win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!  (Read 5952 times)

raiderh20boy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« on: October 25, 2011, 07:30:44 AM »
Using a PAI ball surface scanner...


Un Scientific results are in!!!


NIB Nano Pearl average grit 5195



NIB Nano Pearl C/D hand applied 5166



NIB Nano Pearl C/D spinner applied 5161



NO noticeable difference!!!



Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
 
Edited by raiderh20boy on 10/25/2011 at 3:37 PM
Logged

 

milorafferty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11171
  • I have a name, therefore no preferred pronouns.
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2011, 10:03:45 AM »
I stopped by raiderH2Oboy's shop on Friday to have him test the effect of Lane Masters cleaner. We used a freshly finished Motiv SX1 with a hand applied 4000 grit surface, no polish. 
 
Cleaner was sprayed on a microfiber towel, not directly on the ball itself.
 
RA before Lane Masters cleaner applied: 3872
RA after Lane Masters cleaner applied: 3669 
Logged
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

"If you don't stand for our flag, then don't expect me to give a damn about your feelings."

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24526
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 09:34:07 AM »
Considering there was no polish and considering there's no abrasive in LaneMastsers cleaner (as far as I know), that's an interesting result, but still not statistically significant. 

 

So unless somehow it changes the Ra value chemically, I'd say the test needs to run several more times to get standard deviations.
 



milorafferty wrote on 10/31/2011 10:03 AM:
I stopped by raiderH2Oboy's shop on Friday to have him test the effect of Lane Masters cleaner. We used a freshly finished Motiv SX1 with a hand applied 4000 grit surface, no polish. 

 

Cleaner was sprayed on a microfiber towel, not directly on the ball itself.

 

RA before Lane Masters cleaner applied: 3872

RA after Lane Masters cleaner applied: 3669 


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"A comedian says funny things. A comic says things funny."

 
Logged
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

raiderh20boy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 12:04:33 PM »
Charlest, I don't believe the the Ra value changed. The scanner "hits" approx 40,000 spots during the scan! Taking the ball off the scanner to work on and then putting back on is impossible to get exactly the same. It is also turned by hand during the scan so speed is very sensitive. I had a bowler have a 834 series during our summer "experience" league and we scanned the ball after. He signed up for a regional that was using the same pattern, we surfaced to match ( not exact of coures!) and he did AWESOME!  


Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
Logged

Strapper_Squared

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4231
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 03:38:19 PM »
 What the consequence of not using water with C&D?  Does it build up a film on the surface?

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
Logged
+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24526
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 10:20:37 PM »
I believe that is the reason. I think I remember seeing/feeling it like flim Simple Green leaves.
 
Strapper_Squared wrote on 11/1/2011 3:38 PM: What the consequence of not using water with C&D?  Does it build up a film on the surface?

+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+


"None are so blind as those who will not see."
"A comedian says funny things. A comic says things funny."

 
Logged
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

JayhawkBowling

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 80
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 11:25:02 PM »
We have found that using cleaner on a bowling ball will usually lower the estimated grit by 300 to 400.  The dirt and oil fill between the Ra peaks providing a smoother cover and preventing some oil absorption and contact with the lane.  Cleaner removes the dirt and oil between the Ra peaks leaving behind the true Ra of the bowling ball and allows the ball to achieve its maximum oil absorption rates.

 


milorafferty wrote on 10/31/2011 10:03 AM:
I stopped by raiderH2Oboy's shop on Friday to have him test the effect of Lane Masters cleaner. We used a freshly finished Motiv SX1 with a hand applied 4000 grit surface, no polish. 

 

Cleaner was sprayed on a microfiber towel, not directly on the ball itself.

 

RA before Lane Masters cleaner applied: 3872

RA after Lane Masters cleaner applied: 3669 



Russ Wilson

Pro Shop Manager

IBPSIA Vice President

Brunswick Regional Staff 

Jayhawk Bowling Supply

www.jayhawkbowling.com
 
Edited by JayhawkBowling on 11/1/2011 at 11:27 PM
Logged

AllAirForceTwice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2011, 11:33:53 AM »
So what's the difference in readings on one specific ball at 500 no polish and 4000 w/polish for example? Those "absolute highs and lows" will determine whether it's significant or not right?

 

I mean if 500 is 5500 and 4000 w/polish is 2700 (just throwing out numbers here) then there is a definitive ruler we can comparitively assess surface differences right?

 

We apply this logic in medicine btw...

 

Liking this discussion...


 
Edited by AllAirForceTwice on 11/2/2011 at 11:35 AM
Logged
Dave Ingraham, Major, USAF (Ret)

raiderh20boy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 01:33:47 PM »
AAFT

I am at the Raiders facility right now but this evening when I get to my shop i will run the 500 and scan to make sure as close to possible and then 4000 with polish on the same ball. What grit steps to 4000 would you like or just straight to 4000 until I get a reasonable scan at 4000. I have a Storm Surface factory in my shop so how long time wise on the polish. I usually put it at 2 min. and get a good shine.


Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
Logged

AllAirForceTwice

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 461
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 03:22:17 PM »
I suppose going through 1000, 2000, 4000, then the std polishing time would be appropriate... Anyone else disagree?

 

Sounds like this will be fun Raider... 



raiderh20boy wrote on 11/2/2011 1:33 PM:
AAFT


I am at the Raiders facility right now but this evening when I get to my shop i will run the 500 and scan to make sure as close to possible and then 4000 with polish on the same ball. What grit steps to 4000 would you like or just straight to 4000 until I get a reasonable scan at 4000. I have a Storm Surface factory in my shop so how long time wise on the polish. I usually put it at 2 min. and get a good shine.


Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!


 


 
 
Edited by AllAirForceTwice on 11/2/2011 at 3:24 PM
Logged
Dave Ingraham, Major, USAF (Ret)

raiderh20boy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1735
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2011, 07:58:09 PM »
For AAFT... ONCE AGAIN UNSCIENTIFIC!!!!!

OK here we go! Test ball was a Storm Rapid Fire solid shined.

All grit pads are NEWSiaair. Storm Surface Factory Pro. This machine is a "free spin" with the pressure paalied by the weight of the ball sitting on the pad. The Surface Factory Pro uses a LOT OF WATER flowing on the ball!!!!!!All cycle times were 2 minutes.

Before grit test the ball estimated Grit average was 4232

1st pad 500 ..average grit 1034 (probably needs a little longer to get a deeper (coarse) grit?

2nd pad 1000..average grit 1044 !!!!!!!!

3rd pad 2000 ..average grit 2322

4th pad 4000 ..3533 (Storm recomends 3 min for 4000!)

4000 + polish 3712

4000 + 4 min polish 4124

I followed the Storm suggestions for 1500 polished (I think all Storm /Roto Grip shined are that

500/2 min ...1000/1 min... polish for 2 min and got consistant grit averages around 5100 to 5300.


Use "IT" and BOWL UP A STORM!!
Logged

BowlOgre21

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2011, 01:07:47 PM »
What I found interesting was the jump in grit when polishing a ball that started at a lower grit. 

 

From the results, going step by step to 4000 and adding even 4 minutes of polish only changed the value from 3533 to 4124, a value change of 591. 

Using the "Storm 1500 polished" method and the earlier data, a ball that went 500, 1000, polish went from 1044 after the 1000 pad to between 5100 and 5300, a value change of over 4000. 

 

Using the excellent data gathered, a ball at "4000 Polished" would be stronger than a ball at "1500 Polished", assuming I'm reading the data correctly.  It would appear that polish over a low grit makes a much greater difference than polish over a higher grit.  Personally, thats news to me, and I enjoy the scientific side of bowling so this is a great discussion.


Logged

MI 2 AZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8156
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2015, 01:14:41 AM »
ttt for jls.

Logged
_________________________________________
Six decades of league bowling and still learning.

ABC/USBC Lifetime Member since Aug 1995.

trash heap

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2648
Re: Clean/Dull Unscientific results are in !!!!!!!!!!
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2015, 11:39:46 AM »
One from the archives.
Logged
Talkin' Trash!
Pages: [1]
« previous next »