Author Topic: ball with short pin, a dog? (Read 2708 times)

Neptune66 · « **on:** September 22, 2009, 02:35:35 PM »

Used to love my Hammer Raw Anger when it was new, last year, but lately have been very erratic with it. When a friend of mine who is very knowledgeable about ball specs saw me struggling with it, he said the ball is a dog, and encouraged me to switch to another ball for the rest of my session---- ANY other ball.

He said it was a dog because it was hitting like a wet noodle, not so much because of the lack of decent scoring. and he appeares to have been right, as I was leaving all kinds of splits and weird pin combinations for SEVERAL games. Switched to an old Columbia Total Chaos ---an alledged victim of "tec death", and suddenly bowling was easy again.

The pin is only 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Could that make a difference? Or could it just be that I have lost some speed partly due to injury since about a year ago, and maybe don't match up as well as I once did with the Anger?

What exactly would consitute a "dog" as a bowling ball. Certain specs, or just the results or how the ball matches up with whoever is using it?

Russell · « **Reply #1 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:41:54 PM »

1.5 to 2 inch pin is fine....your friend is wrong. A pin less than 1/2 inch would be a problem....but a short pin and a good ball driller is just fine.
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Neptune66 · « **Reply #2 on:** September 22, 2009, 10:53:33 PM »

Oh... he didn't say it was because of the pin. He just said it was a dog because of the way it was working... or not. He also said it was not the pin, but I actually have two of the same ball, and the other one has a 4 inch pin, and seems to be more controllable or predictable, so I was wondering if that could make the difference. They are both drilled the same, same weight, and same surface as each other.

I just liked the ball so much last year that I wanted a 2nd one. Yet the 2nd one has not quite matched up with the first. Some good games, but ball is erratic ---at least in my hands.

DanH78 · « **Reply #3 on:** September 22, 2009, 11:01:33 PM »

quote:

I just liked the ball so much last year that I wanted a 2nd one. Yet the 2nd one has not quite matched up with the first. Some good games, but ball is erratic ---at least in my hands.

I think you're doing something different. A ball doesn't just go from great to "erratic". You might not notice it, but when you use that ball you've changed something from when you bought it a year ago. If your ball speed has changed, that could be a big part of it.
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Ragnar · « **Reply #4 on:** September 22, 2009, 11:04:03 PM »

Nothing wrong with a short pin. CAVEAT: if drilled to match you. One of my favorite layouts is a 1" pin, drilled 1x1x1 (pin-pap-cg)
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AngloBowler · « **Reply #5 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:50:48 AM »

Short pins tend to roll earlier, so if you're lacking oil in the heads, or slightly low on speed, the shorter pin equipment can roll out and leave you with all kind of ugliness. I've got a short pin ball, and I get on fine with it, it's just a case of knowing when to adjust (I find loft/speed adjustments match well with this kind of layout) and when to put it back in the bag...
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dizzyfugu · « **Reply #6 on:** September 23, 2009, 06:56:32 AM »

quote:

He said it was a dog because it was hitting like a wet noodle, not so much because of the lack of decent scoring. and he appeares to have been right, as I was leaving all kinds of splits and weird pin combinations for SEVERAL games. Switched to an old Columbia Total Chaos ---an alledged victim of "tec death", and suddenly bowling was easy again.

To me it sounds like simple user error: using the wrong ball (with an inproper layout for the situation) on the wrong condition, and insisting on "this ball HAS to work" instead of either adjusting or just bagging it.
The Anger is an oil ball, and with the short pin distance I'd assume that a rather rolly/early layout has been drilled. Without proper and long oil, the ball will simply lose its bite, thus hitting weak. But it is not the ball's or layout's "fault"...
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Neptune66 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 23, 2009, 07:17:01 AM »

Actually... my ball speed has dropped. At least some of the time.

Until my injury (developed some bursitus in my hip and some persistent tightness or inflamation in my thigh), I would be cruising at about 17mph, with low revs. Since the injury, my speed is at least 1-2mph slower at first. Eventually when my body loosens up, I return to normal speed, but by then the lanes are drying out.

So I agree that it is partly operator error (or at least change)...maybe even mostly. But of all the balls I have, this one seems to have taken the biggest drop in terms of predictability. It DOES remind me of a ball rolling out early. Maybe some more polish would help?

And I also acknowledge that sometimes it's just not the right condition and I should bag it, and I am stubborn about giving up on it. Tonight I am going to try it at the other house I bowl in, that is usually an oilier condition. Who knows? Over there, it may match up much better.

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #8 on:** September 23, 2009, 08:19:01 AM »

Yeah, try to hit it with some polish. At least, it is worth a try, since a surface change is the easiest thing to change a ball's reaction.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany

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charlest · « **Reply #9 on:** September 23, 2009, 10:31:59 AM »

It could be the ball speed.
Also could you have possibly changed your release enough to change your axis?
That would make the ball reaction not quite right also. But it would be huge.

More than likely, if you've been using this ball for a year,, it could very well be oil soaked. It's a dull ball (unless you've shined it), so it absorbs oil even faster. But even a shined ball absorbs oil. If you've never done an oil extraction, that could certainly help the ball's reaction, energy retention and hitting power.

Most strong resins, like the Anger, need an oil extraction every 100 games at the outside.

Short pins have the potential to be great balls, if drilled correctly. They are not ideal for everyone and on every ball. But they are not dogs.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Edited on 9/23/2009 10:47 AM

guffnuh · « **Reply #10 on:** September 24, 2009, 06:46:42 PM »

i have a brunswick fury with a 1/2 inch pin and shot a 776 with it so no, short pins dont make a difference.
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kmtproshop · « **Reply #11 on:** September 25, 2009, 08:49:31 AM »

Not too long ago, Brunswick ran a test on their computerized lanes using "throwbot". The purpose of the test was to compare 2 balls with identical pin locations, but with 2 different CG locations. Results showed little to no difference between the 2 balls. Therefore, short pin or long pin shouldn't make any difference as long as the pin is in the same spot. The real question is are they drilled identically.....ie span, pitch, balance hole, etc., or was the layout changed to accommodate USBC rules? The video used to be available on their website, but I don't see it on there anymore. If you're interested in it I have a copy.
Steve
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Author Topic: ball with short pin, a dog? (Read 2708 times)

Neptune66

ball with short pin, a dog?

Russell

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Neptune66

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DanH78

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Ragnar

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AngloBowler

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dizzyfugu

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Neptune66

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dizzyfugu

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charlest

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guffnuh

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kmtproshop

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