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Author Topic: People astound me  (Read 4530 times)

Gizmo823

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People astound me
« on: December 27, 2013, 08:14:10 AM »
Was reading a testimonial about the Tri-Grip somewhere, and I have to say I'm extremely cynical about this kind of stuff, or rather people's responses and comments make my cynical, mostly because the majority of them have no critical thinking skills.  So this guy says that he's got pain in his hand so bad he almost quit bowling for good, but got refit with it.  Says he started out the next night with a ball with his old fit on it, and was in terrible pain, but switched to a Tri-Grip ball for the second and third game, and the pain completely disappeared and he had some big games. 

Now to me, this isn't praise for the Tri-Grip, it's identifying just how horrific his previous fit was.  You can't tell me that if you already have at least a decent fit, which is still leaving you in so much pain that you've considered quitting, that the Tri-Grip is so much better that it would magically cure you or completely fix the problem.  This is saying nothing about the Tri-Grip, I'm sure it's great, but the fact that several people replied to this guy in awe and going bonkers over having to find somebody that does the Tri-Grip now makes me cringe at the mental bankruptcy of the vast majority of the population these days.  Just because something is better than what you had doesn't mean much at all (again, nothing against the Tri-Grip, it's got a track record that speaks for itself, it's the logic or principle of the situation), and again, if you're in so much pain that you feel like you have to quit bowling, no fit, however good it is, will fix that.  This guy had to have had one of the worst fits on the planet. 

And on the other hand, why will bowlers fall hook, line, and sinker for some things, and be so resistant and almost aggressive and vehemently against other things?  Are they just in love with gimmicks and feeling smarter than everybody else?  "Well I have a Tri-Grip fit, all my layouts are dual angles, I even have a few MOtion hole drills."  Yeah, and you also average 170 because you don't know how to actually apply all that stuff, congratulations.  Have people lost the ability to critically examine certain things?  I filter everything I hear and read through several layers of logic, and obviously from some of my posts I may not come to the right conclusions, but I've at least made an attempt and have found an angle to start from.  I don't get it. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

HankScorpio

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2013, 08:29:55 AM »

Now to me, this isn't praise for the Tri-Grip, it's identifying just how horrific his previous fit was.

Why can't it be both? 

Also, if the tri grip repositions the ball in the hand like I've read, it's completely conceivable that the grip, for this bowler specifically, allows the bowler to hold the ball without hitting the pressure points that are causing his pain. 

We get it, you don't like tri grip.  Are you really going to bash everyone who has had a positive experience with it?

HankScorpio

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2013, 08:44:40 AM »
Also, I know exactly what post you are talking about. The guy is hardly ranting and raving about it, he just said it's worth trying.  He doesn't have tons of replies of people going bonkers as you said, he's gotten a reply from one person.  You got so worked up over that tiny thing that you had to come to another forum to bash him, when you could've simply asked him about his previous grip there.  Says more about your character than his intelligence.

MrNickRo

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2013, 09:16:09 AM »
Also, I know exactly what post you are talking about. The guy is hardly ranting and raving about it, he just said it's worth trying.  He doesn't have tons of replies of people going bonkers as you said, he's gotten a reply from one person.  You got so worked up over that tiny thing that you had to come to another forum to bash him, when you could've simply asked him about his previous grip there.  Says more about your character than his intelligence.

It's a pretty small world with this community.  Coming to a different outlet to rant/vent is not advised.

storm making it rain

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2013, 09:38:31 AM »
Also, I know exactly what post you are talking about. The guy is hardly ranting and raving about it, he just said it's worth trying.  He doesn't have tons of replies of people going bonkers as you said, he's gotten a reply from one person.  You got so worked up over that tiny thing that you had to come to another forum to bash him, when you could've simply asked him about his previous grip there.  Says more about your character than his intelligence.

That's what Gizmo does....Just like when he used to rant about people asking him questions about pro shop stuff when he was trying so hard to concentrate while bowling.

Long Gone Daddy

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2013, 09:49:36 AM »
Giz, you better hit the medicine cabinet and take your meds.  You're really reaching on this one and to bitch here about a thread on BBE shows it.  You bitched about what you got for Christmas and sounded like a spoiled petulant child.  Get a hold of yourself, man!
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

Gizmo823

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2013, 09:51:29 AM »
It could be both, I fully realize that, but that's not the first logical step, or at least not the only logical conclusion.  If one thing is simply better than something else, if that something else is a 1 on a scale of 1-10, 1 being the lowest, logic dictates that all that better thing has to be is a 2, it doesn't necessarily make it a 10. 

And in regards to the particular post, yes, I'm sure you know the one that set me off, but have you seen the different posts in different sections here that go for several pages about this topic?  I should have been more clear, but I was trying to be more concise than I usually am, not create a wild story (references: http://www.ballreviews.com/drilling-layouts/bill-hall-trigrip-fitting-system-t293096.0.html  http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/sigh-the-trigrip-t297848.0.html ).  I have a hard time believing something when I don't know the quality of the basis for comparison. 


Now to me, this isn't praise for the Tri-Grip, it's identifying just how horrific his previous fit was.

Why can't it be both? 

Also, if the tri grip repositions the ball in the hand like I've read, it's completely conceivable that the grip, for this bowler specifically, allows the bowler to hold the ball without hitting the pressure points that are causing his pain. 

We get it, you don't like tri grip.  Are you really going to bash everyone who has had a positive experience with it?
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

Gizmo823

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2013, 09:56:05 AM »
Missing the point . . everyone misses the point.  It's always concepts or reasoning that I complain about, I just use situations as examples.  I have no issue with the Tri-Grip, it's got a track record and was developed by somebody waaay smarter and waaay more experienced than I am, dogging or criticizing it would be rather ridiculous.  I have no issue with what I got or didn't get for Christmas, it's the idea that my wife has been dogging me for 6 years about giving her ideas, and when I do, I found it comical that she ignored them all.  I'm quite capable of buying the things that I want or need, and I'm more than capable of waiting patiently, I just find her Christmas concept amusing. 

Giz, you better hit the medicine cabinet and take your meds.  You're really reaching on this one and to bitch here about a thread on BBE shows it.  You bitched about what you got for Christmas and sounded like a spoiled petulant child.  Get a hold of yourself, man!
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

MrNickRo

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2013, 10:12:01 AM »
Intentions aside, your posts often come across as long winded rants. 

Steps:

1) Say something semi controversial
2) People call it out
3) You defend your intention
4) People slowly start to understand that intention
5) You come out a winner
6) 1)New post about THS

I don't mind because they are usually interesting topics. But, again, they often come off as elitist - whether you intend them to or not.

Long Gone Daddy

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2013, 10:30:48 AM »
Exactly.  This has been pointed out numerous times.
Long Gone also posts the honest truth which is why i respect him. He posts these things knowing some may not like it.

Mainzer

Gizmo823

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2013, 10:34:51 AM »
This is another problem I have, people take way too many things at face value.  Nobody stops and thinks about what I really mean, or what the point is, or what the concept of the whole deal is.  It's like weight lifting for sports, and coaches going into certain techniques or exercises to target certain muscle groups, and having kids sitting back and thinking, "well what does teaching me how to lift weights have to do with football?"  Well, a lot of things, and nothing all at the same time.  Or kids getting upset at learning things in school, "well I'm never going to use any of this, it's all worthless information."  Missing the point, it's brain exercise.  Some of it IS knowledge, and some of it is just expanding your brains or making them think a different way to serve a benefit that has absolutely nothing to do with the information. 

My deal isn't with the Tri-Grip, it's not with the post, it's one small tiny example of a much larger collective thought, attitude, or habitual constant, which was addressed in my final paragraph of the OP.  There's the trigger, the example, and then the concept or point.  Out of that whole OP, the last paragraph is the meat of it, or the only thing that mattered.  The idea that one little post created that big of a problem for me that I had to run over and get crazy over one post and one reply is dumb, yet nobody wonders why, it's just straight to the assumption that I'm crazy.  It's not, "well gee, that's a rather strong response to something so innocent, I wonder why the harsh reaction?" to which logic should take you to either a concept, understanding, or a question. 

It's the idea that a 150 average bowler will listen to a 150 average friend tell them about what ball they should get and how they should have it drilled, and defend that advice against anyone else.  Or 150 average bowlers coaching each other, but not listening to good experienced coaches, or people getting onto google and being convinced they have some illness or need some medication and going in and arguing with their doctors. 

I don't have a problem with the poster, and obviously there's nothing wrong with the Tri-Grip, so that's why I didn't respond to the post because I didn't want my point misconstrued to THAT person.  It's the idea that unqualified people feel increasingly more comfortable offering opinions about things.  This guy happens to be onto something good, so that's why I didn't reply.  But what about the guy that has videos on youtube showing people how to drill a ball yourself with a hand drill?  Some people think that's great and revolutionary, and won't listen to another soul about the obvious issues with it.  But it's the same IDEA behind both examples. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

HankScorpio

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2013, 10:38:35 AM »
Missing the point . . everyone misses the point.  It's always concepts or reasoning that I complain about, I just use situations as examples.  I have no issue with the Tri-Grip, it's got a track record and was developed by somebody waaay smarter and waaay more experienced than I am, dogging or criticizing it would be rather ridiculous.  I have no issue with what I got or didn't get for Christmas, it's the idea that my wife has been dogging me for 6 years about giving her ideas, and when I do, I found it comical that she ignored them all.  I'm quite capable of buying the things that I want or need, and I'm more than capable of waiting patiently, I just find her Christmas concept amusing. 

Giz, you better hit the medicine cabinet and take your meds.  You're really reaching on this one and to bitch here about a thread on BBE shows it.  You bitched about what you got for Christmas and sounded like a spoiled petulant child.  Get a hold of yourself, man!

If you don't hate tri grip, why are you so offended that someone posted that they had success with tri grip? If it's developed by someone way smarter and more experienced than you, as you said, you certainly shouldn't be surprised that people want to try it, right? What about that consumer reasoning do you disagree with? 

Gizmo823

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2013, 10:57:06 AM »
And I understand that, but it's extremely frustrating to have everything taken at face value or out of context.  I don't know how I'm supposed to explain something without an example, because people understand best by examples, but what happens in my posts is that people focus on the examples, but not the point.  My posts are all assembled the same.  Here's a story, here's the point of that story, but people still focus on the story instead of the point.  It's like a teacher teaching kids how to do addition.  "Here's an examples, here's 3 apples, now you add 4 apples, and what do you have?"  7.  "Ok, so now you do one, 2 oranges plus 3 oranges equals what?"  7.  "No, that's not right." But you just said the answer was 7.  Not the point of course, focusing too much on the example instead of the point. 

My posts are not passive, they aren't meant to be controversial for the sake of causing drama, I just like getting to the heart of touchy subjects, and that causes it's own drama.  Things frustrate me, and yes I rant, but I also ask several questions and get into debates.  The point is learning.  But what REALLY frustrates me is people overreacting and "attacking" me over something that isn't even the point!  If my conclusion or opinion is wrong, so be it!  I've recanted, retracted, and admitted when I'm wrong, but to get crazy about something that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about really pisses me off. 

The whole point of my OP: And on the other hand, why will bowlers fall hook, line, and sinker for some things, and be so resistant and almost aggressive and vehemently against other things?  Are they just in love with gimmicks and feeling smarter than everybody else?  "Well I have a Tri-Grip fit, all my layouts are dual angles, I even have a few MOtion hole drills."  Yeah, and you also average 170 because you don't know how to actually apply all that stuff, congratulations.  Have people lost the ability to critically examine certain things?  I filter everything I hear and read through several layers of logic, and obviously from some of my posts I may not come to the right conclusions, but I've at least made an attempt and have found an angle to start from.  I don't get it. 

What is being argued about: A post on BBE.  I also kind of view this forum as a safe haven to rant and be honest with a bunch of people that all understand each other.  I guess if I have to tone it down and get mechanical about it I'll just do that. 

Intentions aside, your posts often come across as long winded rants. 

Steps:

1) Say something semi controversial
2) People call it out
3) You defend your intention
4) People slowly start to understand that intention
5) You come out a winner
6) 1)New post about THS

I don't mind because they are usually interesting topics. But, again, they often come off as elitist - whether you intend them to or not.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

milorafferty

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2013, 11:01:54 AM »
Ah, I get it now. You got screwed by Physics again, right?  :o  ;D ;D

(Just teasing you Giz!)  8)

And I understand that, but it's extremely frustrating to have everything taken at face value or out of context.  I don't know how I'm supposed to explain something without an example, because people understand best by examples, but what happens in my posts is that people focus on the examples, but not the point.  My posts are all assembled the same.  Here's a story, here's the point of that story, but people still focus on the story instead of the point.  It's like a teacher teaching kids how to do addition.  "Here's an examples, here's 3 apples, now you add 4 apples, and what do you have?"  7.  "Ok, so now you do one, 2 oranges plus 3 oranges equals what?"  7.  "No, that's not right." But you just said the answer was 7.  Not the point of course, focusing too much on the example instead of the point. 

My posts are not passive, they aren't meant to be controversial for the sake of causing drama, I just like getting to the heart of touchy subjects, and that causes it's own drama.  Things frustrate me, and yes I rant, but I also ask several questions and get into debates.  The point is learning.  But what REALLY frustrates me is people overreacting and "attacking" me over something that isn't even the point!  If my conclusion or opinion is wrong, so be it!  I've recanted, retracted, and admitted when I'm wrong, but to get crazy about something that has absolutely nothing to do with what I'm talking about really pisses me off. 

The whole point of my OP: And on the other hand, why will bowlers fall hook, line, and sinker for some things, and be so resistant and almost aggressive and vehemently against other things?  Are they just in love with gimmicks and feeling smarter than everybody else?  "Well I have a Tri-Grip fit, all my layouts are dual angles, I even have a few MOtion hole drills."  Yeah, and you also average 170 because you don't know how to actually apply all that stuff, congratulations.  Have people lost the ability to critically examine certain things?  I filter everything I hear and read through several layers of logic, and obviously from some of my posts I may not come to the right conclusions, but I've at least made an attempt and have found an angle to start from.  I don't get it. 

What is being argued about: A post on BBE.  I also kind of view this forum as a safe haven to rant and be honest with a bunch of people that all understand each other.  I guess if I have to tone it down and get mechanical about it I'll just do that. 

Intentions aside, your posts often come across as long winded rants. 

Steps:

1) Say something semi controversial
2) People call it out
3) You defend your intention
4) People slowly start to understand that intention
5) You come out a winner
6) 1)New post about THS

I don't mind because they are usually interesting topics. But, again, they often come off as elitist - whether you intend them to or not.
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Gizmo823

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Re: People astound me
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 11:24:51 AM »
The story is an example, it is not the point.  There are also people who have "success" with a thumbhole that's 3 bit sizes too big, or people who have "success" with 1/2 reverse in their thumb on a 4 inch span, or people who have "success" drilling their balls at home with a hand drill.  This guy just happens to be recommending something good.  But it's the idea that just because someone likes something, or just because it's better than what they had, that they think it's automatically great for everyone else.  Next time it could be, "Wow, I found this great video on youtube that shows me how to drill my balls with a hand drill, it's so much cheaper!" 

So again, my point had ZERO to do with the face value of that specific situation, just like weightlifting doesn't teach you proper free throw shooting form.  I just cringe when unqualified, inexperienced people offer definitive opinions, because most of the time it's a mixed bag.  It hit a nerve because of how he went about it.  Instead of, "Wow, I had hand pain and got this done and it really works great for me, what's the story behind it or what is everyone else's experience with it?" it was straight to endorsement.  I've also heard things like, "well you need more reverse pitch, then you can grip it harder and it will still come off, it works great for me!" out of people talking to their friends, and then that friend comes in and I tell him that's not right.  Does he listen to me?  Of course not.  Or like I said with people going to the doctor.  They see a commercial for a medication, and they decide they have some of those symptoms and go to the doctor to get it.  The doctor tells them that medication isn't right for them, but do they believe him/her?  Nope.  All the sudden the doctor is a quack. 

And finally, I didn't reply to that post because he was recommending a good thing, I wasn't going to get in the way of that, and my next comments have nothing to do with that particular person, it just REMINDED me of so many others.  So many inexperienced bowlers feel free to offer definitive opinions on things or treat it like it's fact if it works for them, and that's one of the biggest fights the entire bowling industry has going on right now.  A once a week 150 average warrior is convinced they know the whole industry inside and out, much better than those that work it.  I've seen people screaming at our front desk people or the owners about issues they're having and how and when they think it should be "fixed," and won't listen to a thing they're told. 

Missing the point . . everyone misses the point.  It's always concepts or reasoning that I complain about, I just use situations as examples.  I have no issue with the Tri-Grip, it's got a track record and was developed by somebody waaay smarter and waaay more experienced than I am, dogging or criticizing it would be rather ridiculous.  I have no issue with what I got or didn't get for Christmas, it's the idea that my wife has been dogging me for 6 years about giving her ideas, and when I do, I found it comical that she ignored them all.  I'm quite capable of buying the things that I want or need, and I'm more than capable of waiting patiently, I just find her Christmas concept amusing. 

Giz, you better hit the medicine cabinet and take your meds.  You're really reaching on this one and to bitch here about a thread on BBE shows it.  You bitched about what you got for Christmas and sounded like a spoiled petulant child.  Get a hold of yourself, man!

If you don't hate tri grip, why are you so offended that someone posted that they had success with tri grip? If it's developed by someone way smarter and more experienced than you, as you said, you certainly shouldn't be surprised that people want to try it, right? What about that consumer reasoning do you disagree with?
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?