Author Topic: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama (Read 7446 times)

BowlingForDonuts · « **on:** February 17, 2020, 11:53:28 AM »

Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't pull a Jackal Carnage and ban them all.

SVstar34 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 17, 2020, 12:02:29 PM »

Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on February 17, 2020, 11:53:28 AM

Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.

It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.

Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #2 on:** February 17, 2020, 12:03:37 PM »

Quote from: SVstar34 on February 17, 2020, 12:02:29 PM

Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on February 17, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.

It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.

Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal

Good point. Time to go old school and test hardness again like polyester days. Thanks.

TWOHAND834 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 17, 2020, 01:01:43 PM »

Quote from: SVstar34 on February 17, 2020, 12:02:29 PM

Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on February 17, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.

It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.

Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal

Actually if memory serves me correctly. The Jackals were banned because the limit of differential of an undrilled ball was .060. An anonymous source contacted USBC and said that the balls were actually closer to .061 undrilled. When a random case of balls got tested; they came out to around .0608 which made them .0008 over the legal limit. As someone who worked for a distributor at the time; that is how I remember it going down as we had to pull on the inventory off the shelf and re-ship them back to Motiv.

SVstar34 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 17, 2020, 01:09:42 PM »

Quote from: TWOHAND834 on February 17, 2020, 01:01:43 PM

Quote from: SVstar34 on February 17, 2020, 12:02:29 PM
Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on February 17, 2020, 11:53:28 AM
Guess I am hearing at least one of Buttruff's Purple Hammers didn't meet softness requirements. Hopefully USBC doesn't Jackal Ghost every one of them out there.

It doesn't look like they will. I saw USBC post that they'll have hardness testing for urethane balls in Reno. I think it's a little easier to test the hardness of a cover.

Jackals were banned because ball dynamics change once you drill, so no way to know if the ball started out as being illegal

Actually if memory serves me correctly. The Jackals were banned because the limit of differential of an undrilled ball was .060. An anonymous source contacted USBC and said that the balls were actually closer to .061 undrilled. When a random case of balls got tested; they came out to around .0608 which made them .0008 over the legal limit. As someone who worked for a distributor at the time; that is how I remember it going down as we had to pull on the inventory off the shelf and re-ship them back to Motiv.

Correct. You can't test undrilled diff on a drilled ball, that's why all were banned. There was no way to separate the legal from the illegal.

milorafferty · « **Reply #5 on:** February 17, 2020, 01:12:43 PM »

USBC has been testing for hardness already. One of my bowlers had a urethane ball pulled for being too soft. The irony is he only used it for ten pins

psycaz · « **Reply #6 on:** February 17, 2020, 08:20:40 PM »

Any word if the USBC is going to reach out to Brunswick on this? It is their problem now isnâ€™t it since they purchased EBI?

Seems kinda tough to the bowlers who purchased balls that were supposedly in only to have them ruled otherwise later. Like with Motiv and the Jackals.

BeerLeague · « **Reply #7 on:** February 18, 2020, 09:36:04 AM »

I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...

and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.

Cornerpin · « **Reply #8 on:** February 18, 2020, 01:11:21 PM »

Uh-oh, I fear you might fire up the "Urethane doesn't mess up the pattern as much as everyone says" group.

Skip H · « **Reply #9 on:** February 18, 2020, 01:49:02 PM »

Quote from: BeerLeague on February 18, 2020, 09:36:04 AM

I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...

and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.

I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #10 on:** February 18, 2020, 02:17:41 PM »

Quote from: Skip H on February 18, 2020, 01:49:02 PM

Quote from: BeerLeague on February 18, 2020, 09:36:04 AM
I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...

and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.

I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.

^this. Unless you are screwing over teammates who cares? That said using urethane on house shot for most people is the road to lower scores so not a lot of sympathy for people that do that during league but no rule against it so their prerogative. Generally means easy wins for team not throwing urethane even if scores may dip some.

BeerLeague · « **Reply #11 on:** February 19, 2020, 07:49:28 AM »

Quote from: Skip H on February 18, 2020, 01:49:02 PM

Quote from: BeerLeague on February 18, 2020, 09:36:04 AM
I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...

and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.

I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.

That attitude in a tournament where there is some money on the line and big bracket pots will get you some serious grief. I have seen shouting matches (and worse) over it.

A urethane ball in a singles tournament .. OK that's cool. If you are scoring with it .... go for it.

In a doubles/team event .... all you are doing is killing the entire pair and taking everyone down with you because you don't care or are unable to play the lanes and break down the pair correctly.....and you will still shoot garbage scores either way and unintentionally destroy others chances. So please think twice before you whip out your urethane ball and shoot 570.

If you are on a short pattern, that is different. On a wall or longer stuff, there is NO REASON to use urethane unless the surface is beat or the backends are stupid....in that case more than one person would be using urethane and it would be helpful to throw it as it would create hold.

Skip H · « **Reply #12 on:** February 19, 2020, 09:16:36 AM »

Quote from: BeerLeague on February 19, 2020, 07:49:28 AM

Quote from: Skip H on February 18, 2020, 01:49:02 PM
Quote from: BeerLeague on February 18, 2020, 09:36:04 AM
I just wish people with urethane in their arsenal would learn how to use it. This weekend in a doubles tourney, someone we were crossing with just had to get out their Black Hammer and shape it. --- needless to say the pattern became unplayable by the 3rd game. What could have be easy and high scoring turned into a trainwreck...

and to top it off, the urethane user and partner ends up shooting 1225 and getting drunk while our 1420 could have been well into the 1500's.

I don't mean to fire you up but honestly, the small amount of tournament bowling that I do I am much more worried about trying to use the ball that is going to work best for me than to worry about how my ball choices are going to hurt your scores. Now if I was with a competitive team and the whole team was on board with a particular game plan I would be fine with conforming to the team's plan. Other than that I am trying to beat you just as much as you are trying to beat me.

That attitude in a tournament where there is some money on the line and big bracket pots will get you some serious grief. I have seen shouting matches (and worse) over it.

A urethane ball in a singles tournament .. OK that's cool. If you are scoring with it .... go for it.

In a doubles/team event .... all you are doing is killing the entire pair and taking everyone down with you because you don't care or are unable to play the lanes and break down the pair correctly.....and you will still shoot garbage scores either way and unintentionally destroy others chances. So please think twice before you whip out your urethane ball and shoot 570.

If you are on a short pattern, that is different. On a wall or longer stuff, there is NO REASON to use urethane unless the surface is beat or the backends are stupid....in that case more than one person would be using urethane and it would be helpful to throw it as it would create hold.

I'm really not worried about how much grief I get. Big money brackets? Really? I have ability to say that I was in a bracket a long while ago at a state tournament in Erie, PA where I shot what I thought was a safe 256 in the first round. Erie is a main point here because I was in the hometown of a couple guys with the last names of Learn and Machuga. Yeah, I got beat by Bob Learn Jr. in his hometown by 9 pins. Enter brackets at your own risk. In retrospect I should have asked for a copy of that bracket and asked Bob to sign it.

I can't remember the last time that I took urethane to a tournament much less used it and i have never intentionally tried to screw with another players line on the lane but the first time that i have someone scream at me for using a ball that is hurting their scores it will be the first time that i do it. See, at that point you are more worried about what I am doing than what you are doing.

milorafferty · « **Reply #13 on:** February 19, 2020, 10:40:01 AM »

How is doing what you feel is the best option screwing someone else?

Yea, I get that in a tournament like the USBC Open Championships, you have to work together as a team if you want to have success as a team. But if I'm bowling in an event against other individual bowlers, I could give a rats ass what they think of my ball selection.

Not that I use urethane much myself, but I do see a lot of people who do and if I'm throwing the ball well, it doesn't matter.

mike300 · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2020, 11:37:03 AM »

Although I agree with the premise that using urethane on most patterns is a bad ball choice for a majority of bowlers, I would have to stop short of blaming my scores (or lack thereof) on someone else's ball choice. There are plenty of ball choices (other than urethane), rev rates, parts of the lane being played that can have negative and positive effects on your scores, to only pick 1 scenario to complain about is very short sighted. I'll take a guy throwing urethane over a guy throwing 500 grit with a high rev rate who is left of me, unfortunately, those aren't "choices" we get to make when bowling, we take the changing environment and score the best we can. I'm sure you wouldn't yell at an 80 year old lady throwing plastic all over the lane, you would deal with the environment and make adjustments to combat the carry down.

Author Topic: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama (Read 7446 times)

BowlingForDonuts

PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

SVstar34

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

BowlingForDonuts

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

TWOHAND834

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

SVstar34

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

milorafferty

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

psycaz

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

BeerLeague

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

Cornerpin

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Skip H

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

BowlingForDonuts

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

BeerLeague

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

Skip H

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

milorafferty

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama

mike300

Re: PBA/USBC Purple Hammer drama