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Author Topic: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias  (Read 1263 times)

Moon57

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Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« on: January 14, 2009, 10:00:04 PM »
Does a pin-in asymmetrical ball have a mass bias?
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2009, 08:18:51 AM »
why wouldnt it ?
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Moon57

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2009, 08:51:09 AM »
I was reading that a pin in ball means the core is statically balanced on the pin axis of the ball. It would seem like this would negate any secondary weight imbalance.
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2009, 09:13:22 AM »
quote:
I was reading that a pin in ball means the core is statically balanced on the pin axis of the ball.


That's correct. A low pin distance means that the core is positioned in a very straight line under the pin.

quote:

It would seem like this would negate any secondary weight imbalance.


I might start a flame war again, but this is IMO only true for low MB balls - and the reason why a pin-in ball rolls more smoothly than a pin-out ball.
Balls with a strong MB have a relevant secondary axis, the PSA (prefered spin axis), built-in by design of the core, which is not (or only little) affected by the CG placement. In symmetric balls, the tendency to migrate towards the PSA is created through the CG, and the forces rather small. A strong MB core just pushes this effect.
I think the only thing you could say about a strong MB/pin-in ball is that it might be a tad smoother at the breakpoint, but I'd say that these are rather academic differences you coudl only tell if you play 2 balls side by side.
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2009, 10:10:31 AM »
quote:
I was reading that a pin in ball means the core is statically balanced on the pin axis of the ball. It would seem like this would negate any secondary weight imbalance.
.


Who said that the Mass Bias (Prefered Spin Axis) has weight?
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Moon57

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2009, 03:02:55 PM »
Mass = weight, bias = favoring. If you didn't move core weight around in the ball you would never be able to create a mass bias.
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J_w73

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2009, 03:52:43 PM »
yeah.. mass-bias battle..
the PSA is different than Mass-bias. They are two different things. They can be at the same spot sometimes.  But as for rotogrip I have been told on the cell the RG is the spot where everthing or more mass is everywhere else but this spot.. this RG spot on the ball is the highest rg axis.

Still trying to figure out how the PSA position changes what the ball does.
I know what it does.. I want to know why and how.
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bluerrpilot

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2009, 06:05:31 PM »
quote:
Mass = weight, bias = favoring. If you didn't move core weight around in the ball you would never be able to create a mass bias.
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Moon
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So many questions, so little time but I'm having fun.



Mass does not equal weight.

If you weigh 200 pounds with both your arms at your sides, you wouldn’t weight more if both your arms are out in front of you.
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brett_dubbin

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2009, 06:13:37 PM »
Correct. Weight is the force of gravity on an object.
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Moon57

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Re: Pin in asymmetrical mass bias
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2009, 07:06:25 PM »
Online dictionary "Mass is the quantity of matter in a body weight is the comparative force with which it tends towards the center of the earth."

brett3tiger - You are correct, mass does not equal weight.

bluerrpilot - You are correct if the mass is stationary.  

Let me rephrase the question. Would a pin in asymmetrical ball react any different than a 4" pin asymmetrical ball on a determinator?
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Moon
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