What on the current market besides the obvious (Radical), did Mo and/or Phil create or influence during their time at the respective company?

What on the current market besides the obvious (Radical), did Mo and/or Phil create or influence during their time at the respective company?

I think from reading Mo's posts/articles he invented everything connected with a bowling ball.

He either invented it or if another company had a idea it was a old idea he had years ago or "bullpucky" "marketing" and wouldn't work until he improved it and fixed it. LOL

I know that I've been very impressed with everything they have done with Radical and look forward to the next great innovation from MO and Phil.

Nice write up Jazlar. I have to say I share a similar view point. Mine is more observation as I've only watched others roll their equipment where as you have hands on experience.

I would have liked to of seen Mo's cores with Motiv's covers. I think that could be some nice pieces.

I've thrown balls from many manufacturers. I've thrown many balls. I have loved most of the Radical balls I've bought since the summer. I watched Phil's video (as well as past ones, and Mo's). I highly respect both of them. I was on here talking about getting the Fix and putting motion hole on it, and being accused of falling for marketing... Ridiculous Pearl (with motion hole) is my go to ball right now. Below are my opinions.

Phil kept talking about producing the strongest balls on the market and everything else is considered medium. They keep pushing these perception vs. reality videos. Here's the problem: those shots are clearly set up so the radical balls are being thrown at optimal angles. Some videos you see other balls rolling too early. Some balls too late. The Radical ball? Just right. As Phil stated, they are pushing a certain spot down lane as a break point. And for me, this motion is a match for the most part. However....

My Guru Supreme had a hook/stop motion - and he kind of confirmed that yesterday with one comment. I own a Hammer Scandal and Motiv Jackal LE. Both balls outhook the Supreme. Scandal picks up earlier with a strong, smooth motion to the pocket. The LE gets further down the lane and is very continuous. Both balls provide more hook than the Supreme, as I stated, but they also provided better shapes. Yet the Guru Supreme received one of the highest ratings before the Cash, and other companies are far behind? Don't see it.

Yesterday, I finally had the Radical Fix drilled up. Went with the "big dog" layout - as Mo put it in some of his videos. Strong asymm with motion hole. I also had a Storm Code Black drilled up. Drilled it fairly aggressive for downlane motion. On the house shot, fresh, burnt and otherwise (based on last night on 2 different pairs), the balls are fairly comparable. Code Black gets a little more length, but they cover similar number of boards. I played my usual down and in with a little speed, I got left and played a little loft, and I got further left and reduced speed and let them roll. I'd say the Fix is a tad stronger overall, but not a ton. Yet we are to believe no one comes close to Radical?

I'm sure the Alpha Crux isn't far off from the Cash. Scandal, Jackal Ghost, No Rules, Maverick, etc., etc... all probably comparable, just might hook at different points on the lane. A true perception vs reality video would show different lines being played with different surfaces, rev rates, etc. And multiple patterns.

As I said in the opening, I respect Phil and Mo. I'm constantly telling others about the brilliance of Mo's scientific background when it comes to ball motion. Yet I will not sit here and fall for the hype. The Cash may very well be the strongest ball on the market, but to saying other companies produce medium balls in comparison? Blatant lie or arrogance. My medium hook Radical balls do not compare to the competition's aggressive balls. No, they compare to the competition's medium balls. And I would argue that other companies have as stronger, or stronger equipment available. Bowlers Journal is not the be all, end all. Other sites suggest what I'm saying.

Edit: I know I went off topic from the OP. This response was more addressing some things mentioned in some subsequent posts as well as what was said in the web stream yesterday. Just my honest opinions, and I do love some of the Radical balls I own - particularly the Ridiculous Pearl.

Good post JVS. But let me play devil's advocate here...

As for the perception versus reality, why wouldn't they wanna set the video up for the optimal strike line for the Radical ball? Second, if that strike line isn't achievable for competing balls, it proves their point. Even in the past vids, the competing balls in some cases still hit the pocket and some even struck, just may have not gone through the pins as well or left a weak 10. I think they are very fair videos, and purely based on hook alone, they prove the point...if I can stand on 30 and throw it out to 5 and one ball makes it back and the other ball doesn't, which one hooks more? And this is in a much more controlled environment than league night. These are typically balls with identical layouts either fresh out of the box or with same amount of games thrown by a robot. And while I respect you have personal experience with the balls, it sounds like some of the balls you're comparing may not even use the same layout, may have different surface prep or may even have more lane time than the other. There are so many variables to consider in an uncontrolled environment. Don't get me wrong, I don't doubt your results, and absolutely believe results will vary for each individual, but when all things are equal, the results are pretty clear. Still nice write up with your thoughts, I enjoyed reading it.

On edit: I'd be very interested to see other companies attempt a similar style video, but we have yet to see it...

I totally get why their perception vs reality videos are set how they are. They're marketing their balls. I have no problem with them. As I said, I enjoy several of the Radical balls I've purchased. I just find it a bit shady when they try to make all these other claims, such as it being the absolute truth. Different balls are made to hook in different spots of the lane. Of course they won't all match the Radical ball.

As for cheech's post, I define strength in terms of front to back ball motion, not side to side. From my own experiences with these balls (and I got out last night and threw more shots with the Fix, Code Black, Scandal, and Jackal LE - sold the Guru Supreme), the other balls are just as strong or stronger. I haven't thrown other Gurus besides the Supreme and Limited. I just got the Fix, and I also have a Xeno drilled with a strong double thumb layout. The Scandal and Jackal are stronger than the Radical balls.

I have not thrown the Fix on heavy oil and/or long patterns yet, but the Scandal and Jackal handled these conditions better than the Guru Supreme and Xeno. Not by a large margin, but still stronger. Yet Phil would have us believe that their high end balls are way stronger. Not in my tests.

With more throws last night, I'd say the Fix and Code Black are very close. The Fix needs more head oil, but also needs enough friction down lane to make the turn back. Given the two, it is a beast. The Code Black gets push through oil depletion and flies back at its break point. I even threw some shots two handed at the end of the night. Crazy motion. It still does well in some oil though. So I have these two balls very close in overall strength. But again, the Fix should be the clear winner according to Phil. Not seeing it.

Just my honest opinions, with absolutely no loyalty/bias towards any company or hatred towards any company. I buy way more balls than I need. It's part of my enjoyment with the sport, and allows me to fill my collecting urges.

It's too bad Radical outsourced their production to a company that makes their bowling balls in Mexico. Yes, Radical (along with Brunswick and DV8) are all made in Mexico.

Those original Star Trak's had a good reputation as being in central Ohio some of the light blue ones in the early 80's made there way onto ball returns down here when needed.

I'm not sure when Star Trak became Track, but I'm guessing somewhere around 1988-89 as Star Trak had put out the Equalizer which had a large over sized weight block sometime around 1988. A friend of mine had one and he was not too impressed with it. I crossed with Phil in a tournament in the Akron area at Fred Borden's place around the fall of 1989 and he was throwing a different black Equalizer with the Track Inc logo on it and not the Star Trak Equalizer. We talked a little after the block as Phil was a pretty avid tournament bowler back then and we spoke about the Track balls he had as I had started working in a pro shop and was curious. I am going to guess that he went west when Columbia bought Track Inc. somewhere around 1991 or 1992 as I think the Shark might have been their first release out of San Antonio. Of course in the mid 90's with the Nuke, Critical Mass, Code Red, and onward, Track Inc started to get a good reputation among high end players for pretty reliable motion and hard hitting equipment.

Originally Wayne Webb was involved with Dynothane as he threw their gear on TV in the mid 90's when they started out on tour. The stories were that Wayne might have been a limited owner or partner to begin with. I do not know if Phil was involved yet or if he came in after Wayne got out. A friend of mine drilled a Maximum Risk and thought it was flat awesome on longer/thicker oil. I am not sure when Phil came in with Dynothane but when he did get involved, Dynothane was a "player" out on tour as they had staffers and some big name free agents throwing their stuff for awhile. Eventually Dynothane started to become an unofficial brand for Storm and I believe that is when Phil either got phased out or decided on his own to move back to San Antonio and eventually get involved with 900 Global. 900 Global was a player when he was involved also. When he left 900 Global, they went stagnant until Storm got involved the last year or so. 900 is not a division of Storm like Roto Grip is, but I think that 900 gives Storm another factory to run equipment out of, plus the independents like AMF and Seismic can still get their stuff made out of and on the market.

Mo is a different story. From what I can find on him, the Sumo was his first real involvement or the first where his name was on peoples radar. I'm sure he was around prior to that but it is hard to find much more on him prior to the Sumo. AMF was always a different player in the industry as they never had a ball factory, other companies (mainly Ebonite) did the production work of their ideas. Mo was behind a couple of different ideas and balls. Mo was involved with the Sumo, Ninja's, XS (the white Que ball), and I believe the RPM's. I think around the mid to late 90's, Mo got involved with Faball. Mo's work with Faball was the Offset Hammers and eventually the 3D Offset Hammers and their offshoots. After the industry got particle crazy and Faball was not too interested in that technology, Mo moved on. Mo did some of Track's designs namely the Freak, Mutant, and most of the offshoots all the way to the Phenom (not 100% sure on that one). At some point Mo started up MoRich with some partners and put his ideas under his umbrella. MoRich's first few releases were poured by Columbia in San Antonio like the Colossus and Onslaught. Eventually Mo got Brunswick involved and that is when MoRich had some of their best sellers like the Ravage, Annihilation, and Awesome series.

What act of fate brought Phil and Mo together was probably set in motion long. long, ago. Event though I throw Utah balls, I pay attention to these two as I feel they are some old time ball motion guys who seem to always bring something interesting to the table.

Phil didn't start the original Track. The original Track was started in Ohio in basically a garage with a guy pouring balls by hand in the 80s? (Look for old balls called Star Trak). Columbia Industries bought Track and brought the company to San Antonio. Phil headed up the Track team and the division took off.

After some issues, Phil found himself out at Columbia (roughly 2001/2002?). Phil eventually bought Dynothane from Storm as Storm owned the rights but was doing nothing with the brand. Phil started to create cores and covers with Storm before moving the brand back to Columbia in 2005 I believe.

In 2007 Ebonite bought Columbia and everything under the Columbia umbrella, and in some sort of agreement, when Phil went back to Columbia, Dynothane became part of Columbia, so the Dynothane brand went to Ebonite in the purchase. This is when Phil eventually started 900 Global. Phil took that brand and did very well before leaving and started Radical with Mo.

This is by no means a full list of everything Phil has done. He deserves a big hand for everything he has done for the bowling industry.