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Author Topic: Please critique: ball rating system  (Read 3162 times)

Luke Rosdahl

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Please critique: ball rating system
« on: September 27, 2017, 08:00:14 AM »
I'm probably overthinking this, should probably do more of a traditional scale that's more easily understood, but I had an idea for a different kind of rating, one that takes into consideration more factors to give you a more accurate impression. 

The scale would be based on 0, and would include 3 categories: value, hook, and versatility.  Each category would have it's own rating, and then there would be a composite rating.  A composite rating of 0 would mean you're getting exactly what you expected, a positive number would indicate a better than expected result, while a negative number would indicate a worse than expected result, and the key here is that it is relative to design intent. 

Take a ball like the Code Red.  I'd give it a 0 for value because I think you're getting exactly what you pay for with it, I'd give it a -1 for hook because it's not as aggressive as most other options at the price point, but I'd give it a +3 for versatility because it works on virtually everything, for an aggregate rating of +2 meaning that despite the cost, I think it's a good buy.

Next, take something like the Show Off.  Value would be +2 because it's a ton of ball for the price point, Hook would be +3 for the same reason, and versatility would be a -3 because it needs a LOT of oil in the heads.  It's good at what it does, but takes a big hit because it's kind of one note.  Composite +2, because you're not going to get more ball for that price. 

Next, we talk about the love of my life, the Hustle Ink.  Value I would rate +3, what you get for the price just doesn't make sense.  Hook I'd put at +1 because it does hook more than the price point would suggest, but it's not a monster, and Versatility I'd put at +3 because it's good from any angle on a lot of conditions in a lot of situations and looks good for every style of bowler, for a composite score of +7. 

Then maybe we talk about the Timeless.  I'd give it a -1 for value because it underperforms at that price.  I'd also give it -1 for hook because at that price, it doesn't hook as much as you'd expect.  For versatility I'd also give it a -1 because it's more of a niche ball, it kind of requires a certain circumstance or bowler style or condition for it to shine, total of -3. 

Yeah it's all still subjective, but so is any rating system.  I also don't really like the overall whatever out of 10 rating, because if I apply that scale to my 4 picks above, I'd put the Code Red at a 9, the Hustle Ink at a 10, the Timeless at a 7, and the Show Off a 9, but for me that maybe overestimates the Code Red a bit despite how good it is because of the price point, but I can't justify dropping it to an 8 or lower because it's better than that.  That also way underestimates the Hustle Ink and rating that a "12 out of 10" is just stupid, just like people that give "110%."  That doesn't math.  Timeless fits about where I'd put it anyway, but I also don't like the Show Off rating because despite how much bang for your buck it is . . that's kind of just really what it is, it's a lot of hook for the price, doesn't really mean it's a good ball, but that's what the individualized ratings are for. 

Or is that too complicated for people to get?  Even if I explain all that every video, that's going to take up a lot of time, and how many are just going to fixate on the number and assume a traditional scale of 1-10 and say, "well he said it was a 2, so it must really be terrible."  I don't like to cater to or allow for ignorance or stupidity, but ignoring it is unrealistic.  I also realize that making something more specific also makes it more complicated, and while more information is good, if it's not simple enough to easily understand, you're kind of defeating the purpose.  Please give thoughts, suggestions, maybe better or more relevant categories, possibly an additional category or two, or just say to scrap the whole thing.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 08:08:19 AM by Luke Rosdahl »
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lilpossum1

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 08:32:15 AM »
The intent is good, and I like your way of thinking,, but I think it may be a bit more complicated than what most people would understand. Your system for "value versatility" is perfect. Hook... Not so much, and I think you will agree with my reasoning. There are two different versions of "hook" which could cause it to he misleading. You have boards covered, which most people consider hook, then you have oil handling capability. If you expand that to include both categories, with a system not based on 0 for those two, I think it would be better.

AlonzoHarris

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 08:53:14 AM »
I love rating systems because I love seeing statistical data to go with my emotional aspect of choosing equipment. Currently I take bowlingthismonth sites Total Hook, Length, Backend, and Torque rating, and bowlingball sites Perfect Scale number and devise a spreadsheet of equipment.

What throws me a bit on this is that, the Show Off ranks higher than the Code Red. While I get how the math was done, I feel like realistically, the Code Red should receive the higher praise. Maybe I'm being very subjective, but I've also watched what's being used in centers and tv lately, and I see the Code Red vastly more than the Show Off.

Please do continue to develop and eventually use some kind of system though, because as I think you've noticed, we value your opinion on this board.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 08:56:54 AM »
Yes, hook would be total hook or traction, which most people mistakenly assume means backend . . so yeah may rethink that a bit. 

The intent is good, and I like your way of thinking,, but I think it may be a bit more complicated than what most people would understand. Your system for "value versatility" is perfect. Hook... Not so much, and I think you will agree with my reasoning. There are two different versions of "hook" which could cause it to he misleading. You have boards covered, which most people consider hook, then you have oil handling capability. If you expand that to include both categories, with a system not based on 0 for those two, I think it would be better.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 09:01:33 AM »
Yeah and that's where I arrive on it too, but here's the thing, if the Code Red was in a lower price point like the Master line, the ratings change.  Versatility remains the same, value goes to +1, hook goes to 0 making it a +4 then instead of a +2.  The price is what drags it down a bit.  If the Show Off was in the HP3, the rating would lower, but it's a ton of hook for cheap, and that can't be ignored.  But no, comparing ball to ball, Code Red is easily superior, so I get your point.  But again, that's why the 3 categories.  Aggregate number may look the same, but when you look at how I got there, totally backwards.  Can't ignore the value of the Show Off, but the versatility of the Code Red makes it worth the price.  Hustle Ink would still be a great ball at a higher price point, but wouldn't represent as big of a deal as I think it is for how cheap they're selling it for. 

I love rating systems because I love seeing statistical data to go with my emotional aspect of choosing equipment. Currently I take bowlingthismonth sites Total Hook, Length, Backend, and Torque rating, and bowlingball sites Perfect Scale number and devise a spreadsheet of equipment.

What throws me a bit on this is that, the Show Off ranks higher than the Code Red. While I get how the math was done, I feel like realistically, the Code Red should receive the higher praise. Maybe I'm being very subjective, but I've also watched what's being used in centers and tv lately, and I see the Code Red vastly more than the Show Off.

Please do continue to develop and eventually use some kind of system though, because as I think you've noticed, we value your opinion on this board.
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LookingForALeftyWall

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 09:20:16 AM »
Despite being a stats/numbers guru and advocate in many cases, I prefer a reviewer using words instead of numbers when it comes to reviews. 

I know the use of a numbering system may make a review unique, but it doesn't add much value. It still as you have already pointed out, subjective.  You still need words to justify the numbers assigned. 

I think you've nailed the categories that are essential to consumers looking for information though.

AlonzoHarris

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 09:27:06 AM »
Yeah and that's where I arrive on it too, but here's the thing, if the Code Red was in a lower price point like the Master line, the ratings change.  Versatility remains the same, value goes to +1, hook goes to 0 making it a +4 then instead of a +2.  The price is what drags it down a bit.  If the Show Off was in the HP3, the rating would lower, but it's a ton of hook for cheap, and that can't be ignored.  But no, comparing ball to ball, Code Red is easily superior, so I get your point.  But again, that's why the 3 categories.  Aggregate number may look the same, but when you look at how I got there, totally backwards.  Can't ignore the value of the Show Off, but the versatility of the Code Red makes it worth the price.  Hustle Ink would still be a great ball at a higher price point, but wouldn't represent as big of a deal as I think it is for how cheap they're selling it for. 

I love rating systems because I love seeing statistical data to go with my emotional aspect of choosing equipment. Currently I take bowlingthismonth sites Total Hook, Length, Backend, and Torque rating, and bowlingball sites Perfect Scale number and devise a spreadsheet of equipment.

What throws me a bit on this is that, the Show Off ranks higher than the Code Red. While I get how the math was done, I feel like realistically, the Code Red should receive the higher praise. Maybe I'm being very subjective, but I've also watched what's being used in centers and tv lately, and I see the Code Red vastly more than the Show Off.

Please do continue to develop and eventually use some kind of system though, because as I think you've noticed, we value your opinion on this board.

Yep yep, I feel it. So while reading through your response, I thought of something. Sport shot and THS. What about having two ratings. Some balls are just not stars that shine on a THS but cash on Sport shots like the the IQ tour or Dare Devil Trick balls.

Maybe that's adding too much complexity but sounded kinda fun.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 09:29:14 AM »
Yeah but that's also relevant information . . Show Off virtually worthless on a house shot, could be really good on some sport . .

Yeah and that's where I arrive on it too, but here's the thing, if the Code Red was in a lower price point like the Master line, the ratings change.  Versatility remains the same, value goes to +1, hook goes to 0 making it a +4 then instead of a +2.  The price is what drags it down a bit.  If the Show Off was in the HP3, the rating would lower, but it's a ton of hook for cheap, and that can't be ignored.  But no, comparing ball to ball, Code Red is easily superior, so I get your point.  But again, that's why the 3 categories.  Aggregate number may look the same, but when you look at how I got there, totally backwards.  Can't ignore the value of the Show Off, but the versatility of the Code Red makes it worth the price.  Hustle Ink would still be a great ball at a higher price point, but wouldn't represent as big of a deal as I think it is for how cheap they're selling it for. 

I love rating systems because I love seeing statistical data to go with my emotional aspect of choosing equipment. Currently I take bowlingthismonth sites Total Hook, Length, Backend, and Torque rating, and bowlingball sites Perfect Scale number and devise a spreadsheet of equipment.

What throws me a bit on this is that, the Show Off ranks higher than the Code Red. While I get how the math was done, I feel like realistically, the Code Red should receive the higher praise. Maybe I'm being very subjective, but I've also watched what's being used in centers and tv lately, and I see the Code Red vastly more than the Show Off.

Please do continue to develop and eventually use some kind of system though, because as I think you've noticed, we value your opinion on this board.

Yep yep, I feel it. So while reading through your response, I thought of something. Sport shot and THS. What about having two ratings. Some balls are just not stars that shine on a THS but cash on Sport shots like the the IQ tour or Dare Devil Trick balls.

Maybe that's adding too much complexity but sounded kinda fun.
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AlonzoHarris

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 09:30:38 AM »
Despite being a stats/numbers guru and advocate in many cases, I prefer a reviewer using words instead of numbers when it comes to reviews. 

I know the use of a numbering system may make a review unique, but it doesn't add much value. It still as you have already pointed out, subjective.  You still need words to justify the numbers assigned. 

I think you've nailed the categories that are essential to consumers looking for information though.

It would definitely have to be in addition to the existing review format and not a replacement. I think subjectiveness holds the weight of the person passing the judgement. Luke has establish himself as what I, and I believe many others feel as a reliable source.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 09:31:00 AM »
Yeah, I'm definitely more of a words guy.  Naturally all reviews are subjective, but descriptions really aren't.  Different people might value different things differently and rate them different numbers, but if you ask someone to describe an IQ Tour, you're going to get the same description from everyone, not necessarily the same numbers, especially from me LOL. 

Despite being a stats/numbers guru and advocate in many cases, I prefer a reviewer using words instead of numbers when it comes to reviews. 

I know the use of a numbering system may make a review unique, but it doesn't add much value. It still as you have already pointed out, subjective.  You still need words to justify the numbers assigned. 

I think you've nailed the categories that are essential to consumers looking for information though.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2017, 09:38:11 AM »
I'm gonna use those categories though, sport and house, that's good stuff.  We were just having a debate about the Timeless on our staff page on Facebook, and I brought up the point that it's amazing how your perspective can determine the quality of a ball.  Apparently the Exist isn't doing well, so they've asked us to give it some extra buzz.  I love the Exist, but it's a dumpster fire on a house shot, it's one that I take it how it is, and it never sees the light of day unless the conditions are right.  The Timeless is one of those balls too though, it's condition and situation specific, but everyone wants it to be a daily driver, so most hate it.  I hated mine, but to be quite honest, there were a couple situations where it was absolute nails.  What if everyone treated it like the niche ball it was?  The Exist makes it kind of obvious, the Timeless really didn't. 

Despite being a stats/numbers guru and advocate in many cases, I prefer a reviewer using words instead of numbers when it comes to reviews. 

I know the use of a numbering system may make a review unique, but it doesn't add much value. It still as you have already pointed out, subjective.  You still need words to justify the numbers assigned. 

I think you've nailed the categories that are essential to consumers looking for information though.

It would definitely have to be in addition to the existing review format and not a replacement. I think subjectiveness holds the weight of the person passing the judgement. Luke has establish himself as what I, and I believe many others feel as a reliable source.
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Luke Rosdahl

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2017, 09:39:07 AM »
Maybe just do a pros and cons thing and leave numbers completely out of it?  Accomplishes the same thing without a confusing system and the math?
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milorafferty

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2017, 09:58:42 AM »
Seems like a lot of details for something that will be different for pretty much every bowler.

Perhaps you are overthinking it.  ;D
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AlonzoHarris

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2017, 10:09:59 AM »
Here is roughly a format I think would be interesting to dive into.

No Rules Exist:
Scale - Excellent(4) - Terrible(0)

Typical House Shot - 0
Pros:
-
-

Cons:
-
-

Sport - 3
Pros:
-
-

Cons:
-
-
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HackJandy

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Re: Please critique: ball rating system
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2017, 11:04:35 AM »
I just blow away the template and give my opinion like I would to a buddy.  May not be great impartial info like BJ but at least the entry is usually fairly short so people can skim past it quickly.  Not being on staff anywhere low motivation to go formal.
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