Author Topic: Pin Up vs Pin Down (Read 12937 times)

MK · « **on:** May 21, 2011, 09:14:32 AM »

At the recomendation of the Storm guys, I recently drilled a Rotogrip Theory with the pin above the bridge (in the gripline) and the mass bias in a strong position. I beleive it worked out to be a 5 1/2 x 4 1/4 x 3 drill. This drill pattern me gave me great control, length, with a strong back end that continues all the way to the pin deck just like the Storm guys said it would. I love the drill pattern (strong but controlled).

Now my question is, what would the effect had been if I I drilled the ball with the pin below the bridge?

Stated another way, what effect does pin above the bridge versus pin below the bridge have on a ball

MK

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JustRico · « **Reply #1 on:** May 21, 2011, 05:20:28 PM »

It won't give you the same amount of length as well as a smoother back end. You would need to lower the pin approx 2+" to see a definate difference IMO

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

storm22 · « **Reply #2 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:09:47 PM »

Doesn't pin down, or in the palm, cause the ball to get into a roll earlier on the lane? This causes a more evenly rolled and arc break shape. Pin up causes the ball to push longer before begining its move. All my equipment is drilled pin up due to the amount of hand I put into the ball. If I drilled pin down, it'd start moving at the arrows and roll out. I'd never get the ball down the lane far enough to do anything

Balls in the bag and order they come out:
#1/2 Nano and Anarchy #3- Virtual Energy #4- Gravity Shift #5- Big Hit (spare and really dry)
#6- Teal Rhino Pro (oldie but a goodie)

JustRico · « **Reply #3 on:** May 21, 2011, 07:17:21 PM »

Sorry to contradict you but there is no way by merely moving the pin down the ball will start moving at the arrows and roll out...surface is what dictates length and how the ball slows down.

The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.

cheech · « **Reply #4 on:** May 21, 2011, 08:48:55 PM »

assuming you dont have an extreme PAP the pin above bridge vs pin below bridge would differ in the length and response to friction. using the dual angle technique, moving the pin directly down the centerline you would decrease the drill angle resulting in less length. decrease the pin to pap distance which would most likely move it closer to the PAP promoting retainment of axis rotation and increasing the VAL angle making it less sensitive to friction. this would result in an earlier and smoother ball motion as well as more flare potential. it would most likely be stronger overall especially in heavier oil

sacred heart university bowling, jr.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
everyone is born right handed, only the gifted overcome it

BBU · « **Reply #5 on:** May 21, 2011, 09:27:38 PM »

Pin Up: Length

Pin Down: Early roll, less length

Still depends where your CG is located

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charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** May 22, 2011, 06:35:41 AM »

I'm glad someone else has been "listening".

You can't just consider the moving up and down of the pin any more. We know better now. When you do that,you should change the angles as well or, in Storm jargon, move the pin closer or further from the VAL. This allows yo to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, so to speak.

cheech wrote on 5/21/2011 8:48 PM:assuming you dont have an extreme PAP the pin above bridge vs pin below bridge would differ in the length and response to friction. using the dual angle technique, moving the pin directly down the centerline you would decrease the drill angle resulting in less length. decrease the pin to pap distance which would most likely move it closer to the PAP promoting retainment of axis rotation and increasing the VAL angle making it less sensitive to friction. this would result in an earlier and smoother ball motion as well as more flare potential. it would most likely be stronger overall especially in heavier oil

sacred heart university bowling, jr.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
everyone is born right handed, only the gifted overcome it

"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BowlingChat.net

Russell · « **Reply #7 on:** May 22, 2011, 07:38:21 AM »

I'm going out on a limb and saying you're a "modern" cranker and crowbar it into the floor. Your track is probably right next to your fingers and anything pin down will roll all over your fingers. Most power players (good ones) prefer more stable drillings that don't go sideways when they sniff friction.

storm22 wrote on 5/21/2011 7:09 PM:Doesn't pin down, or in the palm, cause the ball to get into a roll earlier on the lane? This causes a more evenly rolled and arc break shape. Pin up causes the ball to push longer before begining its move. All my equipment is drilled pin up due to the amount of hand I put into the ball. If I drilled pin down, it'd start moving at the arrows and roll out. I'd never get the ball down the lane far enough to do anything

Balls in the bag and order they come out:
#1/2 Nano and Anarchy #3- Virtual Energy #4- Gravity Shift #5- Big Hit (spare and really dry)
#6- Teal Rhino Pro (oldie but a goodie)

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

MK · « **Reply #8 on:** May 22, 2011, 07:46:14 AM »

I am not a cranker that "crowbars" it into the floor. Any other questions?

hhhbs1 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 22, 2011, 08:15:49 AM »

MK,

Russell was not saying that to you. If you look he was responding to Storm22 saying anything he drills pin down hooks at the arrows and rolls out.

MK wrote on 5/22/2011 7:46 AM:
I am not a cranker that "crowbars" it into the floor. Any other questions?

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #10 on:** May 22, 2011, 08:57:57 AM »

I prefer "pin down drillings". I don't have the answer as to why they do, but I am a bowler with approx 15 mph speed ( give or take 1 mph ), revs on the low side of medium revs, not much hand, and for what ever reason, pins between 2-3 inches and "pin down & CG out drillings" seem to work best for me. Pin beside RF and/or a bit above and stacked drillings don't do well for me.

**********************************************************************

"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."

Brick

Russell · « **Reply #11 on:** May 22, 2011, 09:02:19 AM »

Didn't see a question in my post....nor did I realize your other screen name was "storm22"

MK wrote on 5/22/2011 7:46 AM:
I am not a cranker that "crowbars" it into the floor. Any other questions?

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

storm22 · « **Reply #12 on:** May 22, 2011, 09:33:16 AM »

I'm not sure what you mean by "Crowbar" the ball? Does that have to do with the way I release? I don't know exactly what to call myself. I used to crank, then calmed down a lot and now play what the lane will give me. I can play straight up 5 or move all the way left and play cross alley out to 2 and have it in the pocket. What I meant by my original statement is that I create a lot of roll on the ball. Balls that are drilled to be more aggressive earlier, don't work with me. I could change the cover, but why take an aggressive ball, drilled to start up early, and try to make it go long? In regards to turning left on friction, I don't usually have that problem. I have a balanced arsenal that allows me to adjust line first, then ball if I have to. I was originally making a statement based on what I've seen and what I've gathered. I'm not a ball driller nor do I plan on becoming one. When getting a ball or having one drilled I always seek the advice of my Pro shop. I was just making an observation.

Russell wrote on 5/22/2011 7:38 AM:
I'm going out on a limb and saying you're a "modern" cranker and crowbar it into the floor. Your track is probably right next to your fingers and anything pin down will roll all over your fingers. Most power players (good ones) prefer more stable drillings that don't go sideways when they sniff friction.

storm22 wrote on 5/21/2011 7:09 PM:Doesn't pin down, or in the palm, cause the ball to get into a roll earlier on the lane? This causes a more evenly rolled and arc break shape. Pin up causes the ball to push longer before begining its move. All my equipment is drilled pin up due to the amount of hand I put into the ball. If I drilled pin down, it'd start moving at the arrows and roll out. I'd never get the ball down the lane far enough to do anything

Balls in the bag and order they come out:
#1/2 Nano and Anarchy #3- Virtual Energy #4- Gravity Shift #5- Big Hit (spare and really dry)
#6- Teal Rhino Pro (oldie but a goodie)

Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"

Balls in the bag and order they come out:
#1/2 Nano and Anarchy #3- Virtual Energy #4- Gravity Shift #5- Big Hit (spare and really dry)
#6- Teal Rhino Pro (oldie but a goodie)

cheech · « **Reply #13 on:** May 22, 2011, 09:03:43 PM »

lol thanks charles. im glad im learning something over there. its a great site

charlest wrote on 5/22/2011 6:35 AM:I'm glad someone else has been "listening".

You can't just consider the moving up and down of the pin any more. We know better now. When you do that,you should change the angles as well or, in Storm jargon, move the pin closer or further from the VAL. This allows yo to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges, so to speak.
cheech wrote on 5/21/2011 8:48 PM:assuming you dont have an extreme PAP the pin above bridge vs pin below bridge would differ in the length and response to friction. using the dual angle technique, moving the pin directly down the centerline you would decrease the drill angle resulting in less length. decrease the pin to pap distance which would most likely move it closer to the PAP promoting retainment of axis rotation and increasing the VAL angle making it less sensitive to friction. this would result in an earlier and smoother ball motion as well as more flare potential. it would most likely be stronger overall especially in heavier oil

sacred heart university bowling, jr.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
everyone is born right handed, only the gifted overcome it

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
BowlingChat.net

sacred heart university bowling, jr.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
everyone is born right handed, only the gifted overcome it

dR3w · « **Reply #14 on:** May 23, 2011, 09:47:21 AM »

I don't see from a geometry point of view how moving the pin down along the grip centerline will decrease the drilling angle. For example if you drill the pin above the fingers, on the grip centerline, and the CG straight down the centerline (for ease of explanation), with a 0" up pap, you will have a drilling angle less than 90 degrees. If you move the pin straight down to the middle of the grip centerline, you will have an angle of 90 degrees. I just don't see how the drilling angle increases?

cheech wrote on 5/21/2011 8:48 PM:assuming you dont have an extreme PAP the pin above bridge vs pin below bridge would differ in the length and response to friction. using the dual angle technique, moving the pin directly down the centerline you would decrease the drill angle resulting in less length. decrease the pin to pap distance which would most likely move it closer to the PAP promoting retainment of axis rotation and increasing the VAL angle making it less sensitive to friction. this would result in an earlier and smoother ball motion as well as more flare potential. it would most likely be stronger overall especially in heavier oil

sacred heart university bowling, jr.
greatest accomplishment:shooting 603 and not shooting one 200 game(130,173,300)...lol
balls for sale in my profile
everyone is born right handed, only the gifted overcome it

dR3w

"This space for rent"

Edited by dR3w on 5/23/2011 at 9:48 AM

Author Topic: Pin Up vs Pin Down (Read 12937 times)

MK

Pin Up vs Pin Down

JustRico

Re: Pin Up vs Pin Down

storm22

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JustRico

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cheech

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BBU

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charlest

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Russell

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MK

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hhhbs1

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Brickguy221

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Russell

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storm22

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cheech

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dR3w

Re: Pin Up vs Pin Down