring to is when they changed the MOH's Hardness specification back in 2005 in regard to materials used in coverstocks. (such as the particle materials)

Which is not the same and is a separate specification than the durometer "D" hardness scale (which stayed the same at 72) which is used to measure the ball's overall hardness or softness.

These specifications are listed in the Equipment & specification manual under the "Physical Specifications" section.

Hardness Min:72 Max:None
Mohs’ Hardness Min:None Max:6.0


"2. New Mohs' Hardness specification.
Mohs' hardness is a material hardness scale that differs from the current durometer "D" hardness scale.

It was developed by Fredrich Mohs' in 1812. Hardness of a material is determined by observing whether its surface is scratched by a substance of known or defined hardness.

The Mohs' hardness of any material added to or included in the coverstock of a bowling ball shall not exceed 6.0 on the Mohs' hardness scales tested in accordance with the USBC approved test procedure.

A standard glass sample with a Mohs' hardness of 6.0 will be used to determine if the materials in the cover stock of a bowling ball will scratch the standard glass sample.

Any ball with cover stock material that is harder than 6.0 will scratch the sample and that ball will not be approved.

The standard glass sample will be manufacturered by an independent contractor specifically for use in this test. The test method is very simple and can be reproduced at the ball manufacturers lab.

This will be implemented by 8/1/05. The current durometer "D" specification will remain in effect."


and somewhere I read this is the reason why Lane Masters quit using diamond particles.
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WOWZERS

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2017, 07:21:23 PM »
Soup....they are smoother (particle balls) because the "particle" helps to grip the lane earlier than non-particle balls...which makes them bleed energy quicker, so there is less energy left down lane when the ball encounters friction at the end of the pattern compared to a ball that skids through the front part of the lane. That is why you do not see the hockey stick type reaction out of particle balls

don coyote

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2017, 07:43:19 PM »
I wanted to throw my 2 cents on this topic. I have and continue to use Particle balls for a couple of reasons-1. They are so very predictable, and 2. They never overact!

I use a particle as my benchmark(Mega Friction) with a weak pin(pin over the middle finger, CG barely on the positive side of the ball. I start off rolling this down and in and it tells me if I should go to my Vandal, Paradox, or Jackal LE. I can also go down to my Gargoyle or Blue/Green Centaur.

I LOVE the predictability! (but I also am able to stay with them longer) This is why I have other NIB Particle balls. Most of them are Diamond or Carbon Particles.

My $0.02!

avabob

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2017, 09:26:12 PM »
I had very good luck with a few Brunswick particles around 2000.  I thought they held up pretty well.  A couple of lane men told me they really tore up synthetic lane surfaces a lot faster than non particles

JamminJD

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2017, 09:41:22 PM »
I had very good luck with a few Brunswick particles around 2000.  I thought they held up pretty well.  A couple of lane men told me they really tore up synthetic lane surfaces a lot faster than non particles
Heard the same things as well. Seen some of it doing Lane certs also during the early 2000's..

Kegler300800

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2017, 10:49:55 AM »
I have more 300 games with particle balls than just resin. I liked particle balls.
Balls: Motiv Trident Abyss, Motiv Golden Jackal, Motiv Hydra and Motiv Hyper Sniper. All made in the USA.

avabob

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2017, 02:50:01 PM »
Particle balls are still resin enhanced.   

bowler100

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Re: Partical balls question
« Reply #45 on: February 14, 2017, 02:56:54 PM »
I still throw the Morich Labyrinth, Morich Colossus (Black), Morich Colossus Supreme, Morich Weapon of Mass Bias and the Morich Hercules on today's conditions. They all provide smoother ball motions that allow me to keep my angles modest and more outward. Don't get me wrong, these balls (especially the Colossus Supreme) can still chew through heavy oil and provide a big sweeping arc. The two houses I bowl at have significant hang on shots swung to the outside boards and I have found that particle balls allow me to play outside where there is hang and get an early read on the gutter without wiggling or overreacting.