Author Topic: PBA/Bowlero Announcement (Read 30643 times)

Bowler19525 · « **on:** June 23, 2022, 04:46:25 PM »

Bowlero and the PBA announced today that they are forming essentially a competing league and tournament association to counter the USBC:

https://www.pba.com/2022/june/professional-bowlers-association-launch-league-bowler-certification-program

According to JR Raymond, this is a free association for all Bowlero league bowlers starting this fall.

Raises a few immediate questions.
1) Since all Bowlero league bowlers will be included, and the PBA/Bowlero association has their own rules, will USBC sanctioning no longer be a thing at Bowlero centers? Opens the door for conflicting rules if both will still apply.

2) as this rolls out to other centers, what will be the fee for non-Bowlero bowlers?

3) Will tournaments start acknowledging the Bowlero association average as a sanctioned average for those bowlers who may have a Bowlero association average and not a USBC average?

There is a lot of potential here, but seems like there are still a lot of unknowns...

ignitebowling · « **Reply #1 on:** June 23, 2022, 05:05:12 PM »

USBC posted as well pushing " the future of the sport " pretty hard. Im excited to see where this goes

bradl · « **Reply #2 on:** June 23, 2022, 06:12:45 PM »

I've already heard some rants on this with people saying that this is "the end of the USBC", "The USBC is done", "the USBC is over!", etc., as if this will take over everything that the USBC is doing and will be a better version of it.. I agree that this has promise, but we should all hold fire. Here's why.

All sports, especially if wanting to be Olympic sports, have to be run by a governing body. In the case of the US, the world body would be the WTBA (World Tenpin Bowling Association), followed by the governing body for each particular country. In our case in the US, it is the USBC. The USBC will still handle leagues, national tournaments, Collegiates, etc. that is not going to go away. That said, there is a defined line between corporate sponsorship of a governing body, and corporate OWNERSHIP of a governing body. Corporations can sponsor bowlers like they sponsor NBA teams, for example. But they can not own what would be the governing body of a sport for an entire country. That is why the USBC will not be going anywhere.
The corporate oversight on this is going to be huge, and may not work for some places. Right now, a lot of this looks to be geared towards adults, who are the biggest soapbox for the complaints about the USBC. That's fine, but what are they going to do about youth bowling? nothing mentioned so far as to how they would handle awards for them, no mention of how any scholarship money will be handled, if awarded, or anything of that type. If this is going to be going live for the 2022 season, none of this is in place, and they would have a little under 2 months to get that going. Because of that, the USBC won't be going anywhere.
Again, this shows promise, but a lot is lacking for this to signal "the end of the USBC", and I haven't even brought the PWBA in on this, especially since the USBC handles all of the older ABC, YABA, and WIBC tournaments. This program effectively leaves out the women's tour (which is run by the USBC), and all youth bowling. Because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere.
How will Bowlero handle USBC sanctioning this fall? If this is going live this coming fall season, what will happen if this new association will have rules that conflict with the USBC? The league couldn't do both and remain certified for either, especially if those rules regarding use of certain bowling balls are conflicting.

I'll go even further on this and mention what would happen if the only alleys in a given town are Bowlero alleys? If they go with this new association, then the bowlers in that Bowlero certified league would not have USBC certified averages to use in USBC tournaments, such as Nationals, state, regionals, city tournaments, etc. That contributes more to the confusion than solves anything.

Again, shows a lot of promise, but a lot is lacking that I don't think will be ready for the fall. More than that, this is all just more shade thrown at the USBC, which the PBA has bigger issues to deal with.

BL.

Adrenaline · « **Reply #3 on:** June 23, 2022, 06:23:46 PM »

Just when the LIV talk was calming down on the golf forums, now my bowling forums are going to be debating competing sanctions too? I'm already exhausted lol.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #4 on:** June 23, 2022, 06:39:57 PM »

Olympic bowling is an illusion.

milorafferty · « **Reply #5 on:** June 23, 2022, 08:24:16 PM »

Bowlero and PBA? Isn't that redundant?

Bowls 300s · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2022, 11:14:37 PM »

Quote from: bradl on June 23, 2022, 06:12:45 PM

I've already heard some rants on this with people saying that this is "the end of the USBC", "The USBC is done", "the USBC is over!", etc., as if this will take over everything that the USBC is doing and will be a better version of it.. I agree that this has promise, but we should all hold fire. Here's why.

All sports, especially if wanting to be Olympic sports, have to be run by a governing body. In the case of the US, the world body would be the WTBA (World Tenpin Bowling Association), followed by the governing body for each particular country. In our case in the US, it is the USBC. The USBC will still handle leagues, national tournaments, Collegiates, etc. that is not going to go away. That said, there is a defined line between corporate sponsorship of a governing body, and corporate OWNERSHIP of a governing body. Corporations can sponsor bowlers like they sponsor NBA teams, for example. But they can not own what would be the governing body of a sport for an entire country. That is why the USBC will not be going anywhere.
The corporate oversight on this is going to be huge, and may not work for some places. Right now, a lot of this looks to be geared towards adults, who are the biggest soapbox for the complaints about the USBC. That's fine, but what are they going to do about youth bowling? nothing mentioned so far as to how they would handle awards for them, no mention of how any scholarship money will be handled, if awarded, or anything of that type. If this is going to be going live for the 2022 season, none of this is in place, and they would have a little under 2 months to get that going. Because of that, the USBC won't be going anywhere.
Again, this shows promise, but a lot is lacking for this to signal "the end of the USBC", and I haven't even brought the PWBA in on this, especially since the USBC handles all of the older ABC, YABA, and WIBC tournaments. This program effectively leaves out the women's tour (which is run by the USBC), and all youth bowling. Because of that, the USBC isn't going anywhere.
How will Bowlero handle USBC sanctioning this fall? If this is going live this coming fall season, what will happen if this new association will have rules that conflict with the USBC? The league couldn't do both and remain certified for either, especially if those rules regarding use of certain bowling balls are conflicting.

I'll go even further on this and mention what would happen if the only alleys in a given town are Bowlero alleys? If they go with this new association, then the bowlers in that Bowlero certified league would not have USBC certified averages to use in USBC tournaments, such as Nationals, state, regionals, city tournaments, etc. That contributes more to the confusion than solves anything.

Again, shows a lot of promise, but a lot is lacking that I don't think will be ready for the fall. More than that, this is all just more shade thrown at the USBC, which the PBA has bigger issues to deal with.

BL.

While I think this is all much ado about nothing, none of it shows promise.

Our governing body needs to step it and act the part. A governing body should be independant, above approach and protect the sports integrity. At this over the last 45 years they have been an epic failure.

Its time to get back in and check centers for specifications, tighten up the THS. Something they lacked the vision to do the second epoxy base coat hit. Every pattern ruling lead to a further failure and increased infated scoring in the 80s and its never been easier today.

Sport needs another Bill Taylor.

MI 2 AZ · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2022, 11:15:09 PM »

Does that mean that balls banned by USBC will be back in play?

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 24, 2022, 01:11:49 AM »

After reading the FAQ for the PBA/Bowlero league association and discussing this with other bowlers, we have the following takeaways:

1) All Bowlero league bowlers are included in this starting Fall 2022. No additional charge. What, if any, impact will this have on lineage.

2) Bonding is included in this program, which is a plus for all leagues that were previously not USBC sanctioned. HOWEVER, this new association has "new rules" and equipment specifications that previously non-sanctioned leagues may not have had to worry about. This will mostly affect senior leagues and the ultra casual "fun" leagues. People in those leagues may have to get used to following more structured rules again.

3) Bowlero leagues can choose to be USBC certified, or PBA League Experience certified but they cannot be both. It is one or the other. The FAQ specifically states that leagues can review the PBA League Bowler Certification program to determine what they want to do. This may cause issues with bowlers who bowl in USBC competitions at other houses, but rely on Bowlero centers for their USBC averages. No USBC sanctioning, no USBC average and those bowlers would be forced to enter USBC handicap tournaments with no average. This could make for some contentious league meetings this fall when leagues decide what they want to do. Will some bowlers threaten to walk away if a league chooses the PBA over USBC? Possibly.

4) The PBA League Bowler certified leagues will have a wide variety of lane patterns to choose from. This is interesting, although most leagues will probably want the easiest pattern. More competitive leagues may opt for a more challenging pattern.

5) We are guessing the equipment specifications will be much more relaxed than what the USBC has currently. Could we see a waiver for balance holes for one-handed bowlers and thumb holes for 2-handed/no thumb bowlers? No longer needing to use all holes during delivery? The use of ball cleaners during competition? Perhaps even changing surface during competition (perhaps between games...similar to what the PBA players do?) No more compliance with the USBC approved ball list?

6) We are guessing the new rules and equipment specifications will allow for the use of string pins in PBA League Bowler certified leagues. Bowlero wants string pins, and what better way to pave the way for them then to make them legal in your own association.

It makes sense that leagues can be either USBC or PBA, but not both. This new association is a direct competitor to the USBC. Will it take off? It certainly has potential. It will be interesting to see the USBC's reaction. I would imagine they will be quick to respond and at the very least make a statement that they will not recognize averages from other associations for use in USBC competitions.

Personally, it works for me. I do all of my bowling at a Bowlero, and rarely bowl in USBC sanctioned competitions at other houses. I bowl with other people that bowl at numerous houses. It would not really impact them either if our Bpwlero league chose to go the PBA League route as they would be covered for USBC sanctioning at the other houses.

I am really anxious to see the guidelines, new rules and equipment specifications to see what they have come up with. That will be the ultimate determination as to how much potential this association really has. I am guessing they will be very attractive to encourage as much participation as possible. The last thing Bowlero wants is to introduce a new association that no one will want to join even if it is free [for Bowlero bowlers]. They also will want to make sure it works out well so they can attract paying members in the future.

bradl · « **Reply #9 on:** June 24, 2022, 01:15:28 AM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on June 23, 2022, 06:39:57 PM

Olympic bowling is an illusion.

For now it may be, but that doesn't eliminate the need for the governing body, which the USBC is. But let's roll a bit further down this alley (all puns unintended).

We still have PABCON, World Cup, and all of the international tournaments to deal with that would require Team USA or Junior Team USA. Having a corporation decide the members that go there could be subject to bias, especially if a lesser competitor is selected over one that could give those teams an ample shot at winning, just because that lesser competitor is in this PBA certified association while the more competitive bowler isn't, through no fault of his own (no alley certified for them near where they live).

I can see where because the corporation runs their own certification, that if they became the organization that decides those participants while the USBC is still in existence, they'd pick from their own pool over what is best for the team. That would be a problem.

Quote from: MI 2 AZ on June 23, 2022, 11:15:09 PM

Does that mean that balls banned by USBC will be back in play?

That's part of the problem. If they allow them back, and a house is certified for both this association and the USBC, it will be up to the league to decide on which association they use. But that also leads back to my earlier issue of what the alley does for certification if the PBA association's rules and the USBC's rules come in to conflict. One would hav to give for the other, and that could mean a completely different set of heartburn for the league bowler.

Quote from: Bowls 300s on June 23, 2022, 11:14:37 PM

While I think this is all much ado about nothing, none of it shows promise.

Our governing body needs to step it and act the part. A governing body should be independant, above approach and protect the sports integrity. At this over the last 45 years they have been an epic failure.

Its time to get back in and check centers for specifications, tighten up the THS. Something they lacked the vision to do the second epoxy base coat hit. Every pattern ruling lead to a further failure and increased infated scoring in the 80s and its never been easier today.

Sport needs another Bill Taylor.

I agree in principle with what you're saying, but over the past 45 years, we didn't have a single governing body. ABC held sway for the men, the WIBC for the women, and the YABA for youth. We didn't have a single issue in the YABA, and I don't recall hearing of any issues for the WIBC, especially with the fact that they outlasted the ABC. I believe it was only because of consolidation that the WIBC and YABA folded into the USBC.

Yes, we need the governing body to act like it, and be everything it needs to be. We don't seem to see these types of problems up in Canada or Japan or S. Korea, or over in Europe, but we're having a problem here, and the PBA resulting in parting shots across the bow like we're in a bad episode of "Yo Momma" isn't helping things on either side.

Does the USBC need to step up? Absolutely. On paper, the PBA's idea does show some promise, with regards to what the USBC should be doing that the PBA is proposing to do. I think this is going to get a bit nastier before it gets better, so I'm hoping we see some semblance of maturity from both entities before the bowling community gets turned off of bowling completely.

BL.

bradl · « **Reply #10 on:** June 24, 2022, 01:22:14 AM »

Another thing.. is anyone catching the irony here that the company who owns these alleys has spent years and hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars to go the entire party/recreational bowling route and all but eliminate leagues, and the league bowler experience is now trying to create a league association to lure back who they willfully and all but forcibly pushed away?

I mean, going to opening at 4pm at some alleys, no youth leagues, pushing out pro shops, the entire lot.. and now they want them back? Are they missing something important, like, oh... I don't know.. REVENUE?

Or is it just me...

BL.

JessN16 · « **Reply #11 on:** June 24, 2022, 01:56:54 AM »

My thoughts on this ...

1) I'll start with the easiest topic: Olympics. I became an ABC league member in 1990 and Olympic bowling was being talked about then. It's now 2022. While pursuing Olympic status is admirable, the USBC's first responsibility is to take care of its donor members. That's what we all are; the USBC is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit and we are donors. We've been strung along by the IOC for at least the 32 years I've held a card, so I want the USBC to take care of more immediate concerns. Yes, Bowlero getting involved here complicates this greatly, especially if/when the USBC folds. But the Olympics are not in my personal top 10 concerns for bowling at the moment.

2) I've talked with a couple of people today directly, one of which is mentioned in one of the many articles/blog posts/videos. The USBC has about 800,000 members now, if that. In 2006, the number was more than 2 million. If you push that curve out, we're within 10 years maximum of seeing sanctioning dip below the 500k mark. From the people in the industry I've talked to, that's about the number where Bowlero and other recreation-first centers just quit listening to league bowlers, because we won't represent enough of the business anymore. Hence why I've been banging the drum for years that the USBC needed to have a growth strategy in adult leagues, and it really doesn't. It sees itself as an advocate for current card-carriers, not as a way to attract new bowlers. It has historically expected the BPAA to do that but they're both under the same roof now -- and Bowlero isn't a BPAA member anymore. I don't have to say "do the math" but I will anyway.

3) Bowlero is a publicly traded company, meaning its directors have a fiduciary, legal duty to act in the best interest of its investors. This is the point that makes me the most optimistic. Today's announcement obviously didn't just get thrown together over a weekend at the local lake. Someone at Bowlero has made the call that investing in league bowling is going to be a priority. And if they're going to go that route, they can't half-a** it and be in compliance with shareholder regs. This announcement is the gauntlet being thrown down at USBC's feet. So let's take a look at that ...

4) The current USBC leadership is ill-equipped for this kind of fight. It's just not that savvy at the very top. There is reason to think that if the Storm fiasco doesn't happen at the Masters, we're not even talking about this today. Essentially, for-profit companies have been regulated by a non-profit players' "union" for decades and meddling in the Motiv Jackal Carnage deal, certainly the Storm deal and maybe even the Purple Hammer thing, without clarity or openness, probably had a lot to do with the for-profit groups finally saying "no more." Someone has already noted that Bowlero is going to be getting into the ball certification process -- they hired a really talented guy (and former USBC tech guy at that) to oversee that and paid him to jump from a job he just took earlier this year. I think that speaks clearly to what's up here.

5) Jeff Richgels has an article on 11thFrame right now quoting Tom Clark, and openness and clarity comes up multiple times. Clark never comes right out and says "we're coming for you, USBC" but he quotes several specific issues that have been raised with the Open Championships format. Again, the gauntlet is down.

6) USBC can't keep up with Bowlero if this gets to be a money fight. And we don't yet know which side Storm, B7, Motiv, etc., to say nothing of lane bed manufacturers and the like, are going to support -- but I know which one I'd bet the money on. If Bowlero breaks off a third to half of the Open Championships player base, and about the same percentage of weekly league bowlers, all Bowlero has to do then is wait until the USBC pulls back. The primary goal of any nonprofit is self-survival in a period of changing mission. But if Bowlero plays its cards right, it will box the USBC in. The USBC is not the most cash-fluid entity in the world as is and has debts in Arlington.

7) Finally, I liken this whole thing to the CART-IRL split in open-wheel racing in the mid-90s. It took about a decade for it all to sort out, but it finally got there. The sport probably isn't big enough for both entities to survive. To answer the question of revenue from league bowler support services (pro shops, etc.) and youth bowling is that today's announcement reads like a sea change inside the Bowlero company. The USBC was never going to survive long-term on its current course; the only question was how long was it going to take to completely lose the limited relevance it has left. I choose to be optimistic that Bowlero -- at least at this point -- seems to have developed a coherent business plan to move heavy into the league business. The USBC will either have to step up its game significantly, or it will perish. I'd like to think league bowlers have a brighter future as the result of this competition for our dollars and time.

Jess

Bowls 300s · « **Reply #12 on:** June 24, 2022, 07:24:44 AM »

Quote from: bradl on June 24, 2022, 01:22:14 AM

Another thing.. is anyone catching the irony here that the company who owns these alleys has spent years and hundreds of thousands (or millions) of dollars to go the entire party/recreational bowling route and all but eliminate leagues, and the league bowler experience is now trying to create a league association to lure back who they willfully and all but forcibly pushed away?

I mean, going to opening at 4pm at some alleys, no youth leagues, pushing out pro shops, the entire lot.. and now they want them back? Are they missing something important, like, oh... I don't know.. REVENUE?

Or is it just me...

BL.

Exactly Brandl.

The company that did this and thinks building Bowlero Scottsdale with 56 foot lane beds and have "social clubs" was a good idea as opposed to adding 4 more feet and another "real center" to the ever declining lane beds across the country. We had 9k centers in 1980 and what? 3800 hundred now?.

Its so complictaded...

Call it the USBC but it just a rebranded ABC. When I shot my youth AJBC honor scores it was the ABC there the next day to check my center for compliance. Not YABA, Not the WIBC. It was the governing body set up by our sports founding fathers way back to bring equipment standardization to the game. For this I am protective of them. And this is so important and to have a non profit to act above approach.

Now comes along Bowlero whom wants to not be under a 90-100 year old governing body? That does not want to pay dues for USBC lane certification and pull 350 centers out and that contribution that helps support the fianancial health of an organization that overall has done a tremendous job for so so many decades. Its not just about the games rules, its about center and equipment certification above all and further developement of these thing. Its about not ending up bowling on string pinsetters and maintaing lane bed specifications. Its about not have high flat gutters and rounded edge boards so every scout flies out and every 7 -10 split is converted at the minimum.

Do we really want to loose 350 centers of sanctioned USBC leagues members not buying USBC cards? When we had 9 million ABC, AJBC, WIBC members as card holders in 1980 and now what a tick over 1 million? How many will we have to support the USBC when this debacle starts?

In the history of the sport the has the PBA had financial trouble? But we trust Bowlero to be above that?
In the history of the sport have Corporations that owned centers came and gone? But Bowlero is above this? Bowlero can do what Brunswick or AMF the oldest names in this sport could not or would not have considered doing?

Peeps really need to think threw before supporting an corporation that has been the biggest scourge ever to this game. A for profit that sure is motivated by that and only that and it seems to come at a time when USBC begins new physical center certifcations beginning in 2023.Go figure.

The PBA is a glorified tournament director and their events need to stay on USBC physical sactioned houses.

The BPAA needs to get back to their old ways as trade organization acting supported by every house to promote the sport.

The USBC needs to get back in and bring 75% of centers that cant pass certification up to par.

Bowlero needs to go away like most corpoations do eventually, they are not a Ford motor company. The remaining 3k centers need to get together and shot this red head ba$tard $tep child down before real damage is down. They have shown no signs of being able to convert a recreational player into any form of league player. Their managers last week worked at arby's and staff too. Their mechanics can't fix a leaking gear box, change a bad auto scorer keyboard, put end to ball and pin damage by properly maintaing ball and pin transfer systems, this would cost money.

That said, not in anyway attached to any of it.

Bowler19525 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 24, 2022, 08:31:13 AM »

Based on data from Bowlers Journal International, there are 5,000 bowling centers in the US. That means Bowlero currently owns less than 10% of the bowling centers in the United States. This new association has a long way to go before it really takes hold.

Bowlero left the BPAA at the end of 2021. That was one of the first major signals that they intended to go their own way. Bowlero is a corporation and is going to run their centers the way they want. They don't need the support or backing of the BPAA.

Bowlero's press release about the new association indicates that they have 180,000 league bowlers across all of their centers. Not all of those bowlers were USBC members as there are numerous Bowlero leagues that are non-sanctioned. Especially senior leagues, no-tap leagues, and other just-for-fun social leagues (food & drink leagues, etc.) This announcement is also Bowlero finally acknowledging the importance of these bowlers as weekly, repeat customers. It also only affects maybe 10% of the USBC's current sanctioned members. Again, not a lot initially.

Bowlero obviously sees the USBC as another roadblock to them in terms of running their centers as they wish. They most likely do not want to deal with the upcoming USBC lane certification program. They probably are tired of their league bowlers complaining about USBC rules and sanctioning. They most likely don't want to deal with the administrative hassles of submitting league data to the USBC (our Bowlero acts as the secretary for all leagues and has an employee dedicated to all associated activities.)

Their own association allows them to do it all themselves without any other organizations trying to dictate to them how they should be running their business. Their own rules, their own systems, their own business practices, their own employees.

For bowlers that want USBC involvement, they can seek that out. Most Bowlero customers will not care, will see the Bowlero/PBA association as a free perk, and will eventually pull away from the USBC. It will be a harder sell for non-Bowlero centers and will probably take years to take hold (if it ever does.)

milorafferty · « **Reply #14 on:** June 24, 2022, 10:11:49 AM »

I keep hearing the word "free" in relation to leagues of Bowlero centers. Nothing is free, in fact, if Bowlero didn't have a scheme in place to make money from this, it would not even be a consideration.

I suspect the cost to be a Bowlero/PBA association member will be much higher than the USBC membership. But you won't see it as it will be a "per game" cost instead of just buying a annual membership.

Author Topic: PBA/Bowlero Announcement (Read 30643 times)

Bowler19525

PBA/Bowlero Announcement

ignitebowling

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

bradl

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

Adrenaline

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

ignitebowling

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

milorafferty

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

Bowls 300s

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

MI 2 AZ

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

Bowler19525

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

bradl

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

bradl

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

JessN16

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

Bowls 300s

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

Bowler19525

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement

milorafferty

Re: PBA/Bowlero Announcement