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Author Topic: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards  (Read 13734 times)

Steven

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PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« on: May 07, 2003, 11:32:14 PM »
The differences in entrance standards between the the respective men's and women's organizations is interesting.

The men's PBA standards are as follows:

 
quote:
If you have an average of 200 or greater (over the last two 66 game minimum seasons), you are eligible to join the PBA and enter the top 5 percent of the nation's bowlers. If you bowl in an ABC/WIBC Sanctioned Sport League and average 190 you are also eligible to join.


Alternatively, the here are women's PWBA standards:

quote:
You are required to maintain a league average of 190 for national membership and 180 for regional membership, for at least 66 games, for two consecutive league seasons (or demonstrate the ability to perform at that level and show cause why you were unable to do so).  


In short, the PBA requires a 200 average. The PWBA standards are lower -- they require a 190 to bowl at the national level, and 180 at the regional level. Additionally, if a woman has achieved neither, she can petition for an exemption from average qualifications.

My feeling is that the PWBA's lower standards hurt the credibility of women's professional bowling. Theoretically, a women can go two years in league without getting a strike (much less a string), and qualify for the most prestigious organization available. There seems to be something wrong here.

There is some incredible talent in the PWBA, but weaker standards can only hurt the organization as a whole. The PWBA wants prize funds and television exposure equal to what the PBA has, but how can that happen when the organization maintains lesser standards?

I'd appreciate any thoughts.
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walker300

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2003, 02:42:07 PM »
I think a big part of the problem is the lack of entries for a PWBA event.  In order to pay out bigger prize funds, they need the entry fees.  They had a tournament here in our area (Latham, NY) and had 51 entries.  The PBA had one a few months later and had 120 or so entries. Just that alone causes less money in the womens game.  By lowering average standards, you encourage people to show up and bowl. The men dont need the entries nearly as much so the dont have to lower standards.
 
     I agree that it lowers the credibility of the womens tour, but if they didnt do it, They might not have a tour at all.  

     Thats just my opinion. Any responses are welcome.
WALKER
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seadrive

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2003, 02:52:17 PM »
I agree, Steven.  As far as encouraging local bowlers to prop up the prize fund, you could always let them bowl as guests, without requiring that they meet the membership average requirement.

It's no more likely that a woman who can't carry a 200 league average will knock off CDB, Kimbo and Wendy, than that a man who can't average 200 in league will beat WRW, Norm Duke and Chris Barnes on a professional-level shot.  To say otherwise is simply misleading.
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The Hose

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2003, 02:52:23 PM »
Why should it matter?  They should let everyone enter who wants to pay the entry fee.  Are not the best still going to be ones that make the show?  Let the donators donate.  Both the PBA and the PWBA are in need of money so let everyone enter who has the sac (or not) to enter.
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mumzie

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2003, 03:59:34 PM »
Michelle,
Do you want to take this one??? :-)
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mumzie

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2003, 06:56:15 PM »

I agree that just meeting the minimum standards lets a bowler know whether they are eligible to have a card. It says nothing about whether they're capable of actually competing or not. I think when looked at that way, a woman who can consistently average 190 is a better candidate for the national PWBA events than the guy who can average 200.

And I believe that if you bowl now as a guest in a regional, and want a check, you have to join, whether you meet the minimum criteria or not. I've heard (2nd hand - not positive it's true) that a guy here happened to get lucky on a pba shot (175 or so league average, just wanted to try to bowl the event), and cashed, so he had to buy his card to get the check...

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CoachJim

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2003, 07:43:58 PM »
If you want to donate your money go ahead and take that puny 200 average out there, Walter Ray needs a new boat. I you have hopes of making it out on tour you had better average 240 on a house shot or 220 on the sport shot, 220 and 210 for the women's tour. If you just want to challenge your self feel free to step up to the plate and take your swings, just be prepared to strike out quite a few times.
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Amigo2

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2003, 03:11:51 AM »
Entering avg. is not the problem with the PWBA. I believe that the first place check for the Queen's tournament in Reno was $14,000. The Queen's is one of the most prestigous tournaments for the women and it only pays 14k! If you follow the PWBA and watch the prize fund payoffs you'll quickly realize why the PWBA is in trouble.

The PWBA needs to reinvent itself with some creative financing and promotion. I watch every PWBA telecast and I have bowled in several of their ProAms. The ladies are great athletes and are very attentive to the fans, they are a pleasure to be around and follow during a tournament.

There must be an incentive to bring more talent to the pro ranks. The love of the game is not enough to motivate people to leave families, sleep in motels & motor homes, snack bar food in bowling centers, financial insecurity ( and if you do cash it's not always enough to cover expenses), sponsors that want results. I believe that most of the tournament pay to 24th place.  

Throwing money towards any problem never solves the problem. Finance problems and a program that's become rather stale seems to be the norm for the PWBA.

Amigo

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scruffy weasel

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2003, 04:40:27 AM »
amigo, your right, alot of womens sports are in trouble, not just bowling, the wnba has takes huge losses every year its been in business, and the players were holding out for more money??!! ultimately pro athletes in any sport are really just walking billboards, the more products they can move the higher they can get paid although the athlete is there for the competition, the guys that pay his salary are just trying to sell products, women athletes just dont move as much product, personally i dont like to watch womens bowling, or any other womens sport for that matter,im not really sure why, never thought about it, but i just dont..ill watch any mens sport thats on though... as far as womens bowling goes i think getting rid of the skirts would be a nice place to start, well, kim adler can keep her skirt...
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AdrianS

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2003, 05:24:19 AM »
Remember too, some WNBA players were making more coin in the old ABL and now WNBA franchises are folding, ouch! Back to the bowling part of this thread. I feel it has more to do with a number on a leauge standing sheet, what the person has inside as far as desire , dedication and of course the 3rd d discipline, being 2 d's short(the last 2, not practicing much has a lot to do with that) keeps me well away from the pro level(although i can finish in $ in aussie events, big and small) Being far from the only Aussie player in the i would if i could category brings me to the Aussie who could do it and did and thats our very own Cara Honeychurch. I've watched Cara win the last 3 Australian Open titles by quite simply outbowling 100+ fields of our best male players. Quite a few who have 210+ tourney averages and 220-230 leauge averages. Cara simply worked her butt off to get to this level and of course anyone who gets to that level is going to have a leauge av so far over 200 that it doesn't matter. Thats how you really get to be a pro. The average is just a very small part of it.
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Steven

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2003, 09:03:34 AM »
I understand the arguments of the benefits of the PBA/PWBA experience for the lower average bowler. Sometimes you don't know how far you have to improve until you give it a try.

However, I look at this as more of an integrity issue. In any endeavor (PWBA, PBA, or otherwise), once you go down the slippery slope of reducing standards to attract a broader audience, you eventually lose the authority to label yourself a premier organization. And nobody is fooled when this happens; the public slowly loses interest, sponsors disappear, and you have nothing left worth marketing.

I believe the PBA minimum of 200 is too low (it should be at least 210-215), but at least it passes the minimum sniff test. For a minimum credibility, the PWBA standards should at least be in line with the PBA. And I would go a step further and argue that maybe they should be even a little higher to prove to the bowling world that the PWBA is a serious professional organization that should be held in the same esteem as the PBA. The organization might shrink in the short run, but would be far more viable for the long haul.

What's wrong with this view?

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The Hose

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2003, 09:19:56 AM »
Kimbo, Do you really care that someone walks away with their ego shot?  Come on, we've all had our egos shot.  What would it do to the prize fund if you had an additional 50 entries per event?  How much is the entry in a PWBA event?  If it was 300 bucks, that would be 15 grand.  Wouldn't you like to see that added to every event?

The PWBA is hurting, why restrict the entries?  Same with the PBA, the requirements are a joke.  In my little 16 lane house, there would be 40 or 50 guys meet the requirements.  Could the compete? No.  Would they pay 400 buck for a chance?  I'd bet there are a few that would.

Steven, the best will still be on top, nobody cares that there were 100 toes that didn't have a chance.  Look at the Master's.  How many enteries did they have?  I'm sure guys like Nicanor loved to bowl it even though they didn't fair very well.  



Edited on 5/9/2003 9:21 AM
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Steven

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2003, 01:12:24 PM »
Hose: If I understand your position, you're saying that in the overall scheme of things, entries are more important than organization integrity. If so, I'd just like your opinion on the long term effects to the PBA/PWBA. Do you feel the relatively low standards will have an effect on the organizations?

Also, another question directed more toward the PWBA. How in the world do they justify requiring only a 180 average for their Regional tour? At that average, they're allowing bowlers in who can't necessarily make spares on a consistent basis. Heck, that's the minimum average we allow in our local scratch league, and even there, you rarely see anyone give it a go who is that low.

Maybe I'm being an idealist, but I still believe in standards and integrity. I believe that once you give up on those ideals, you're done in the long run. Yes, lowering standards may help get more entries in the short run, but it may turn out to a cancer later on.

Any additional thoughts would be appreciated.
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The Hose

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2003, 01:28:52 PM »
Steven, maybe I'm looking at a quick fix patch rather than the overall scheme of things.  I'm looking at revenue in the short term.  

Lets face it, 200 for men is a joke just as 180 is for women.  We could have thousands upon thousands in the PBA and PWBA at those standards.

There was a regional in Houston not long ago where a guy averaged 114!  Another guy average 120.  Sure it was a joke to watch those guys and it may have been distracting to the bowlers that crossed with them.  However, they paid the 225.00 entry fee and they were allowed to bowl.  

If I won a PBA event and make 50 or 60 grand, would I really care that 300 guys donated?  NO.  Does a PBA member look down on the Masters?

Can't we change the requirements at a later time?

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Steven

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Re: PBA/PWBA Membership Standards
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2003, 01:41:37 PM »
Hose: I guess your right. Standards and integrity don't mean much if the cost is no professional option at all.

I guess the minimum PWBA 180 just sticks in my gut. If an organization is going to call itself professional, there needs to be some standard, and 180 just doesn't cut it. I don't understand the PWBA essentially throwing minimum requirements out the door, but still wanting equal footing with the PBA.

And ultimately I don't understand anyone still at that level tricking themselves into believing they can be competitive. I'm a consistent 'hack' 220 and make money in local tournaments, but I have no illusions about where I would stand in a PBA Regional.

But having just said this, I'm going to give one a go    
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