Author Topic: Hitting the pocket too hard !! (Read 3647 times)

Southern_Info · « **on:** April 21, 2010, 11:45:36 PM »

Is there really a such thing as hitting the pocket too hard? People would tell me if the pins are leaving the pin deck and they are flying in the air, I'm hitting it too hard. They say the pins should stay low to the deck and should be push straight back; kind of like using a sweep to sweep debris. Can someone please enlightment me and shed light on this topic. TIA!
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2010 is the first time joining a league since 1999. Over a 10 year lay off and haven''t lost much of my game. This year currently HG-279, HS-733.

Southern_Info · « **Reply #16 on:** April 23, 2010, 08:14:19 AM »

Wow, Guys I'm amazed! Ya'll really cleared out a lot of the fog on this topic. Key points I really like to highlight from a few of the guys on this post:

1.Juggernaut:
In all things in life, there are factors that will optimize your chances and there are factors that will minimize them as well. What these factors are is debateable, but without doubt they exist.

To me, "hitting too hard" is an eye test kind of thing. By that, I mean if it looks to an experienced bowler that the pins are getting impacted so hard that they aren't following their maximum trajectory, you probably are "hitting them too hard". Pins flying up, instead of laterally, on impact may be one sign of this.

Physics tells us that E=Mc2. Basically, energy equals mass X speed, so the more speed an object has on impact, the more energy is released upon said impact. If the energy released is in excess of the optimum force needed, then yes, you are indeed "hitting them too hard".

2.Graaille
I remember Rob "Hambone" Stone and Randy talking about this in reference to Kelly Kulick on one of the telecasts. Randy said that a truly "pure" shot would drive all 10 back into the pit w/not a lot of flying pins. When you have a lot of flying pins/messengers - it means that it was a successful shot, but not the optimal shot.

3.MrPerfect
The only time a lot of speed seems to be a good thing is if I'm throwing weaker pieces of equipment which don't seem to transfer energy as well to the pins.

4.snowspike1
my solution was to give the ball more play ground (moved bp out farther). this burned off a little more speed.

5.Drrev2000
To bring back your carry percentage, you need to lay-off on any extra lift your giving, doing so will enable the core to rev more on it's own and retain more core energy for the pocket.

All of these insights and advices hit the head on the nail from different perspectives on this topic. Good Job everybody!

I really believe this will help me with the new USBC blue pattern from the red, white and blue oil patterns.
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2010 is the first time joining a league since 1999. Over a 10 year lay off and haven't lost much of my game. This year currently HG-279, HS-733.

earlthepearle · « **Reply #17 on:** April 28, 2010, 05:53:27 PM »

quote:
quote:
Of course you can hit the pocket too hard....

Ever leave a 9 pin? or the 4,9 split?

Thats what happens when you hit the pocket too hard for a righthander.....

Earl

Ahhh no....That''''s called too much entry angle. 4-9 is too much entry angle partnered up with hitting the 1-3 pocket too high.

To the OP, You can''''t hit the pocket too hard. You can hit the pocket too fast to cause the pins to fly up and over another pin though. Speed does not translate to better pin carry as some people who I bowl with on wednesday night seem to think, better pin carry is all in entry angle.
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Mike Zadler
"When in doubt, Pull out" - Rob Stone
Below, my stats from previous seasons:
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=552&suffix=12886

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Go tell that to Walter Ray Williams.....His entry to the pocket isnt that great, and his ball speed is usually maximum....He is the leader of tournaments won.

So now what?

Earl

Edited on 4/28/2010 5:53 PM

Edited on 4/28/2010 5:55 PM

Stan · « **Reply #18 on:** April 28, 2010, 06:09:32 PM »

Balls can drive too hard into the pocket. This is the main reason why bowlers are going to 15lb balls or lighter. As already stated, the ball has to hit the (right Handed) 1 3 5 9 for a perfect hit. If it does not deflect properly, you will leave back row pins. This can be caused by ball weioght and extremely dry backends.

JustRico · « **Reply #19 on:** April 30, 2010, 08:08:31 AM »

The one thing that everyone has missed here is that if the ball does not SLOW down, it will not respond properly when it transitions from oil to friction, thus creating bad pin carry.
If a bowler's ball speed does not match up with cover prep and amount of oil, you will see more single pin leaves. If you have too high of a ball speed for these variables, then the ball tends to hydro-plane in oil, causing weaker pin leaves. Then when the ball sees friction, it will tend to, due to not losing rotation, appear too strong or angular, leaving 4's, 8 & 9's, 4/9's and ring 10's.
Also a minimal amount of flare, thus having the oil rings staying on top of themselves, leaves too much oil on the surface of the ball, creating too much skid and not allowing the ball to slow down.
The original reason for bowler's going to 15lbers was deflection due to core construction. Now it is to create easier 'skid' through the front part of the lane. Deflection is still necessary for proper pin carry. If a bowling ball does not slow down as it travels down the lane, it will not carry consistantly.
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Formerly BrunsRico

The Stroke · « **Reply #20 on:** April 30, 2010, 08:11:27 AM »

quote:
The one thing that everyone has missed here is that if the ball does not SLOW down, it will not respond properly when it transitions from oil to friction, thus creating bad pin carry.
If a bowler's ball speed does not match up with cover prep and amount of oil, you will see more single pin leaves. If you have too high of a ball speed for these variables, then the ball tends to hydro-plane in oil, causing weaker pin leaves. Then when the ball sees friction, it will tend to, due to not losing rotation, appear too strong or angular, leaving 4's, 8 & 9's, 4/9's and ring 10's.
Also a minimal amount of flare, thus having the oil rings staying on top of themselves, leaves too much oil on the surface of the ball, creating too much skid and not allowing the ball to slow down.
The original reason for bowler's going to 15lbers was deflection due to core construction. Now it is to create easier 'skid' through the front part of the lane. Deflection is still necessary for proper pin carry. If a bowling ball does not slow down as it travels down the lane, it will not carry consistantly.
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Formerly BrunsRico

So to clarify, you are saying that its about the charactaristics of how the bowler throws the ball and not the ball in general, correct? Meaning no ball hits harder than the other and its about the bowler?

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Toodles

jbuzz31 · « **Reply #21 on:** April 30, 2010, 08:20:13 AM »

You most certainly can hit the pocket to hard. That's how you leave stone 9s for righties and stone 8s for lefties.
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Ive Eaten From The Insane Root That Imprisons Reason

JustRico · « **Reply #22 on:** April 30, 2010, 08:50:46 AM »

First of all, NO a ball does not hit too hard. A ball that impacts the pins at a high rate of speed will throw the pins around. A person 'throwing' a ball that is too light for them for example.
A ball that is entering the pins at a strong angle, with little to no deflection, leaves 8's and 9's. That is angularity or the ball missing that pin while it is entering the pin deck. If a ball hit too hard it will break the pins.
The Stroke
It is not only the bowlers but the equipment being used. If the cover prep, primarily, does not match up with the bowler's ball speed & rev rate, as well as amount of oil on the lane, along with length of pattern and how much friction there is, then the bowling ball will not or does not slow down properly to allow the ball to react or respond correctly, to allow the ball to strike.
That is why surface is generally the easiest to adjust, to enhance proper ball carry. Surface allows the ball to speed up or slow down as the ball encounters the lane and what is on it, i.e. oil or friction.

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Formerly BrunsRico

The Stroke · « **Reply #23 on:** April 30, 2010, 08:57:23 AM »

Understood Rico.

So now can we all stop reviewing balls and saying "This ball hits like a truck"?
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Toodles

JustRico · « **Reply #24 on:** April 30, 2010, 09:04:06 AM »

No

Unfortunately a bowler's perception over rides ones logic.
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Formerly BrunsRico

« **Reply #25 on:** April 30, 2010, 10:15:00 AM »

Logic?

Let's not start using THAT word again...

EVERY one of my bowling balls enters the pocket with precise amounts of speed, rotation, and entry angle. And they all hit like a truck because of their core design... As long as someone else throws them!

By the way, I'm enjoying the topic, so keep up the responses.

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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2010, 09:08:07 AM »

quote:
this can happen when your ball speed is too high.

its not really something that you need to change. If you are ball speed to rev rate matched then you have really good chance at scoring well and matching up to the lanes. but just keep in mind that a lot of ball speed can make a pin jump over other pins.

+1. If you have excess speed, pins just do not have enough time to mix well, and they might even splatter upwards instead of rolling low. This is less effective concerning chances for a strike.

Beyond that, make sure the ball just enters its final roll phase just before it enters the pins - this is the moment of maximum energy you can apply through the ball's construction and given condition - but you still have to have a sound revs/speed ratio and an entry angle of about ~6Â°, so the ball rolls through the pin deck and starts a good pin mix.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section

ToddM · « **Reply #27 on:** May 03, 2010, 10:53:53 AM »

notclay,

tell roger marcotte that obi says hey and to practice on them spares. lol

« **Reply #28 on:** May 03, 2010, 11:35:55 AM »

Todd,

I will deliver the message, although he'll probably already know it...

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Lane Carter, Strike Zone Pro Shops - Salt Lake City, Utah
Brunswick Pro Shop Staff

www.brunswickbowling.com

The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.

Author Topic: Hitting the pocket too hard !! (Read 3647 times)

Southern_Info

Hitting the pocket too hard !!

Southern_Info

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

earlthepearle

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

Stan

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

JustRico

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

The Stroke

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

jbuzz31

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

JustRico

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

The Stroke

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

JustRico

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

dizzyfugu

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

ToddM

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!

Re: Hitting the pocket too hard !!