BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: BowlingForDonuts on February 17, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
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Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't pull a Jackal Carnage and ban them all.
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Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.
It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.
Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal
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Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.
It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.
Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal
Good point. Time to go old school and test hardness again like polyester days. Thanks.
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Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.
It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.
Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal
Actually if memory serves me correctly. The Jackals were banned because the limit of differential of an undrilled ball was .060. An anonymous source contacted USBC and said that the balls were actually closer to .061 undrilled. When a random case of balls got tested; they came out to around .0608 which made them .0008 over the legal limit. As someone who worked for a distributor at the time; that is how I remember it going down as we had to pull on the inventory off the shelf and re-ship them back to Motiv.
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Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.
It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.
Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal
Actually if memory serves me correctly. The Jackals were banned because the limit of differential of an undrilled ball was .060. An anonymous source contacted USBC and said that the balls were actually closer to .061 undrilled. When a random case of balls got tested; they came out to around .0608 which made them .0008 over the legal limit. As someone who worked for a distributor at the time; that is how I remember it going down as we had to pull on the inventory off the shelf and re-ship them back to Motiv.
Correct. You can't test undrilled diff on a drilled ball, that's why all were banned. There was no way to separate the legal from the illegal.
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USBC has been testing for hardness already. One of my bowlers had a urethane ball pulled for being too soft. The irony is he only used it for ten pins
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Any word if the USBC is going to reach out to Brunswick on this? It is their problem now isn’t it since they purchased EBI?
Seems kinda tough to the bowlers who purchased balls that were supposedly in only to have them ruled otherwise later. Like with Motiv and the Jackals.
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I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...
and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.
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Uh-oh, I fear you might fire up the "Urethane doesn't mess up the pattern as much as everyone says" group.
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I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...
and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.
I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.
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I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...
and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.
I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.
^this. Unless you are screwing over teammates who cares? That said using urethane on house shot for most people is the road to lower scores so not a lot of sympathy for people that do that during league but no rule against it so their prerogative. Generally means easy wins for team not throwing urethane even if scores may dip some.
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I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...
and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.
I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.
That attitude in a tournament where there is some money on the line and big bracket pots will get you some serious grief. I have seen shouting matches (and worse) over it.
A urethane ball in a singles tournament .. OK that's cool. If you are scoring with it .... go for it.
In a doubles/team event .... all you are doing is killing the entire pair and taking everyone down with you because you don't care or are unable to play the lanes and break down the pair correctly.....and you will still shoot garbage scores either way and unintentionally destroy others chances. So please think twice before you whip out your urethane ball and shoot 570.
If you are on a short pattern, that is different. On a wall or longer stuff, there is NO REASON to use urethane unless the surface is beat or the backends are stupid....in that case more than one person would be using urethane and it would be helpful to throw it as it would create hold.
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I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...
and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.
I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.
That attitude in a tournament where there is some money on the line and big bracket pots will get you some serious grief. I have seen shouting matches (and worse) over it.
A urethane ball in a singles tournament .. OK that's cool. If you are scoring with it .... go for it.
In a doubles/team event .... all you are doing is killing the entire pair and taking everyone down with you because you don't care or are unable to play the lanes and break down the pair correctly.....and you will still shoot garbage scores either way and unintentionally destroy others chances. So please think twice before you whip out your urethane ball and shoot 570.
If you are on a short pattern, that is different. On a wall or longer stuff, there is NO REASON to use urethane unless the surface is beat or the backends are stupid....in that case more than one person would be using urethane and it would be helpful to throw it as it would create hold.
I'm really not worried about how much grief I get. Big money brackets? Really? I have ability to say that I was in a bracket a long while ago at a state tournament in Erie, PA where I shot what I thought was a safe 256 in the first round. Erie is a main point here because I was in the hometown of a couple guys with the last names of Learn and Machuga. Yeah, I got beat by Bob Learn Jr. in his hometown by 9 pins. Enter brackets at your own risk. In retrospect I should have asked for a copy of that bracket and asked Bob to sign it.
I can't remember the last time that I took urethane to a tournament much less used it and i have never intentionally tried to screw with another players line on the lane but the first time that i have someone scream at me for using a ball that is hurting their scores it will be the first time that i do it. See, at that point you are more worried about what I am doing than what you are doing.
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How is doing what you feel is the best option screwing someone else?
Yea, I get that in a tournament like the USBC Open Championships, you have to work together as a team if you want to have success as a team. But if I'm bowling in an event against other individual bowlers, I could give a rats ass what they think of my ball selection.
Not that I use urethane much myself, but I do see a lot of people who do and if I'm throwing the ball well, it doesn't matter.
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Although I agree with the premise that using urethane on most patterns is a bad ball choice for a majority of bowlers, I would have to stop short of blaming my scores (or lack thereof) on someone else's ball choice. There are plenty of ball choices (other than urethane), rev rates, parts of the lane being played that can have negative and positive effects on your scores, to only pick 1 scenario to complain about is very short sighted. I'll take a guy throwing urethane over a guy throwing 500 grit with a high rev rate who is left of me, unfortunately, those aren't "choices" we get to make when bowling, we take the changing environment and score the best we can. I'm sure you wouldn't yell at an 80 year old lady throwing plastic all over the lane, you would deal with the environment and make adjustments to combat the carry down.
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CLUELESS
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Although I agree with the premise that using urethane on most patterns is a bad ball choice for a majority of bowlers, I would have to stop short of blaming my scores (or lack thereof) on someone else's ball choice. There are plenty of ball choices (other than urethane), rev rates, parts of the lane being played that can have negative and positive effects on your scores, to only pick 1 scenario to complain about is very short sighted. I'll take a guy throwing urethane over a guy throwing 500 grit with a high rev rate who is left of me, unfortunately, those aren't "choices" we get to make when bowling, we take the changing environment and score the best we can. I'm sure you wouldn't yell at an 80 year old lady throwing plastic all over the lane, you would deal with the environment and make adjustments to combat the carry down.
I agree.
Anyone who is so worried about what someone else is throwing is already beaten. Play your shot and ball reaction and make adjustments accordingly.
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It has been my experience that the guy throwing urethane is more likely to ruin his own shot in the transition than to hurt an opponent
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Didn't Bill O'Neil just win a major using the new Hammer Redemption Solid? While others were using weaker balls and in some cases urethane? Rash and Prather also have won. Tournaments within the last month or so doing the something using aggressive reactive balls defeating guys that were using urethane if I am not mistaken.
My point not to offend anyone, but if you are worried about what the bowlers that are throwing urethane are doing maybe you are not as good as you all think you are. Personally I have been known to throw both aggressive reactive resin, urethane, and sometimes plastic as a first ball all In the same match. Depending on the pattern I am bowling on, but more importantly how I feel during that match physically. The 3rd and usually least important factor in which ball I use on my first shot of each frame is other bowlers. If you approch the match with the proper mind set. You can observe what the other bowlers are doing, and turn it around on them mess up their shot.😉 Focus on making good shots. Let the pins fall where they will.
Blaming the bowler that is throwing urethane is just an excuse for why you are not bowling as well as you like. If you are so worried about what someone else is throwing you have already lost before you begin. Again not to offend anyone, but packup your 💩💩 and go home or sit in the bar and drink a beer just dont get to drunk to drive.😎
As for the hardness of the purple hammers. That was something that hammer should have been aware of when they made the ball. As someone else pointed out already it is now Brunswick's issue to resolve.
Lastly do any of you old timers remember when reactive was new and all the bowlers that loved urethane were bitching? I guess what goes around comes around eventually.😄😄
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Didn't Bill O'Neil just win a major using the new Hammer Redemption Solid? While others were using weaker balls and in some cases urethane? Rash and Prather also have won. Tournaments within the last month or so doing the something using aggressive reactive balls defeating guys that were using urethane if I am not mistaken.
My point not to offend anyone, but if you are worried about what the bowlers that are throwing urethane are doing maybe you are not as good as you all think you are. Personally I have been known to throw both aggressive reactive resin, urethane, and sometimes plastic as a first ball all In the same match. Depending on the pattern I am bowling on, but more importantly how I feel during that match physically. The 3rd and usually least important factor in which ball I use on my first shot of each frame is other bowlers. If you approch the match with the proper mind set. You can observe what the other bowlers are doing, and turn it around on them mess up their shot.😉 Focus on making good shots. Let the pins fall where they will.
Blaming the bowler that is throwing urethane is just an excuse for why you are not bowling as well as you like. If you are so worried about what someone else is throwing you have already lost before you begin. Again not to offend anyone, but packup your 💩💩 and go home or sit in the bar and drink a beer just dont get to drunk to drive.😎
As for the hardness of the purple hammers. That was something that hammer should have been aware of when they made the ball. As someone else pointed out already it is now Brunswick's issue to resolve.
Lastly do any of you old timers remember when reactive was new and all the bowlers that loved urethane were bitching? I guess what goes around comes around eventually.😄😄
I get the impression you are referring to a singles match... in that case do what you want.
In a team situation, it is undeniable that throwing a urethane ball will hose up the pattern for everyone.. including your team. Short oil is the exception to that rule, where the urethane ball can create hold.
Same thing can be said for the person who insists on playing too far inside, with too much ball/surface when moving further out with less ball would be the preferred play. Again .. in a singles situation, do what you want as there is some defense involved there.... but a team situation is a different animal.
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Didn't Bill O'Neil just win a major using the new Hammer Redemption Solid? While others were using weaker balls and in some cases urethane? Rash and Prather also have won. Tournaments within the last month or so doing the something using aggressive reactive balls defeating guys that were using urethane if I am not mistaken.
My point not to offend anyone, but if you are worried about what the bowlers that are throwing urethane are doing maybe you are not as good as you all think you are. Personally I have been known to throw both aggressive reactive resin, urethane, and sometimes plastic as a first ball all In the same match. Depending on the pattern I am bowling on, but more importantly how I feel during that match physically. The 3rd and usually least important factor in which ball I use on my first shot of each frame is other bowlers. If you approch the match with the proper mind set. You can observe what the other bowlers are doing, and turn it around on them mess up their shot.😉 Focus on making good shots. Let the pins fall where they will.
Blaming the bowler that is throwing urethane is just an excuse for why you are not bowling as well as you like. If you are so worried about what someone else is throwing you have already lost before you begin. Again not to offend anyone, but packup your 💩💩 and go home or sit in the bar and drink a beer just dont get to drunk to drive.😎
As for the hardness of the purple hammers. That was something that hammer should have been aware of when they made the ball. As someone else pointed out already it is now Brunswick's issue to resolve.
Lastly do any of you old timers remember when reactive was new and all the bowlers that loved urethane were bitching? I guess what goes around comes around eventually.😄😄
i'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, just curious as to how known you are for throwing reactive, urethane and plastic on the first ball in the same game....
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Didn't Bill O'Neil just win a major using the new Hammer Redemption Solid? While others were using weaker balls and in some cases urethane? Rash and Prather also have won. Tournaments within the last month or so doing the something using aggressive reactive balls defeating guys that were using urethane if I am not mistaken.
My point not to offend anyone, but if you are worried about what the bowlers that are throwing urethane are doing maybe you are not as good as you all think you are. Personally I have been known to throw both aggressive reactive resin, urethane, and sometimes plastic as a first ball all In the same match. Depending on the pattern I am bowling on, but more importantly how I feel during that match physically. The 3rd and usually least important factor in which ball I use on my first shot of each frame is other bowlers. If you approch the match with the proper mind set. You can observe what the other bowlers are doing, and turn it around on them mess up their shot.😉 Focus on making good shots. Let the pins fall where they will.
Blaming the bowler that is throwing urethane is just an excuse for why you are not bowling as well as you like. If you are so worried about what someone else is throwing you have already lost before you begin. Again not to offend anyone, but packup your 💩💩 and go home or sit in the bar and drink a beer just dont get to drunk to drive.😎
As for the hardness of the purple hammers. That was something that hammer should have been aware of when they made the ball. As someone else pointed out already it is now Brunswick's issue to resolve.
Lastly do any of you old timers remember when reactive was new and all the bowlers that loved urethane were bitching? I guess what goes around comes around eventually.😄😄
i'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying, just curious as to how known you are for throwing reactive, urethane and plastic on the first ball in the same game....
Only in the leagues I bowl in and maybe I didn't word that well. I should maybe wait same 3,game series. Usually. Although I have done it in same game once ot twice. I a lot of times I like to warm up with my plastic ball. But sometimes I miss shadow bowl so if the pattern is short enough like the wolf, ballard, or Cheetah I will bowl a frame or 2 with the plastic ball then one of 2 with the urethane. If I think I am loose enough and I have pushed the oil into the right spot I might try the reactive resin just to see if I can control it. Then decide which ball of the 3 I have that night is best that week.
I will also point out I am a left. But my PBA experience league is a 3 man 14 team league 5 of the teams have lefties some of them have more than one. So depending on which team I am bowling. If its against a lefty I think is cocky. I might throw all 3 one frame each just to F with the lefty on the other team. I am not honestly good enough that really matters rather I spend 3 or 4 frames in the first game either 1 figuring it out. Or 2 just having fun making the other leftiu think I am figuring it out. When really I am just F en with there minds. Its a game. Most of us are not pros. We are not bowling on TV for 100G we won't be taking home a 1 million dollar bonus if we shoot 300 on TV.
But every league has a group of bowling snobs that are not half as good as they think they are.
The lefty bowling snobs in particular are not used having to deal we their line being changed by another bowler. So its fun to screw with them.😄 I don't truly give a sh💩💩 Don't get me wrong I try to bowl my brst every week every shot rather it be league occasional tournament. Or practice with buddies in late night cosmic. But its just a game. The world is not going to end if I struggle some weeks.
Although I always have a nice inner smile if I am scoring well and getting in a bowling snobs head.
Aka a league bowler who ain't one quarter as good as they think they are.😄
Now tonight I might actually struggle I am pretty sure two.of 3 guys on the team I am playing tonight are lefty if they both show up that is a lot of traffic on the left side for me on my worst pair.
I know the one guy tends to play the same line as me.
I wouldn't consider either of these two guys bowling snobs though. We will just be in each others way all night. So it might be my old 1997 clear plastic ball most of the time with a little urethane most of the night. I will still try my hammer statement though. I am not expecting a good look tonight.
Anyway sorry I should have worded that post better.
on the nights I have the left side to myself especially if its 42 feet or longer its reactive with urethane staying in the bag or for cross lane spare attempts. Depending on the pattern and my timing being on or off. Plastic for selcted spares usually left corners depending on the pattern and me that week. I am streaky I can some nights do no wrong even the bad shots carry well.
Other nights I make what appear to be good shots, but can't carry for 💩💩
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TL;DR version don't buy into all the urethane shaming (actually dislike what charcoal hook in box do a lot more to the shot) but count me as on team weak reactives as that is what I score best with on house shots around here (especially one have league in).