Author Topic: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay? (Read 3308 times)

trash heap · « **on:** March 02, 2009, 05:46:52 AM »

I have played in many card games in league. Most are per game. You get a Card for a Strike or Spare. Does this violate USBC Rules?

quote:
A member of USBC, while bowling in USBC competition, shall not participate or be involved in the operation of any gambling scheme which is in violation of any applicable law, where all or part of a score bowled in USBC play determines the winner.

Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath his/her ability are strictly prohibited.

Membership may be suspended or denied to anyone who is a participant or involved in the violation of this rule.

NOTE: Side competitions/brackets in leagues/tournaments where the participating bowlers pay a fee, optional or otherwise, and receive prizes for high game and/or series, with or without handicap, do not violate the rule because these involve merit pinfall based solely on the skill of the participant.

Someone threw this at me in league.

triggerman · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2009, 01:48:50 PM »

that rule is to deter sandbagging and bowlers throwing off to win a match based upon your bowling, Cards where you get more cards the better you bowl, I would not think would violate such rules
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Triggerman

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pocketsmasher51582 · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2009, 01:50:05 PM »

that is a crazy rule if ya ask me. I have been playing cards with my team(s) for the last couple years during all my league nights.

This rule is absolutely absurd.
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insidedrive · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2009, 01:52:40 PM »

No, I've brought this up to other officials before and we determined it is not against the rules.

It's no different than lucky strike or paying league dues for bowling. Because the poker game is played based on your personal ability to bowl strikes it is not illegal gambling. The outcome of the game or series does not determine a winner.

When you enter a tournament and pay a fee you are betting that you will bowl to the best of your ability and have the most pins in the end. Then you are awarded for placement. Playing cards says you are going to bowl to the best of your ability and if you do you get a card. First position in cards wins money.

If it were based on one team losing to another, someone bowling not to the best of their ability, or a negative portrayal of the sport, then it would be against regulation.

JessN16 · « **Reply #4 on:** March 02, 2009, 02:02:40 PM »

Going strictly by the letter of the law, cards are borderline because there's still chance involved (i.e., I get four strikes and draw four aces and you get 12 strikes yet draw 12 non-sequential, multi-suited cards, and I still beat you). However, I've never seen anyone get popped for it.

However, that rule as it is written invalidates all these 50/50 pots out there that people love to play because there is nothing to them but sheer luck. And that has actually come up before in some houses I've been in because there was question whether they violated state gaming laws.

Jess

textile18 · « **Reply #5 on:** March 02, 2009, 02:03:23 PM »

In some municipalities it is in fact illegal to play cards or to have 50-50s. I know one local house that post signs indicating as such. This would fall under the first part of the rule.

This makes the rule redundant but might be there to cover USBC from litigation by municipalities if a member were to be found in violation of the law/ordinance. This way USBC can say we also do not condone this activity...

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #6 on:** March 02, 2009, 02:04:19 PM »

As long as it doesn't violate any local laws. It should be ok.

As for this part of USBC.
"where all or part of a score bowled in USBC play determines the winner.

Contests or schemes which threaten the integrity of the game and/or entice a player to bowl beneath his/her ability are strictly prohibited."

Since the winner isn't determined by score and it doesn't entice you to beneath your ability it should be ok too.

The "threaten the integrity of the game" part is the only thing that could apply. If the card game delayed the game or arguments/fights started because of it that sort of thing.
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Gazoo · « **Reply #7 on:** March 02, 2009, 02:08:22 PM »

"is in violation of any applicable law"

In most states, playing cards for money(ie. poker) is only illegal gambling if the house is taking a percentage of the money being wagered which is not the case here.
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"I don't want to be remembered, I want to be forgotten"

azguy · « **Reply #8 on:** March 02, 2009, 02:16:51 PM »

Cards and 50/50 are not against any USBC rules....however, IF..big word, if they are against any local/state gaming laws, then, you have violated local laws, and one can make a case using the old...'actions unbecoming the league'...

In AZ, gaming laws are not super tough and IF, again, if some of the money goes to a 'non-profit' organization ( leagues ) then it is not a gaming problem because a non-profit organization can run fund raisers such as those.

IN AZ, you'd have to check your state/local laws about gaming or gambling.
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az guy aka: R & L Bowlers Pro
rlbowlerspro@cox.net

trash heap · « **Reply #9 on:** March 02, 2009, 02:46:32 PM »

Thanks for the replys everyone. Basically this guy got told something (powder on the shoe and under his table) and he didn't like it. So he is going to fire back with gambling in the Card games.

I could care less about the cards. I live in PA so I think we are not breaking any laws here. The dude is going to look like a fool if he says anything.

textile18 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:40:25 PM »

I'm in PA as well and the lanes I mentioned are 222 Dutch lanes. I also know they had trouble at Blue Ball Lanes when they had states there a couple years ago so you might want to check with your township, borough or city board before playing cards again.

9andaWiggle · « **Reply #11 on:** March 02, 2009, 04:49:33 PM »

quote:
Thanks for the replys everyone. Basically this guy got told something (powder on the shoe and under his table) and he didn't like it. So he is going to fire back with gambling in the Card games.

What a DOUCHEBAG. You should address him as Mr. Massengil for the rest of the season.

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Cyberspace Sheep Lover

no300tj · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2009, 05:40:03 PM »

I just received a phone call regarding this. My friend was bowling at a different bowling alley from where he said they were busted but given a warning. I don't know who did the busting. I'm guessing the local police. When I know more, I'll post again. T.J. Roanoke , VA
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whoever said size doesn't matter never had trouble with a thumbhole

J_w73 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:26:34 PM »

quote:
I just received a phone call regarding this. My friend was bowling at a different bowling alley from where he said they were busted but given a warning. I don't know who did the busting. I'm guessing the local police. When I know more, I'll post again. T.J. Roanoke , VA
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whoever said size doesn't matter never had trouble with a thumbhole

wow.. If it is police, that is pretty strict law enforcing.. atleast they gave a warning..

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16-17 mph,350 rpm,PAP 5 1/2 x 3/8up, HighGame 300 x 3, High Series 782
Book Average 215 / 205,PBA Xperience ave180

BrianCRX90 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2009, 06:48:49 PM »

Wow...ridiculous.

Actually I guess it could be illegal anywhere. Here in Texas they took away 8 Liner machines or whatever (slot machines that gave out tickets for winners) and you could use them to buy anything in the bowling alley from games to food to anything in the pro shop. Only thing you couldn't buy was alcohol. But then the rumor was some employees at a Wal Mart were cheating on one and then Texas shut them down. Texas also lost money from it.

Really, that is it. If the state isn't getting a share of it then they could shut it down. Even card games, brackets and 50-50.

Author Topic: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay? (Read 3308 times)

trash heap

Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

triggerman

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

pocketsmasher51582

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

insidedrive

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

JessN16

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

textile18

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

Aloarjr810

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

Gazoo

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

azguy

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

trash heap

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

textile18

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

9andaWiggle

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

no300tj

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

J_w73

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?

BrianCRX90

Re: Playing Cards during league - is it really okay?